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Viper Builders => Viper Pit Progress Reports => Topic started by: Red Dog on July 29, 2004, 05:33:26 AM

Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 29, 2004, 05:33:26 AM
After spending some months studying the project, I finally started building something.

The idea is to go from the current setup:
(http://users.skynet.be/fb011080/images/cockpit/red1.jpg)
to this:
(http://www.aimsworth.com/image/viper2_s08.jpg)

The choice to go for a Viper2 prototype is simply motivated by lack of place. I have a limited space between my bed and my office table to place the cockpit.

______ although in the meantime, the project evolved to this __________
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/353_simw.jpg)
_____________________read on ... ______________________________


Work has begun with the Aces2 seat reproduction. Wood and aluminium will be used and built around a real parachute container (Thanks Marvin :) ) I used Speedone drawings with some correction and a great lot of help from Philippe Marchal a fellow Belgian who built a wonderful reproduction of the seat.

Here's the garage after the first hour of work, so many things left to do  :P
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/001_beginning.jpg)
I printed an autocad file from Philippe (cross checked with J.A.K's) realsize to make some paper templates. That eased up a little the cutting process.

I found something I did some 10 years ago that might help this project:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/002_model.jpg)

The base of the seat slighly modified to suit my needs:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/003_assise.jpg)

Different angle:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/004_assise.jpg)

My first ever part I will do on a milling machine, the ejector seat arm handle. Seems like a simple part to do. I hope to be successful so I can make some other part for the project.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/005_lever.jpg)

The biggest concern I have for the seat is the head rest, I'll make some test this week-end.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on July 29, 2004, 05:39:31 AM
Sweet Red Dog, good to see some new blood.  That's a pretty cool seat model you have there.  Is that from one of those 1/12th pit models?  I lov ethe way you have the seat weathered and all, looks very realistic.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on July 29, 2004, 05:44:08 AM
Red Dog,
Great to see some picture's of your work, the couple of months studying shure helpt. Now it's only a mather of assemblying the hole thing :D
Keep us posted,

J.A.K.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 29, 2004, 05:50:23 AM
Thanks Jay, that's indeed the famous 1/12th scale model - about time I do a 1/1.
I make so many aircraft models, this is my first 1/1  :lol:

JAK,
Assembling and waiting some parts to arrive in my mailbox :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nutty on July 29, 2004, 05:53:20 AM
Hmmmm ... Red Dog ..... that name's very familiar ..... hmmmm .....  :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on July 29, 2004, 06:00:55 AM
That's funny, I told him the same thing when he posted up a question.  "Hmm, I know I've heard that name before, where was that???"

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 29, 2004, 06:03:35 AM
Just don't tell my lovely wife, okay gents...

James, Shouldn't you be extremely busy preparing something for... you know... ??
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on July 29, 2004, 07:12:53 AM
Hey, RedDog!

Welcome... "at home" :D.
The model is fantastic, and the first pictures make we want to see mooooooooooore - gimmegimme... ;).
Hopefully you'll have a nice pedal adjust handle in the upcoming days ;)

greetings
michi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on July 29, 2004, 07:56:43 AM
Red Dog,

Awesome job dude!!  I understand the space thing too!  Once I get my pit completed I will have to move my bedroom into the spare room, and my computer and sim into the bed room.  There just won't be enough room to open the pit up and work on it in the computer room.  I am not too happy about that, and I doubt the G-friend will be either!  :roll:

But hey once you get your pit all done and start flying let me know.  I know this really good website to get some nice checklists for Falcon!  :wink:

Take care
Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on July 29, 2004, 09:04:15 AM
Great work Red Dog!  Welcome to The Pit.  Sitting in that pit will definitely enhance the realism gained through your checklists!  Oh, and thanks again for all the checklists and maps!

Can't wait to see what's next!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on July 29, 2004, 05:27:42 PM
Welcome Red dog, glad you started your project! Interesting Pit also, if I didnt have the room, I would build the same type.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nutty on July 29, 2004, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
James, Shouldn't you be extremely busy preparing something for... you know... ??

