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Cockpit assignement issue with DCS by Red Dog
[May 01, 2021, 12:01:16 PM]


Dcs and Oleds? by wiggles5289
[May 01, 2021, 11:33:26 AM]


Go by Foghorn. by Rufus
[April 30, 2021, 02:35:47 PM]


CPD interfacing with BMS by jjbravo
[April 27, 2021, 11:14:19 AM]

Author Topic: Go by Foghorn.  (Read 1967 times)

Offline Sandman

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #30 on: January 24, 2021, 06:29:39 PM »
Welcome Foghorn!

It is always great to have Real Life Viper drivers.  Please feel free to correct any misinformation you come across - it helps to keep some of us honest! Many times we are speculating on how we think the F-16 behaves in real life.

We always ask that "classified" details of any real missions, weapon/radar capabilities, and crypto/ECM NOT be discussed on the forum (for obvious reasons), but general F-16 questions are fair game.  We leave this to your discretion.

Have you built an F-16 replica / cockpit?  Plans to build one?  Have you had an opportunity to fly in any hobbyist simulators running BMS Falcon?

Again, WELCOME

 :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: January 25, 2021, 05:34:48 PM by Sandman »

Offline Foghorn

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2021, 09:57:50 AM »
Sandman,

Thank you for the warm welcome!  I have not built an F16 pit, nor enjoyed any hobbyist simpits.  However, my test pilot work over the last nearly 4 years since retirement have been 95% in F16 simulators of varying levels of fidelity... with the occasional sortie in a jet for data gathering.  The engineering nerd in me, of course, always wants to pull panels and see how these simpits are built, and luckily my contracts with the Aerospace Defense Industry Companies (who shall not be named, but you know who they are... the BIG ones) allow me to do just that... I don't even have to tell them why I am doing it!

I am building something of a generic simpit.  Not a replica of any existing anything.  And, for as big of a fighter geek as I am, I am an even bigger space nerd.  My main vidja gamez addictions are Star Citizen, DCS Viper, DCS Warthog, and Mechwarrior Online.  So I have a simpit under construction that allows me to do anything and everything.

My main "other" hobby is woodworking.  I have a woodshop that I am fairly proud of.  I just recently purchased a CnC Machine to add to my collection of power tools, :outthewindow: and am now having a bit of a 'crisis' trying to figure out where in the heck I am going to set it up.  I'm having sort of a... "my eyes were bigger than my stomach" problem.  When I unboxed it to start assembly, I quickly came to realize it's finished dimensions are roughly the size of a queen-sized bed.

So, now I am elbows deep in a huge reorganization of the shop, trying to accommodate this beast.  First world problems.
FOGHORN

Offline Zeight

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2021, 10:07:17 AM »
Sounds like fun problems. :beer:

Offline Foghorn

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2021, 10:44:52 AM »
Foghorn,

I’ve often wondered about this.  I’ve read, heard, seen etc different theories on advancing the throttle from MIL to AB via all at once or slowly going through the AB stages (gradually advancing the throttle forward) during take off.  I can’t seem to confirm if this is related to specific engine PW or GE procedure or perhaps maybe squadron SOPs?

Do know anything about this?

Thanks
Jody

Jody (BTW, Marvin is my second most favorite Looney Tunes character... "Earth-shattering Kaboom!"),

Apologies for the delay in responding.  I'm in the hell of writing test procedures for the T-7A, which is exactly as fun as it sounds.

Theories?  There are no theories.  According to the 1-T.O.-F16CM-1, there are no restrictions on throttle movement in any phase of flight for any of the four engine models.  After the 90% RPM "run-up" check on the runway, we stuff the throttle to MIL or MAX as appropriate and go.

These are fighter jets, not your grandma's Edsel.  We jockey the throttle from IDLE to MAX back to IDLE back to MAX back to MIL back to MAX back to IDLE (oh shit, fan the boards) back to MAX (put the boards in)... constantly, and as fast as your arm can move.  A dogfight is a brutally abusive athletic event in the cockpit, looking like (and as tiring as) a championship MMA bout.  These aircraft, and all of their systems have to be ROBUST.

