MFD Exporter utility

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[questerymj]

Got it Lightning!I will try to borrow some other video card and try to prove if its 8800GTS screw that.:)Then change a new vedio card since very few of my friend fly OF...they will take good use of my 8800GTS I think.

And thanks for your effort to try all of these for us.I really believe you worth to get more beers for this.

[questerymj]

Let me add some newest test result(Lightning please don't beat me because I use all Nvidia cards!just for reference ).

Last Saturday I get a old Nvidia 7600GS(256mb) and a 9600GT(1Gb ram) from my wife's PC.Here are test result:

1.Because Omega Driver 169.12 didn't support 9600GT,so I use newest 185.85 forceware.
2.7600GS keep error when starting OF so I throw it away very soon.
3.Without D3D proxy:9600GT will get same low fps after enable 3D export.
  With D3D proxy:9600GT get 60 fps after enable 3D export!But even with D3D Proxy,the UI didn't show small(640*480 in 1920*1200) like before,I can't tell if OF is running under WINDOW mode or not.now 3D pit works but 2D pit MFD exporting still flicking.Don't understand why.

Next I change back to my poor 8800GTS.Use same 185.85 driver.I don't know why but I can eneter OF with 3D proxy dlls wiithout disable AGP texture...but I find the HUD/MFD/DED display in 3D pit is gone.Of course no display in Falcon MFD exporter display.

3D pit is somewhat playable(without HUD/MFD dislay),but after some mouse panning it may become unstalbe and can't switch back to 2D pit.Similiar to before but better now anyway.

I think the new driver may fix some problem but still not pretty work well with D3D proxy dlls,and 8800GTS exactly have some problems when compare to 9600GT(but still more powerful than 9600GT when running in other highend 3D games...)

[lightning]

3.Without D3D proxy:9600GT will get same low fps after enable 3D export.
  With D3D proxy:9600GT get 60 fps after enable 3D export!But even with D3D Proxy,the UI didn't show small(640*480 in 1920*1200) like before,I can't tell if OF is running under WINDOW mode or not.now 3D pit works but 2D pit MFD exporting still flicking.Don't understand why.

If 2D flickers and you're on NVidia, you're definatly not running in windowed mode.  Looks like your 9600GT *does* support AGP textures, that's great.  Still you will want to run in -window mode to avoid the NVidia flicker issues with 2D capture.

Next I change back to my poor 8800GTS.Use same 185.85 driver.I don't know why but I can eneter OF with 3D proxy dlls wiithout disable AGP texture...but I find the HUD/MFD/DED display in 3D pit is gone.Of course no display in Falcon MFD exporter display.

3D pit is somewhat playable(without HUD/MFD dislay),but after some mouse panning it may become unstalbe and can't switch back to 2D pit.Similiar to before but better now anyway.

Great testing work

As you can see by scanning thru this thread, just about everyone that's reported AGP-textures related issues, is running an 8800GTS.  So I think we can safely say that at this point that the 8800GTS does not support AGP textures. 

In comparison, the particular EVGA 8800GT (not GTS) card that I have, *does* support AGP textures, but I can't say whether this is true for all 8800GT cards or not, or even if it'd work on all driver versions or not (though driver versioning has never been an issue for me as far as this feature is concerned). 

Anyway, to explain the blank MFDs/HUD/etc. that you were seeing, let's look at a couple of different scenarios:

1.)
Let's say that AGP textures are *not* actually supported on your card, but you've got them *enabled* in DxDiag anyway.  In this case, when the proxy DLLs ask Direct3D to create the relevant surfaces for the MFDs, HUD, etc., DirectX will say "everything's fine" -- but, really, all is *not* fine... because when Falcon actually tries to render to those surfaces, then, DirectX will silently fail.  So nothing crashes in this case (well maybe...), but you see blank MFDs, HUD, etc in Falcon.

2.)
In contrast, let's again say that AGP textures are *not* supported by your card, but this time,  let's say you have them *disabled* in DxDiag. 

In this case, when The proxy DLLs ask Direct3D to create the MFD/HUD/etc. surfaces as AGP surfaces, Direct3D will throw an error (because AGP surfaces are not enabled). 

