BMS & AR Demo Video

[tiger-31]

I'm a little surprised that there is no recent discussions on Mixed Reality after it was released in the new 4.37 U4 version of BMS.
I think it's is a major game changer for pit builders.
I would think most of the users on this forum would be going crazy, now that they don't need screens and projectors anymore...

Same here, was looking forward to seeing/reading more experiences on the subject here. My rig is not operational yet, but will most likely go the AR route.

[mihi4]

+1
Since my pit isn't flyable in the moment, I decided to wait until I'm close to flyable state and see what's state-of-the art at that moment.
Makes no sense investing in something now, which will be way outdated at the time I'm starting to use it.

[tiger-31]

+1
Since my pit isn't flyable in the moment, I decided to wait until I'm close to flyable state and see what's state-of-the art at that moment.
Makes no sense investing in something now, which will be way outdated at the time I'm starting to use it.

Exactly, right now I'm glad I only invested in one projector, and not in a setup with 3 and curved screens, as I planned to do several years ago.

[Korbi]

It' is awesome to have this capability now! The thing missing atm is the headset to do it. The only (at least a bit) viable option is the Quest3. Unfortunately, the headset can not deliver the quality I want in several aspects (resolution, clarity, passthrough quality) and spending around 500 eur just to fuzz around a bit in instant action is not the way to go for me.
I've seen Jodys vids and they are awesome, I'm happy it does work for him, but I also know from others who are not so pleased with the overall performance of the headset. I'm hoping for the VR1 of Somnium to arrive soon, maybe I'm going for this one then - if I can afford it

[tiger-31]

It' is awesome to have this capability now! The thing missing atm is the headset to do it. The only (at least a bit) viable option is the Quest3. Unfortunately, the headset can not deliver the quality I want in several aspects (resolution, clarity, passthrough quality) and spending around 500 eur just to fuzz around a bit in instant action is not the way to go for me.
I've seen Jodys vids and they are awesome, I'm happy it does work for him, but I also know from others who are not so pleased with the overall performance of the headset. I'm hoping for the VR1 of Somnium to arrive soon, maybe I'm going for this one then - if I can afford it

Thanks for the feedback @Korbi This is just the kind of info we need.

[Moon]

I agree that this is an exciting development @jjbravo.

Hopefully chroma key (green screen) passthrough becomes available for the Quest headset in the near future.  That would make it more accessible IMHO, as you could use a partial pit combined with a virtual one, or achieve a better separation between the real pit and the virtual outside world.

Varjo uses this technique, as described here: https://varjo.com/blog/blend-real-and-virtual-seamlessly-with-new-xr-1-features/

They specifically refer to it's value in flight sims.

It will be long time until the passthrough cameras are as good as our eyes, so good pit lighting will be important for passthrough.  You'll need to light the pit for the way a camera sees it, not how it looks to your eyes.

[Atlas]

I'm still doing a lot of work on the pit and waiting for new Bodnar boards so I've not flown in U4 yet.

However, I did try some other "solutions" in U3 using my Quest.  I had a significant performance hit to the point that I would turn off the MR when I didn't need it.  I'm keen to give U4 a try, but I will also have to make my own mask, which requires some Blender work.

As for the Quest 3, I have zero issues with it considering the price point, which is (depending on version) half or even less than half of the Pimax Crystal.  The passthrough is great.... could be better, but I guess we won't have that until Somnium comes out or someone is willing to shell out for the Varjo XR4s.  So again, for the price point, the Quest 3 passthrough is very good.

[mihi4]

Varjo uses this technique, as described here: https://varjo.com/blog/blend-real-and-virtual-seamlessly-with-new-xr-1-features/

That's what I'm talking about, when I say "I'm going to wait".
To me it makes no sense investing in technology now, when I'm just going to use it in months or even years from now.
Technology improves in just an incredible pace at the moment.

[Sneakpeek]

What we can hope for, is that the Passthrough of the Q3 will improve over time.
Think most of the effort that has to be done, will have to happen on the software side. That means the firmware from Meta and / or Virtual Desktop (or other solutions).

Meta has just dropped Update 66 which should improve passthrough as to their statement.

I'll have yet to test that, as it's just been installed 10 minutes ago.

In the end, it'll always be trade-off and compromise.

I didn't do too much AR yet on my setup yet - only 20 minutes or so - and what I've experienced until now was as underwhelming as I've expected it to be - but, still the clear direction where things will be going.
I could say the same about VR, by the way. It's also not perfect and looking a bit PS3-ish und certain circumstances (depending on the Game, the Headset, the settings you can afford), but it still will not let you loose.
The same goes for BMS by the way: Not graphically perfect (by nature!) - but at the end of a 2-hour multiplayer mission you'll have been totally immersed!

@Marvin What VD passthrough settings do you use (Similarity and Smoothness)?