Yes, it's already consuming all my time. But hoping to have my controllers mounted before then so I can end up in the pit for my last bachelor days ;)

Good to see you have a thread here in this much quieter and peaceful forum! ;)

Cheers!

James
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 30, 2004, 05:03:32 AM
I know the feeling James, I'm trying to achieve the most of the pit project (without rushing anything) before the birth of the little boy in September :)

Thanks for the warm welcome guys, here's a small update.

I continued milling the arm lever for the seat but I screwed up big time. The mill's vice (?) is not self centering and I couldn't make the curve in one pass. As a consequence I have quite a bad result with the part.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/006_lever.jpg)
But I know how to fix that with modeller mastic and sanding  :lol:

I also received the instrument set from Reactor one. I redid all images he used originally in higher resolution and more in the MLU standards. He uses 72dpi and it's noticeable at impression. So I redid the instruments from scratch with Photoshop. They are not totally vectorised but they are real size so size should not be altered.
Here's the total set:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/007_instruments.jpg)
Reactor one's work is really great! I'm pretty glad to have these.

Here's a comparison between the 300dpi altimetre (left) and the 72 dpi (right)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/008_altimetre.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on July 30, 2004, 06:30:26 AM
Wow.. great pics, Red Dog!

Could you post some pics of the HSI's parts? I'm interested in getting one, but I would like to no, if it would be possible to implement working needles.

If you would like to change the font of the scales to the real one, here is a download link from simpits.org:

http://www.simpits.org/fileproc/dload.php?file=MS33558FONT.ZIP

greetings
michi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ReactorOne on July 30, 2004, 01:33:44 PM
I did not know that you were so professional in joinery?  :wink:
Cheer Red Dog, that starts really well!!!!

I await the continuation impatiently...

R1
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on July 31, 2004, 06:16:17 AM
E too brute ?

my doughter is also due september, i also need to finnish stuff till then, got to work some....


Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 02, 2004, 03:34:51 AM
Michi,

Here are some pix of the HSI:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/017_realHSI.jpg)
The real deal, I had the chance to take a lot of pictures of dissasembled cockpits parts for the F-16 during the Volkel airshow :) Sometimes, rainshower are all benefits - it forces you to go inside see other stuff... :)

Here's an interesting pictures for dummies instruments:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/016_instruments.jpg)

As for my HSI:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/013_hsi.jpg)
and from a different angle:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/014_hsi.jpg)

The working needles is going to be a pain. Adding dummies is quite easy (since we have the space - actually, that's what I wanted in the first place) but having them turn is another matter....

Here's the graphic I made for it:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/018_HSI300.jpg)
It's reduced in quality. The good thing is that since they are photoshop layered, I can delete the needles in one mouse click.
it's not the final one - because they are alignement problems on this one.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Angela Deth on August 02, 2004, 06:47:32 AM
Hiya Red Dog.  I seem to have missed welcoming you so.... welcome to Viperpit!  Glad you're here with us.  And thanks for the great checklists!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 02, 2004, 04:06:27 PM
Thanks Gwen - Your acesII label kits is pretty good as well, can't wait to stick them on my painted seat....

Sunday was spent on the seat while the main cockpit still brew in my head  :shock:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/009_assise.jpg)
As you can see, I added aluminium profiles to attach the aluminium plate

A lot of time was spent sanding to transform the sharp cutting edges of the MDF wood into a gentle curve. Be warned, don't get into such a project if you are not ready to learn how to sand  :P

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/011_lateral.jpg)
I also sanded the knee protection to give them a more realistic angle. I'm pretty happy with the results.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/012_lateral.jpg)

Next step is to detail the two side panels with the embossement and rivets, aluminium plates,...
and still figuring out a way to made the head rest
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 09, 2004, 05:18:21 AM
I learned how to use rivets  :lol:

First exercice was to place the aluminium sheet on top of the seat pan.
 
I cut a 0.5mm aluminium sheet to size and placed it on the seatpan. It was then thermoformed with a heat gun and maintained in place.
The riveting process could then start. Holes were drilled at regular intervals through the sheet and the aluminium corner of the seat pan. Then the rivets were popped.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/019_seatpan.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/020_seatpan.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/021_seatpan.jpg)
Here's the final result, For a first, I'm pretty happy with it.