In previous proxy DLL versions, this used to cause a crash, but the latest proxy DLLs don't crash anymore when this error is thrown.  Instead, now, the proxy DLLs will just try again to create those surfaces as ordinary non-AGP video memory surfaces, compatible with all video cards.

Of course if your card does not support AGP surfaces, and you've enabled 3D cockpit MFD export in OpenFalcon, then your Falcon framerates will take a big hit, just as if you were not using the proxy DLLs at all. 

---

Long story short -- even if your graphics card does not support AGP surfaces, if you're using NVidia hardware, you'd *still* want to use the proxy DLLs, even though they won't help your framerates any, because they will allow you to run Falcon in -window mode without the annoying titlebar, window border, etc.

You definately need to be running Falcon in -window mode on NVidia hardware if you are interested in using MFD Extractor's 2D capture mode, without the flicker problems.  That's the only way.

And if your card does not support AGP textures, you should have them disabled in DxDiag or you will have some very boring MFDs and HUD in Falcon.

[lightning]

After a long wait (thanks, guys, for your patience!), the next update to MFD Extractor is ready to go and will be posted tonight/early tomorrow morning. 

New in this release:

* support for capturing 4 MFDs + HUD
* ability to import/export capture coordinates (share them w/your friends via email)
* new right-click "Make Square" option on all output windows to resize them automatically to a square
* fixes issues with saving secondary 2D capture mode hotkeys and coordinates
* several minor performance tweaks
* several minor bug fixes

[questerymj]

Thank you Lightning!:D:D

BTW i'm getting a GTX280 for further test(Lightning don't beat me please) and I wish it can fix all issues on my poor 8800GTS.

[lightning]

MFD Extractor v0.3.0.0 is released.

Download at:
http://svn2.assembla.com/svn/lightningstools/tags/End%20User%20Applications/Falcon%20MFD%20Extractor/Version%200.3.0.0/Falcon_MFD_Extractor_v0_3_0_0__x86.zip

[questerymj]

Thnaks a lot Lightning!

Should I need to uninstall the older version first to install the new version?

BTW I'd got GTX280 and done the test.Under full screen mode with the 3D data export enable,the 3D pit fps is as slow as in 8800GTS.After change to window mode and put 3D proxy into OF folder,GTX280 works very nice with 70+ fps under 3D pit!

Although I know OF can't use the true perfermance of GTX280 for it's older DX8 engine,I'm pretty satisfied now.I finally can begin to build my MFD bazel and enjoy OF now.Thank you Lightning!

[lightning]

Should I need to uninstall the older version first to install the new version?

Yes. 

BTW I'd got GTX280 and done the test.Under full screen mode with the 3D data export enable,the 3D pit fps is as slow as in 8800GTS.After change to window mode and put 3D proxy into OF folder,GTX280 works very nice with 70+ fps under 3D pit!

Glad you were able to get it going!  Curious, have u tried full-screen mode w/the 3D proxy yet with the GTX280?  Curious if the new GTX's still have the 2D capture mode flicker issues...

[questerymj]

I just finished install the new heatsink on GTX280 so I didn't have time to try new MFD exporter.

I found when I run OF in full screen mode with 3D proxy,the 3d pit nicely as many fps as in window mode!
I used to think 3D proxy must be used with window mode...:p

But in 2D pit,I think the MFD flickering more than without 3D proxy.Without 3D proxy it flickering every 1~2 seconds.and flickering 1-2 time per second with 3D proxy.

I will try new verison MFD exporter tonight and report.

[lightning]

I found when I run OF in full screen mode with 3D proxy,the 3d pit nicely as many fps as in window mode!

I used to think 3D proxy must be used with window mode...:p

Nope, you can definately use the 3D proxy with fullscreen mode. 

The -window mode thing is only necessary on NVidia hardware if you are using 2D capture.  That's because on NVidia hardware, 2D capture always flickers in full-screen mode. 

If you're always in the 3D pit and don't need 2D capture, go ahead and run OF fullscreen with the proxy.  That's what I do.   

Or if you need 2D and 3D, run Falcon in -window mode with the proxy.

But in 2D pit,I think the MFD flickering more than without 3D proxy.Without 3D proxy it flickering every 1~2 seconds.and flickering 1-2 time per second with 3D proxy.

