Seeking Definitive Non-Hesitating PC Configuration for F4 RV,OF....

[Wildcat]

Hey.  Me here, back again after a long hiatus.  The museum has been keeping me most busy.

Kudos.  Site looks awesome.

This fall I'm going to build a new system to support a 37" LCD monitor for some flavor of Falcon as yet to be determined.  A secondary system will be used to run FalconGuages or the equivalent for the center console and other toys.  If working MFD's happen (or have happened in my absence) they will find their way in there eventually.

OKAY!  Background outta da way.....here's my question:  Has ANYONE got a system that does not hesitate.  There are too many options out there to try to deduce what it is about F4 that causes those dang hangs.  If someone has figgered it out, or simply has a system that is NOT afflicted.....I'd like to hear from ya.  Fire a PM, post here, send up a smoke signal.  I ain't a millionaire, so I'm going to build ONE more system for this damn game.  Er....sim.  Yah, that's it!

Helpers??  Thanks!!!

 

PS:  I am poking through the PC guts subforum.  I posted here because I am focused on F4.  Moddies....move if you feel best.

[idekkers]

well, first of all, if you can wait till the end of the year - do.

both intel and AMD will have new prducts by then, so the ones now will be cheaper.

falcon needs a STRONG CPU!!!
the faster you get the better, bet 2GB of memory.
the other stuff for falcon (only for falcon!) is less important.

get a DX10 card, (both ATI-AMD and Nvidia will have new products by the end of the year or early next.)

and get a good PSU!!! very important.

if you have too much money to spend - get WD raptor drives.

Ido

[Wildcat]

Ido, those are certainly good suggestions, general rules, and good advice.  And thanks!

However, I've built four PC's since F4 came out, each applying those rules, and to be sure, my systems have provided for consistently better performance.

The thing is that at this point, F4's demands have leveled out while PC strength has continued to improve, resulting in margins of capacity that go unused much of the time.  For example, F4 doesn't use DirectX 10 - so a DX10 card would be of little extra gain.

I'm trying to find individuals that have built or bought PC's that do not experience the rather annoying video hangs that plague the sim - even in light graphics conditions like free flight, refueling, etc. 

I want to either replicate one of those systems or build from them as a base.

Frankly, I don't care about the cost at this point.  And I don't think it will be expensive.  You can throw money at F4 all day long, but if you don't get the right mix of very specific components, one will end up with the same sort of super system most, if not all of us have if we're nutty enough to build a cockpit.

I'm not looking for a vintage, I'm looking for a grape. 

[lightning]

To be fair, "video hangs" can stem from a lot of different sources.  As you've already mentioned, the video card, no matter what the spec sheet implies, is only as good as the drivers available for it.  Unfortunately, both ATI and nVidea are infamous for creating drivers that make the cards look good on benchmarks but that fail to hold up under real-world conditions, *at first*.  Over time, the driver quality improves...

So your question is totally valid -- it's easier to duplicate success than to try to integrate a bunch of parts with great specs that might not play so well together when it comes to Falcon 4. 

However, from reading your initial post, I'm assuming you're having video hang problems on your current setup.  I understand that there are a lot of variables involved in troubleshooting things like that, but every system is different, even two systems built at the same time using the same exact parts, running the same exact system image, etc.  So there's no guarantee that even duplicating someone else's setup will avoid the kinds of problems you're currently experiencing.  Given that, it may still make some sense to give it one final push to resolve current issues before buying a new machine...unless you're set on getting a new system anyway or you suspect the problems are in fact due to having an underpowered setup or mismatched components to begin with. 

So maybe some background on the problems you're seeing would be appropriate?

[Wildcat]

Actually, thank you lightning, but no, it would not.  The system I was using for F4 is now happily being used as a multimedia system.

Thank you for digesting my initial post and providing thoughtful input and suggestions. 

I am trying to find the componentry, should it exist, that has demonstrated itself to be hang free.

I am not trying to find out why my last two attempts encountered one or more of F4's well known idiosyncrasies.  I just don't feel like frakking around trying to analyse F4 any more.  I'd sell all my sim junk if I had to continue to go through that.

I have money to spend on a brand new system.  If someone has a hang free system, and would share the specs, the odds are good that I would eventually attain the same result, since I have pretty good PC-fu.

[idekkers]

well , if that's the problem - you just need to inquire which graphic card and driver combination is used and copy that - the rest will not cause you hangs i think.

Ido

[Wildcat]

On the surface, that makes huge sense, Ido.