In the meantime, I also started making details on the side of the backrest.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/022_lateral.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on August 09, 2004, 06:55:00 AM
RD, on the ACES side there, have you conidered using those you cut for a form to make aluminum sheet sides?

Just wondering as thats how I plan on making my next seat, using MDF forms. Dave has a write up on the process.

Nice work on the seat pan.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 09, 2004, 09:06:42 AM
Yes and No;  K :o
Completely replacing the MDF with aluminium is not an option as far as I am concerned. Simply because weight is not an issue and I feel we can get as smooth a finish with wood as with aluminium.

What I intend to do is to place a small part of aluminium on top of the upper of the sides and rivet it on the sides. That will give just a little depth to the side and then I can emboss the holes I made in the MDF in the aluminium, using the wood as a template.
I will also use that aluminium sheet to attach the back rest aluminium sheet with rivets.

I guess a picture is worth a thousand words :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/023_lateral_alu.jpg)

That's what I intend to do. Picture, courtesy of a friend who probably has the best aces model ever made  8)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 16, 2004, 05:47:35 AM
A calm week-end devoted to pit(seat) work :)

I placed the aluminium covers on the side panels as explained before and cut the details into the aluminium using some paper templates.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/024_pose_alu.jpg)

Then I cut the centre line of the oblong hole and bent the aluminium on the inside. The round holes were done the same : a center hole, cut the diagonals and then bend the aluminium inside:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/027_pose_alu.jpg)

After that, the aluminium sheets (0.5mm) were bent according to the wood template. The front part was cut in section to ease the  curved bend.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/025_pose_alu.jpg)

Once a side panel was finished, it was glued and attached to the backrest mainframe:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/028_entrailles.jpg)


While the glue was drying, I continued work on the headrest and the roller assembly.
The headrest is really difficult to do (And I'm pretty happy I don't have to do the parachute container) Thanks To JAK for his drawing  :D
It's a 4mm MDF plate with 2 cm square sections on the side and on the upper part. The oblique parts were done by cutting some 18mm MDF along an angle - That's really not easy to do - And the double curve part below are done by sanding a piece od 18mm MDF as well.

Here's the headrest placed on the parachute container. It's too low and the double curve parts are not placed yet.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/030_headrest.jpg)

The roller assembly are made of wood as well. The rollers are 1 inch (25mm) wide and as much in lenght. They are glued on a metal rod that goes in their center.
The roller assembly are simply made of 18 and 12 mm MDF and the upper part has been milled for the shoulder straps attachement.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/031_rollers.jpg)

Then assembled on the unfinished headrest:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/032_headrest.jpg)

At the end of the day, I made the first dry assembly just to test fit parts and here's what it looks like:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/029_assemblage.jpg)
 :lol:  :P  So far, I'm pretty happy with the result. It's not perfect, there are some areas I could have done better and there's no doubt that some sanding and mastic are still required. But it's a pretty sight to see it come in shape  :wink:

The headrest was test fitted as well:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/033_headrestplace.jpg)

All in all, a pretty good week-end of work. Some finger cuts and an index finger smashed by a hammer  :oops:
could have been worse  :P  for those knowing me - my lovely wife in particular  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Angela Deth on August 16, 2004, 06:54:14 AM
Great work Red Dog!  Your ACES II is going to be one of the best home-built ones around!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on August 16, 2004, 10:00:36 AM
Great work Red Dog :D  Really nice. I like the roller assembly, nice and simple :D . The aluminium side pieces are a great idea!  This week I will find out what the shipping costs are of the seatbelt :wink:

By the way, you got a real parachute container. Would you make a little drawing of the pitottubes(or some picture's). I'm planning to make them, but I dont got good reference material :(

Greetings,
J.A.K.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on August 16, 2004, 12:41:47 PM
Nice work Red Dog, the aluminum at the top is a nice kicker.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Feathers on August 16, 2004, 10:35:51 PM
Awesome work on that ACES seat.  I really like the detail on those knee guards (or whatever they are called) and the detail at the top of the seat.  VERY nice.
Jim
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: nightowl on August 17, 2004, 02:44:49 AM
Hi Red Dog
Your seat is looking awesome. You're doing a great job there.