Gotcha, no surprise there, 2D capture on NVidia with Falcon in full screen mode always has the flicker issue.  Severity/frequency of the flicker doesn't really matter, it's intolerable anyway you look at it. 

BTW flicker is an NVidia driver thing, not a MFDE thing, so it won't go away with new MFDE versions or whatever. 

[questerymj]

Lightning,apprently I'd find how to cure the flicker issue in Nvidia cards!

This afternoon I'm trying the fps under new version MFD exporter,under full screen mode,MFD flicker like before...and I think I should try to enable the powerful AA ability of GTX280 to make aircrafts look better.

So I exit OF and enter Nvidia control panel,create a profile for F4-BMS.exe,forced enable 16xQ AA/super sampling.Then I launch OF again...thanks to the power of GTX280 I got nice AA and almost no fps drop.And one thing looks different,it's...

The MFD display stop flicker now!

Looks like the famous GUI problem ever happened in OF 4.5 or earlier verison,forced enable AA with super sampling will cure many issues.

I would suggest everyone with the same flickering problem on Nvidia card with Falcon MFD exporter,if your card is powerful enough try enable forced AA with super sampling,I even feel that OF runs more smother with AA enable.

Thanks for Lightning keep helping me on this issue,I finally get rid of the flickering now. And get full enjoyof OF.

[svt_cobra99]

You may be one of the lucky ones. I am running three 8800GTX's and I have done extensive testing with all drivers. The flicker issues remains no matter how you set the AA or supersampling when operating in full screen. If it works for you then it is 280GTX specific. The GUI corruption remains with drivers later than 171.23 if you enable Anti Aliasing. FPS are still an issue in 3d cockpit with MFDE and my Nvidia cards. But keep testing. If an upgrade is in order for me to resolve this issue then I am onboard.


Tom

[questerymj]

You may be one of the lucky ones. I am running three 8800GTX's and I have done extensive testing with all drivers. The flicker issues remains no matter how you set the AA or supersampling when operating in full screen. If it works for you then it is 280GTX specific. The GUI corruption remains with drivers later than 171.23 if you enable Anti Aliasing. FPS are still an issue in 3d cockpit with MFDE and my Nvidia cards. But keep testing. If an upgrade is in order for me to resolve this issue then I am onboard.


Tom

Too bad. :(Now I begin to believe this should be hardware problem of Nvidia 8000 series only.

My 8800GTS have this issue,another people use 8800GTS 320mb ver have too,and I ever change 2 other Nvidia video cards- my wife's 9600GT(a fairy cheap one) and GTX280,all use latest official 185.85 driver,and both work with MFDE well with nice fps in 3D pit.No any graphic problem in GUI or any other place.

I know GTX280 is a fairly *new* video card in Geforce family,but 9600GT is somewhat old,you know in fact it's just a newer 8600GT...so if all issue only happen in 8800GTS/GTX with G80 chip(I guess),it's a design problem and not happen in later series.

I wish other successful MFDE users can post their video cards here if tyhey are nvidia users.This can help nerrow the problem to confirm this.

And about the fps in 3D pit,Lightning's 3D proxy work really nice even with my 8800GTS.I have lose 4-5 fps in 3D pit but it's complete acceptable if compare to without them in OF folder.If the 3D proxy didn't work for you,or you have the crash issue when use them(just like my 8800GTS)?

[questerymj]

Damn it,I just try and confirm the GUI corruption if I enable AA...

Since GTX280 need newer driver,this leave me the only choice:use window mode without AA.

[Moon]

I may have found an AF Nvidia flicker solution for this great piece of software.

I'm running an Nvidia 9500GT, 185.85, Falcon AF, 1920x1080 for the main Falcon screen, 1360x768 for MFD Extractor and Falcongauges, and it all works fine in windowed mode.

After reading questerymj post I thought I'd try his solution.  I had intermittent success.  If I moved the MFD windows around on the second screen I could sometimes get the flicker to disappear.  I eventually worked out that if I moved the MFD window off the second screen and onto the Falcon screen the flicker stopped.

By setting the MFD window on the second screen right near the edge, in fact just a pixel or two overlapping onto the Falcon screen, the flicker never appeared!  It also works with AA 2x and multisampling.  It doesn't seem to work with AA off.

I have no idea why it cures flicker, but I hope this information helps.

19:36 UTC
September 03,2010

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