Now, if foggy memory serves, I think "back in the dinosaur" A-model days, the baseline PW-200 motor in the Block 5 and Block 10 was pretty cantankerous and, shall we say, NOT ROBUST, and had to be pussy-footed when trying to light the 'burner for fear of No Lights, Blowouts, Compressor Stalls and Stagnations.  By the time they got to the PW-220E (aka, C-model Blocks 25/32/42... the ending '2' designating the PW motor), that issue was corrected.  Neither of the GE motors ever had that problem (C-Models 30/40/50... the ending '0' designating the GE motor), and neither did the PW-229 (C-Model Block 52).

My Viper time is in Blocks 25/30/32/40/42/50/52, and one ride in the two-seater Block 15 at Edwards for the spin program, which had a PW-220E... but I cannot attest that that engine model is what went in the production Block 15, because Edwards being Edwards is filled with Frankenstein jets, and nothing is what you would expect from "the books".  I have no time in Blocks 5 and 10 aircraft (before my time), so again... fuzzy memory hearsay caveat.

Hope that helps!
FOGHORN

Offline Foghorn

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2021, 11:27:38 AM »
..ok - I have one.  I've been previously involved in the Fleet introduction of a Trainer jet, and there were strict rules as to how every jet in the Trainer Fleet had to be exactly the same, wrt cockpit configuration. 

I've noted quite a bit of variance in the configurations of USAF Viper cockpits even in the Block 50/52 pictures I've found, and in some of the Guard jets (I'm talking left and right console configurations, mostly).  What sort of standardization does the USAF employ as far as this goes?  Or is/are the some sort of approach by mission applicability/purpose as to configuration?

Rufus,

Yes, standardization is supposed to be a thing, and Yes, the USAF does worship at that altar.  The discrepancies are most likely attributable to a couple of things:
  • The photos of the cockpit panels are from different points in time, before/after mods have been installed that changed cockpit config;
  • The USAF (all of DoD really) is constantly modding their equipment, so #1 happens often;
  • Often (most) mods are not done all at once, but instead "phased in" as convenience allows jets to be taken out of service for whatever timeframe is needed to complete the mod.

Ergo, even within a squadron, you may find small variations in cockpit panels as jets A thru D have had Mod #X completed, but jets E thru Z haven't yet.  Same goes for variances between squadrons flying the same exact Block... one Sq has it done, the other hasn't yet.

Air National Guard can also be a different animal, as the National Guard Bureau at the Pentagram will fund mods that they want through their coffers when Big Daddy Air Force won't fund it for anybody.  So, you can also find variations between ANG jets and Active Duty (AD) jets.

I blame politicians.  For everything.  Always.
FOGHORN

Offline Marvin

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2021, 11:31:11 AM »
Foghorn,

I’ve often wondered about this.  I’ve read, heard, seen etc different theories on advancing the throttle from MIL to AB via all at once or slowly going through the AB stages (gradually advancing the throttle forward) during take off.  I can’t seem to confirm if this is related to specific engine PW or GE procedure or perhaps maybe squadron SOPs?

Do know anything about this?

Thanks
Jody

Jody (BTW, Marvin is my second most favorite Looney Tunes character... "Earth-shattering Kaboom!"),

Apologies for the delay in responding.  I'm in the hell of writing test procedures for the T-7A, which is exactly as fun as it sounds.

Theories?  There are no theories.  According to the 1-T.O.-F16CM-1, there are no restrictions on throttle movement in any phase of flight for any of the four engine models.  After the 90% RPM "run-up" check on the runway, we stuff the throttle to MIL or MAX as appropriate and go.

These are fighter jets, not your grandma's Edsel.  We jockey the throttle from IDLE to MAX back to IDLE back to MAX back to MIL back to MAX back to IDLE (oh shit, fan the boards) back to MAX (put the boards in)... constantly, and as fast as your arm can move.  A dogfight is a brutally abusive athletic event in the cockpit, looking like (and as tiring as) a championship MMA bout.  These aircraft, and all of their systems have to be ROBUST.