 I like the way that you have built the belt rollers. Thats something I still have to build, and I'm regretting not putting the thought into how i would do it early in the construction.
Are you planning on making an aluminium plate for the headrest ? I have a simple plan for the plate if you need one.
I've learned quite a bit through trial and error from skinning my Aces II, so if  I can help with any advise, please let me know.

Cheers
nightowl
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 17, 2004, 04:17:59 AM
Angela,
Thanks - coming from you Viperpit mistress - I'm blushing  :oops:

JAK,
I'll post picture with dimensions later today for you. There's a pretty drawing on Xflight about the parachute container as well:

http://www.xflight.de/f16/simulator/case/seat/00_00_001.gif

Thanks for the comments Jim and Kabar.
I wish all the Viperpit team could sign my seat because I feel it wouldn't have been possible without the help I got from all of you guys  :D

Nightowl, Thanks.
To be honest, the thought didn't even cross my mind so far :) But that's a pretty good idea! I really don't know where to start to make that aluminium plate because the curves are so difficult to get - even with wood. So if you have advices, I'll take anything :)

Yesterday I took my second shot at making my own metal parts. This time I tried the rail rollers. I need six of them and after drawing the plans from pictures and using a resin model, I started working on the lathe.
Much easier to do than the seat arm lever and although it is far from being perfect, I'm happy with the result. 5 more to go...

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/035_rail.jpg)

I also started to study the detail of the side panels of the seat pan:
basic placement:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/036_side.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 18, 2004, 03:51:25 PM
Jak,

Here are the details of the pitot tube you asked.
Lenght are millimeters...  :lol:

Anything else you want me to check, you let me know :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/035_container.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/036_container.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/037_container.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/038_container.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on August 19, 2004, 10:02:42 AM
:D Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, thanks. Really great stuff :D  :D  :D  :D
J.A.K.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: nightowl on August 22, 2004, 03:29:26 AM
Got to agree with J.A.K., those are great photos.  8)  Thanks for sharing them with everyone Red Dog.

I just wish I had J.A.K's smarts and had asked the question myself before spending hours trying to estimate all the dimensions of the brackets prior to building mine.

Re the headrest plate, I have just had an idea for an improved version to the one I made originally. I just need to try it out and see if it will in fact work. I'll send details when I have tested my theory.

Cheers
nightowl
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on August 22, 2004, 06:44:27 AM
Me smart :oops: thanks for the compliment Nightowl :D . I was planning to make them a long time. But I needed good references. Reddog has safe me alot of time :wink: Yours are great :shock:  :D I will do some dumpster diving at work for some 90 degree profiles that I'm thinking to use.
J.A.K.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 23, 2004, 02:58:42 PM
The least I can do with all the help I get from you guys :)


>Saturday was spent doing some model work  8) Actually, this seat is my first 1/1 model to go along this one :

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/models/F16/F16_92.jpg)
1/32 scale model converted to MLU from Hasegawa F-16C
Still in need for some stores...

Anyway, I painted some details to go on the seat such as the Oxygen bottle, ...

First layers in white, then applying the masks for thelettering:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/039_bottle.jpg)

Then 3 layers of metallic green and get the masks off and finally two coat of varnish.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/040_bottle.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on August 23, 2004, 04:00:35 PM
Rouge Chein,  :wink:

Wow, great work on the seat.  You are making some great detail.  And once again you have proven the theory "there is always a bigger and better fish"  :wink:

Now for that model..  You must start another thread explaining how you weather and make the detail on the F-16s skin stand out so much.  I just started getting back into models.  Although I was pretty good at airbrushing I never really knew or got into weathering and getting so much detail.  I just picked up a Hasagawa 1/48 CJ as well as 157th OIF series decals.  I am still looking for a way to make or buy the IFF fins on the nose.