[Marvin]

It' is awesome to have this capability now! The thing missing atm is the headset to do it. The only (at least a bit) viable option is the Quest3. Unfortunately, the headset can not deliver the quality I want in several aspects (resolution, clarity, passthrough quality) and spending around 500 eur just to fuzz around a bit in instant action is not the way to go for me.
I've seen Jodys vids and they are awesome, I'm happy it does work for him, but I also know from others who are not so pleased with the overall performance of the headset. I'm hoping for the VR1 of Somnium to arrive soon, maybe I'm going for this one then - if I can afford it

I would argue this.  They may just not be using it to its potential.  First thing is wireless is just horseshit.  To think you can run sims like we have and the graphics as wireless is pretty insane.  So running it wired has way more performance.  Further more using sufficient lighting makes the clarity just about 100%.  I installed two LED spot lights over my shoulders to both simulate natural sunlight and the sufficient lighting as increased my clarity to almost 100%.  And lastly, many are gauging from my videos which is not what it is like in the headset at all.  It is much smoother and faster inside the headset compared to when I use the headset to record. 

It's also important to note that your eyes just get use to it.  I will admit when I first tried the pass through I was not impressed at all.  But after tweaking it and then yours eyes just getting use to it I have absolutely no issues reading anything in the pit; including my knee boards.

So all I can say is you are missing out big time.

[Marvin]

It' is awesome to have this capability now! The thing missing atm is the headset to do it. The only (at least a bit) viable option is the Quest3. Unfortunately, the headset can not deliver the quality I want in several aspects (resolution, clarity, passthrough quality) and spending around 500 eur just to fuzz around a bit in instant action is not the way to go for me.
I've seen Jodys vids and they are awesome, I'm happy it does work for him, but I also know from others who are not so pleased with the overall performance of the headset. I'm hoping for the VR1 of Somnium to arrive soon, maybe I'm going for this one then - if I can afford it

Thanks for the feedback @Korbi This is just the kind of info we need.

With all respect to Korbi, I don't think he can give an honest assessment without trying it.  I am approaching almost 70 hours of AR use now and as I commented above there are tricks to make it even better.   You really need to give it a try.  Trust me you won't regret it. 

[Sneakpeek]

@Marvin I did the same things, including the LED light overhead and I can read most gauges and most displays just fine.

The DED and the CPD are a bit of a nuisance, because of the DED's slow refresh cycles and the CPD is a bit too bright. I can fix the CPD at least.

I can confirm, that the clarity and the smoothness of the Quest 3 is absolutely flawless in my opinion.

In my case I use wireless, which is no horseshit at all, if you allow me to say that - if you have a decent setup and optimize the settings.
I don't think, that a wired connection will have a notable advantage over my wireless connection. I've bought a dedicated router (ASUS TUF GAMING AX6000) which stands next to my pit and the connection speed is more than sufficient to produce the same image as I'd have with a wired setup. It's just there for my VR headset, so there's not much traffic on it.
I use Virtual desktop with 170Mbps bandwidth and the AV1 codec - no stutters, no artifacts, just a nice smooth image. Same goes for DCS by the way.

For me, it's rather, that the image is a bit "bumpy", though when you move and it produces a warping effect on the edges.
n my case, I'll also have to tweak the mask, as the forward part of my cockpit is a couple of cm's broader than the real thing, due to a measurement error on the Center pedestal.
Anyway, I have to continuously set the image center as the view tends to "wander" a bit, and then the real cockpit and its virtual counterpart aren't aligned anymore.

To summarize: As you said, you'll have to see it for yourself (which is not a high hurdle, as you can lend VR headsets for a test ride nowadays) and you have to give the whole thing a bit of time. For me, I'll have to tweak the mask to be able to really use it without compromises.

One of the downsides is the bumpiness of the image, when I move my head. That is probably due to the fact, that the software has no means to compensate for the temporary misalignment of the real and virtual image (yet).

@Marvin What passthrough settings do you use (smoothness, similarity)?

[tiger-31]

@Marvin and @Sneakpeek thanks for chipping in with your practical experience on the subject. 

[Marvin]

Sneak peek,

Sorry yeah maybe a poor choice of words.  Perhaps it depends on the connection.   I had an average of 1000 mbps and it just wasn’t good enough for me.  So I went wired and really the best thing about the wire was not having to charge it as it is always on full charge.   So to each his own but we both agree it is pretty awesome and regardless of it not being Perfect it is still worth it while we wait for better headsets.

I did talk to Martin and he is looking into a frequency of our DEDs to work better with AR.

[Atlas]

First thing is wireless is just horseshit.  To think you can run sims like we have and the graphics as wireless is pretty insane.  So running it wired has way more performance.

Seems like a few on the BMS forums and OculusQuest on Reddit would disagree.
Please let me know how you're testing and what cable you're using.  I would always welcome more performance!