Now, if foggy memory serves, I think "back in the dinosaur" A-model days, the baseline PW-200 motor in the Block 5 and Block 10 was pretty cantankerous and, shall we say, NOT ROBUST, and had to be pussy-footed when trying to light the 'burner for fear of No Lights, Blowouts, Compressor Stalls and Stagnations.  By the time they got to the PW-220E (aka, C-model Blocks 25/32/42... the ending '2' designating the PW motor), that issue was corrected.  Neither of the GE motors ever had that problem (C-Models 30/40/50... the ending '0' designating the GE motor), and neither did the PW-229 (C-Model Block 52).

My Viper time is in Blocks 25/30/32/40/42/50/52, and one ride in the two-seater Block 15 at Edwards for the spin program, which had a PW-220E... but I cannot attest that that engine model is what went in the production Block 15, because Edwards being Edwards is filled with Frankenstein jets, and nothing is what you would expect from "the books".  I have no time in Blocks 5 and 10 aircraft (before my time), so again... fuzzy memory hearsay caveat.

Hope that helps!

Foghorn,

Excellent that clarifies.  Also hearing it from a Viper driver with your extensive experience instills confidence compared to all the previous discussions I have read on this.

Thank you!
Jody
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Offline bismond

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2021, 01:26:06 PM »
Sad to see the T38 on its way out. The T-7A looks like a F15 had sex with a T38.
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Offline bismond

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2021, 01:33:23 PM »
My favorite callsign story was a helicopter pilot called Stuckey. He got lost on a navigation training mission and landed at a Stuckey's to ask for directions. Needless to say they were waiting for him at the base after the store owner called.
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Offline Marvin

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #38 on: April 29, 2021, 02:41:49 PM »
Hey dude,

This has been a long debated question on our dev forum and will never end as there is always the elements of realism vs immersion.

So the question is (and I know its hard to answer) but how loud is the internal engine sound to a pilot when wearing ear plugs and a helmet?

If you listen to any camera inside a Viper the sound seems distorted so that would tell me it is quite loud to the camera.  But then we have guys who argue with ear plugs and a helmet you wouldn't hear that?  But when I put ear plugs and my helmet on; sure the ambient noise around me is certainly reduced but I can still hear stuff.

So I am wondering if there is any way you can describe (from memory) whether or not, or how loud the internal engine sound is inside the cockpit?

I ask I as I am trying to find tune my sounds to something that is realistic.  Having the jet seat vibrate the sate adds nice immersion that a jet is running, and now trying to fine tune the audio in the headphones would be the icing on the cake.

Jody
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Offline Kukki

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #39 on: April 29, 2021, 10:40:01 PM »
Cool Jody
I agree, could be nice to have a real viper pilot to set the sound bars in bms as close to the real sounds in the jet with a helmet on and post a screen shot
Then we can adjust our sound to that if we have a helmet on or not 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 11:53:28 PM by Kukki »

Offline Marvin

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #40 on: April 29, 2021, 11:45:26 PM »
That's a great idea!  Foghorn I officially invite you to my house to try the sim and do that!   :-P
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Offline Tulkas

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2021, 01:57:26 AM »
I had a friend of mine, pilot of AV8BII plus Spanish Harrier, flying at home the DCS Harrier and he commented that in the real plane it was much noisier, I asked him that if even with ear plugs and helmet he could hear the engine that well and he answered "yepp!!"

I am curious to see what Foghorn has to say about the Viper!

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Re: Go by Foghorn.
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2021, 02:35:47 PM »
I've spent some time working with Harriers, and yes - it is probably the noisiest cockpit environment of all modern fighters. We tried implementing a voice command system in the jet in those days, and it simply would not work because of background noise interference.  There is a STRONG high frequency component to the Harriers inlet noise too.  Not to mention that the canopy seal will deflate at low power settings and you get wind noise in the cockpit during extended periods at idle during high angle dives.  I'd certainly call the Harrier a "worst case".
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