Take care
Jody

Quote from: "Red Dog"
The least I can do with all the help I get from you guys :)


>Saturday was spent doing some model work  8) Actually, this seat is my first 1/1 model to go along this one :

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/models/F16/F16_92.jpg)
1/32 scale model converted to MLU from Hasegawa F-16C
Still in need for some stores...

Anyway, I painted some details to go on the seat such as the Oxygen bottle, ...

First layers in white, then applying the masks for thelettering:
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/039_bottle.jpg)

Then 3 layers of metallic green and get the masks off and finally two coat of varnish.
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/040_bottle.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on August 24, 2004, 04:24:45 AM
Yeah, what Jody said about the modeling.  I got back into it a couple of years ago.  Did an F4 Phantom without whethering.  Have started an F-15E about 2 years ago whethering it.  I think for my first attempt at whethering, it has turned out pretty good.  Problem is, I have never finished that model and I have a 1/32 F-16 sitting in my closet I have never started.

I hope once I get my new office setup, I will have some time to complete the F-15 and start the F-16.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 24, 2004, 04:50:57 AM
Well guys, No problem giving a step by step report of the buiding of this one: Check there... Hope it was the good place to post:

http://www.viperpit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=575

Actually, it was very easy to do this post since the building of the model has been the core of a step by step report of the model in a french forum. In that thread two guys  :lol:  built the same model with different techniques and different experiences. A real good adventure that started in December 2003 and which is finally nearing completion :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 24, 2004, 05:18:32 AM
After that model interlude, here's the follow up of the seat work.
Sunday was spent placing the aluminium back plate with its multiple curves ...  :shock:

Started by placing the 0.5mm  aluminium plate on the back rest and deliberately making it go over the side of the back rest so I can cut the aluminium at the final stage. Then I pop riveted the center
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/041_backrest.jpg)

Riveting goes on toward the sides and from below.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/042_backrest.jpg)

It took me about 2 hours and in the end I dry fitted the seat to judge the result:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/043_assembly.jpg)
mmmh...something is wrong but I don't know what yet... :?:

I placed the cushions to check:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/044_assembly.jpg)
Got it  :oops: , the back rest is too long (high) Normally, the back cushion should end closer to the roller assembly. So the backrest has to be lowered.

The seat is placed back on the chirurgical table.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/047_modif.jpg)
Since I placed an underside to the seatpan, I needed to cut it so the backrest can be lowered.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/048_modif.jpg)

Then, the two parts are attached together and a new check is performed:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/049_modified.jpg)
Aah, better  :D

Now I will decide later if I'll cut the excess of the backrest or if I will keep it as part of the upcoming stand I will use. Since I decided to place wheels under the front part of the seat so I can move it easily.

Details of the head rest.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/050_headrest.jpg)

And finally, placement of the details of the side of the seat. the rollers are made out of plain aluminium and the rest is bent aluminium sheets (0.5mm)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/051_details.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/052_details.jpg)

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/053_details.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on August 24, 2004, 07:34:04 AM
Tell you what RedDog, that seat is looking really great.  That's one of the best backrest jobs I've seen and your headrest looks spot on.

Keep up the good work.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on August 24, 2004, 07:57:58 AM
Excellent detail Red Dog!!!  Thanks for the project update.  Keep those photos coming.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on August 24, 2004, 11:49:37 AM
Wow, nice work :D
I have some catching up to do :wink:  :D
J.A.K.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on August 24, 2004, 09:45:17 PM
Awesome model, that will look great in your pit room. I have about 6-7 unbuilt f-16s I want to build at some point for my pitroom. Yours is one of the best models I have seen, you should enter it in some shows.

Your seat reflects the same meticulous modeling in a grander scale, great talent RD!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: badboy on August 25, 2004, 03:25:07 AM
nice job RD,looking very nice!!
keep us posted,

grtz,
Tom
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Al on August 26, 2004, 10:34:56 PM
Very nice Chair and Cushions there Red dog :)

I particularly like the Roller wheels you made.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 30, 2004, 04:48:24 AM
Thanks guys  :lol:

Little time I had this week-end was devoted to detailling the right side of the seat.