However, with the myriad chipsets out there that run the various busses and memory caches, there are lots of ways for the system board to interact with the video card that might be at or near the F4 hangs.  It's so hard to tell.  I love putting together systems, but it just boggles my mind that there are so very, very many different boards and combinations out there.  It boggles even further that they 1. all work, and 2. all do pretty much the same thing.  I love going through a site like NewEgg and speccing out a madly powerful system.  No holds barred.  I did that when I put together my CGI system.  Excellent ASUS mobo.  P4 3ghz.  512mb PCI-E viddy card.  Over 2gigs of memonry.  AND F4 hesitates!!!  It's slight, but annoying as sin. 

So that's why the call has gone out to see if anyone, anywhere on the planet has a box that runs F4 without video issues....really, issues of any kind.

And the fact that this thread has already had 116 reads in the 24 or so hours it's been up, with not a single specific product mentioned....leads me to believe I may be searching for something that doesn't exist.

Please don't get me wrong - I appreciate the input.  And I'm not whining that no one's posting long, loving lists of components.  It just leaves the impression that we're all in the same boat and are just accepting our Falcon Fate.

 

[Crease-Guard]

IMHO, the best system is the one that doesn't hang or crash.  That's why I built with all Intel products, board and CPU.  I've done that now 4 times in my last 4 builds and have not been happier.

My current card is an ATI 1900XT.  This trick with this card is I used the drivers that came with the disc and NEVER tried any other drivers.  I've read stories about others that tried other newer drivers and that was it, short of a format, the pooch was screwed with falcon and they could never go back to a hang free system.  I loaded the drivers on teh disc and haven't touched it since.  It seems falcon and the newer cards/driver combos don't play nice together so IMO it's better to get an older card and older drivers rather than the latest greatest.

One other thing...stay away from Soundblaster stuff.  Nothing but troubles.

Jay

[lightning]

Good tips, Jay.  This has been a perenial problem dating all the way back to stock F4 fresh outta the box.  There are utilities out there that will allow you to get your system set up a certain way, then "branch" off from there into other configurations such as different drivers and such, to try out variations on a theme -- Symantec GoBack has been very good to me, but I hesitate to recommend Symantec products for any reason because they are notoriously hideous to uninstall and they are licensed under somewhat Draconian terms, and require infinite patching to keep up-to-date.  However, many alternative utilities exist.  Back in the day we'd just back up our Windows folder and our registry, try a bunch of combos to see what worked, and then restore the windows folder if things went badly.  Today it's still possible to use the same technique, if not a bit harder to do the restore if the system won't come up at all (that's where a custom-made BartPE boot disc comes in very handy!)  That, along with a good set of drive imaging software (try DriveImage XML -- it's free), and you can discover the best driver combinations fairly readily.  It's a bit of a time investment, for sure, but it will pay off in the performance department.  For just tweaking driver options, all that's needed is a registry backup.  There are registry "Diff" tools out there that will make a backup of your registry, and then allow you to make changes to your system and driver configurations, then compare what's changed in the registry between the current version and the backup.  It gets a bit tricky to sort out the changes that way, though...so real configuration-management software (similar to Symantec GoBack) is the preferred way to go -- I just haven't researched an alternative utility for that yet, since in my non-sim-related work, that stuff's all been made obsolete by VMWare.  Too bad VMWare's still hideous for gaming. 

[Crease-Guard]

Lightning brings up another good point.  If you want a hang free system, build it to run falcon ONLY.  Don't install one bit of anything that is not absolutely needed.  I've found this does two things:  Keeps things very stable and shortens boot time considerably.

If you want a bullet proof sim puter, keep it lean and mean.  No fluff, no fat.  The only thing I have installed on my computer that is not sim related is antivirus and firewall software and a few utilities for keeping tabs of things and resolutions and vid card settings.  Other than that, that's it.

And for God sakes, stay away from Symantec.  Lighting is spot on this one.  I got rid of their virus of a POS software a few years ago and MANY of my computer issues dissappeared along with it.  Best decision I ever made software wise.

Jay

[lightning]

Yep and might I add, when it comes to firewalls, at all costs avoid ZoneAlarm.  It *used* to be good.  Way back when.  Way, way way back when.  It's terrible shit now.  Can't recommend Komodo either for similar reasons.  Most desktop firewalls are absolute performance killers across the board...worst case you can fall back on the built-in Windows firewall (piece of crap but not a perf killer as much as the other stuff because it's fairly feature-free...it'll keep the goonies you don't have from getting in for the most part, but it won't prevent the goonies you have from getting out)...

[Wildcat]

Belated thanks, gents.

The Box has been built.  ASUS mobo, AMD AM2 4800, 2 gigs of memory and a mildly dated ASUS vid card.  Samsung Syncmaster 27" widescreen monitor.  Hangs minimal.  Vid card upgrade....eventually.

No viruscan, no firewall (behind a router anyway) and nuthin' else on the box but AF and Redviper.....and Martin's F4Glass server.....and whatever else the sim will need to support Betainnovations gizmos......happy camper!!!