Here's the seatpan side:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/054_side.jpg)
Rivets are 8mm (and there are a lot of them)
The 5 emboss details are done in resin.
the longitudinal emboss detail is a half round in wood correctly sanded.
The front white part is 2mm plasticard.

Here's the backrest detail:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/055_details.jpg)
I used resin or aluminium for the rolls,
Aluminium sheet and MDF for the roll protections
The cables system are done with gaz pipes connector bought from a normal do it yourself supermarket :)
I still need to place some details around the hole.

Here's the seat in its current stage:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/056_siege.jpg)
Notice the wheels I placed up front.
the backrest will be cut at the ground angle so I can "set" in a certain way the angle of the seat.

Next step - left side and then paintworks  :?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on September 01, 2004, 04:22:14 AM
I've been working on restoring my seat these past couple of weeks and I gotta tell you, that'a pretty damn impressive looking seat.  I think when you get that done, it's gonna be hard to tell the difference between the two.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on September 01, 2004, 10:22:33 AM
Looks outstanding Red Dog, my one project is halted for a couple of wheeks :oops: , I got a other project thats absorbing all off my precious time. Annyway, now I have a great example to chase :wink:  :D
Greetings,
Jaap
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 02, 2004, 09:12:12 AM
Thanks Jay, that's a pretty nice comment :)

Jak, Don't worry - once the seat is finished I'll take a little break and then  start the cockpit :)


I'm looking for help.
The only part I am missing so far is the lock reel handle mecanism. It's the small part on the left side of the seatpan that lock and unlocks the shoulder straps.

I've been looking on ebay to buy one from an aces2 or even an F104 seat but came up dry.

Any one have any idea ?
or better a spare somewhere you don't use?

Or even measures? That part seems pretty difficult to do it myself but if that's the only possibility left, I'll try at least...

Thanks
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on September 02, 2004, 09:30:13 AM
Lot's of luck in finding that one.  I've been looking for that and the inertial reel as well.

You might and try to ask realsims.  I know they are eventually going to build seats for customers.  They have a working lock and release mechanism and inertial reel.  I don't know if they would build just this item for you, but it would be worth the email to ask.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 02, 2004, 09:33:47 AM
LOL...

No joy... I already asked  :lol:

That will be for their seat only and none of their seat (except the proto) are manufactured as far as I know...

But yes, I have the picture from their website and I drool over it :)

Wish I could get my hands on a real one, It would even be possible to make a mould and make copies in Resin  :shock:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on September 02, 2004, 09:36:33 AM
Don't give up hope.  I have a source for things like this.  I'm gonna hit him up hard when the times right.  If I can get a hold of one, then we'll work out something so you can mold it.  I'll try to snag an extra lever if I can.

I can say that I have sat in that seat, it is very nice and hard to tell by looks that it is not the real deal.  Having sat in both of them, if you do buy the seat, you will not be dissapointed.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on September 02, 2004, 10:51:06 AM
Quote from: "Crease-Guard"
I've been working on restoring my seat these past couple of weeks and I gotta tell you, that'a pretty damn impressive looking seat.  I think when you get that done, it's gonna be hard to tell the difference between the two.

Jay

Red Dog,

I agree with Jay, your seat is fantastic.  What I like about this community is there is always a bigger fish!!  Everytime we learn from eachother and the next guy steps up to build his, he/she always adds something else to make it even more realistic.

I noticed you are planning on making your ejection seat slide in the rails.  Have you done this before?  The reason I ask is my last cockpit I built had a working ejection rail.  Although it looked cool, it turned to be more of a pain in the butt then what it was worth.  2 reasons.  It was a tight fit to lift the seat up and slide down the rails, as the average roof here is like 7 feet or something.  But even more so was the weight.  You made yours out of MDF as I did, and I can bench about 280lbs right now, and it almost broke my back everytime lifting that thing up high enough to slide in the rails.  So this time around I have fake rails and just bolted the seat in place.  But hey, if you can find a more convenient way to do it, rock on, cause it looks damn cool!  :wink:

Take care
Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 02, 2004, 11:26:09 AM
Jay, Thanks.
Hope you can get one.... In the meantime, I'll continue to look for it over here. Since we fly the F-16 as well; I might just get lucky :)

Marvin,
Quote
Everytime we learn from eachother and the next guy steps up to build his, he/she always adds something else to make it even more realistic.
Well that is simply because when you spend some time reading this forum, you get all the tips from all builders and then what else can you miss?
So it's because of the guys have started before me that I'm able to build mine. Doing it without all the stuff I found here, would have proven much more difficult and certainly for a poorer result

I won't slide the seat in rails. the rollers are just eye candy for my cockpit.
The seat will be plainly visible with my Viper2 cockpit, so I wanted it to be as beatiful as the real one. That is also why I decided to detail the seatpan sides, since they will be visible with a Viper2 type pit.
That is not the case with a Viper one and honnestly, I wouldn't have bothered to detail them if I were building a Viper1.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on September 02, 2004, 12:26:53 PM
Red Dog,

Ahh ok that makes sense now.  I think I forget that due to your lack of room you are doing the Viper2 approach.  Sometimes I wish I took that approach as well.

I would though fabricate some rails.  They make the seat look so much better!!  As well, be a hell of a lot easier to slide the rails on the seat then vice versa!  :?

Take care
Jody


Quote from: "Red Dog"
Jay, Thanks.
Hope you can get one.... In the meantime, I'll continue to look for it over here. Since we fly the F-16 as well; I might just get lucky :)

Marvin,
Quote
Everytime we learn from eachother and the next guy steps up to build his, he/she always adds something else to make it even more realistic.
Well that is simply because when you spend some time reading this forum, you get all the tips from all builders and then what else can you miss?
So it's because of the guys have started before me that I'm able to build mine. Doing it without all the stuff I found here, would have proven much more difficult and certainly for a poorer result

I won't slide the seat in rails. the rollers are just eye candy for my cockpit.
The seat will be plainly visible with my Viper2 cockpit, so I wanted it to be as beatiful as the real one. That is also why I decided to detail the seatpan sides, since they will be visible with a Viper2 type pit.
That is not the case with a Viper one and honnestly, I wouldn't have bothered to detail them if I were building a Viper1.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 06, 2004, 05:11:19 AM
Not much to show off this week. It was pretty dark when I finished yesterday so I couldn't take pix.

The seat has been completely assembled and the left side is detailled as well. All I still have to find out is the attachment of the O2 bottle. But I have good reference pix.

I placed two aluminium sheets on top of the seatpan sides so I can place all the goodies on the side of the seat like the emergency restraint handle and the seat arm lever, ....

The emergency restraint handle was done last week. The first try was done using a regular saw - no joy, then I milled a piece of wood but was quite unhappy with the result, so I decided to finally use three layers of 5mm PVC (hard plastic) glued together and milled that part according to the drawing and pictures I found here.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/057_restraint.jpg)
Here are the two parts. The MDF one is left unfinished.
The PVC one has been somewhat repaired from a bad move with the mill (yep, I'm still a neewbee with that stuff) and the exteriors corners have been rounded. Screws are regular computer screws.

I know the metal bar inside the handle is not reproduced well enough, but that will g-have to do for the time being. I have cheated so I could make the part easily with the mill.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/058_restraint.jpg)
The part prepainted in white

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/059_restraint.jpg)
And finally with a coat of gold colours. The metal bar inside was painted aluminium with a brush.
All left to do is a coat of varnish and then the wonderful graphics made by Angela.
By the way, Angela, if you read this, what support should I use to print them on? photo paper? ... Best bet would be a glue on white sheet, but I'd like to find a vinylic aspect  :?: 

Another part done was the straps? Since I couldn't find them from an ejection seat I built mine myself. I used some buckles from a Phantom ejection seat handle and some straps found in a local shop.
The I started sewing :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/060_straps.jpg)
I'm afraid this is not an activity were I shine :) Anyway, that's done - I'm glad I won't have to do the cushion myself...  :lol:


I spent some time thinking about wiring my ejection handle and the seat arm lever to my Xkeys - I'll probably use some microswitch to activate the handles so I can program them.
Something I might have thought about earlier but it should be still possible to integrate the switches....
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: nightowl on September 11, 2004, 06:54:02 AM
Hi Red Dog

Your seat is looking awesome. 8)  Cant wait to see how the rest of your cockpit is going to look based on the level of detail so far.

Love your model F16 also. Looks like a real work of art.  I have a similar Hasegawa F16 in 1:32 scale that I have hardly touched and it will be on the backburner for a few years yet, while I finish the 1:1 scale cockpit  :)

I cant get over the amount of work you are getting through. How the heck do you do it ?

I finally made the version 2 of the headrest plate and I think it has come out quite well. I've posted some photos on my progress report, so I hope these might at least give you some ideas that you can use.

Keep up the good work.

Cheers
nightowl
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 11, 2004, 02:04:32 PM
Thank you Nightowl

I have a bad habit (or a good one depending on how you see it) I never start a new project before the previous one is completely done.
Add to that that usually, If I don't finish it in a reasonable timeframe, I will probably get bored and abandon it - although that happened only a few time.

Sell that F-16 model, because Tamiya and Academy are coming up each with a beatiful modern F-16 in 1/32nd scale, It was  just announced for Tamiya. Once these two will be released, the old Hasegawa will show its age, no doubt.

Pretty good work on your hearest, I don't know if I will find the courage to redo mine in aluminium. I think I will use the wood one at least until the cockpit project is done  - I'm sure my fingers wil start to itch soon after I will have flown some hours in the new cockpit :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 11, 2004, 02:25:29 PM
Another saturday afternoon spent in the garage  :lol:
Bad thing is that I look forward to that moment for the whole week - Is it serious doc?

I placed the seat arm lever and the switch that will allow it to work in F4.
I made a hole in the woodwork to place the switch and calculated depth so it came level with the aluminium sheet. The cables are going inside the seat. The connection board for the Xkey will be located in the back rest.
(http://ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/065_armlever.jpg)

Here's the result when the aluminium sheet is placed. The button protrudes from the aluminium and the lever goes against it and makes contact.
(http://ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/066_armlever.jpg)

The initial plan was to place the same system on the knee protection for the other lever position but I'm afraid to destroy the knee protection in the process and I can't make the wires invisible. So one switch only  will have to do. Besides, We only have a toggle for that function do we?

Further back on the same side, I placed the emegency Oxygen system
Nothing special there - except maybe the brainfart I had while doing the hole lower on the side - Mastic to the rescue again :)
(http://ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/067_supportO2.jpg)

Going on to the other side, the equipment release knob with the draft label.
(http://ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/068_equiprelease.jpg)
That was easily done on the lathe with plain aluminium - then inserted in the woodwork

I decided to make an opening on the back of the backrest. That was dictated by the need to wire the seat and do some maintenance work if needed. So I placed an access panel that is closed with magnets.
Not so realistic but pretty useful IMHO
(http://ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/064_door.jpg)

That door allowed me to place the seatbelt mechanism given by JAK - Thanks Mate, I owe you one :) - inside the seat and test the system by extending the belt to the straps retention point: It will work like a charm - once the straps are in place !

(http://ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/069_seatbelt.jpg)
The seatbelt reel locked in place. Notice the wires from the seat arm lever.

(http://ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/070_seatbelt.jpg)
The seatbelt will eventually come up there and the straps will go through the rollers...  :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on September 12, 2004, 07:03:36 AM
Hi Red Dog, nice to see the seatbelt mechanisme build in. Now I want to place mine also :D. I was also thinking of making a access panel in the back. So I can place the seatbelt, maybe a suwoover, and for easy acces to some electronics :wink: The hinge for your seat arm lever is made of the same piece of aluminium that you used for the upper side of the left seat side?(I hope you could follow that :? ) That would be a option in my seat also :wink: (been thinking how to do that, I stopped now :wink:  :D ). I dont know if I'm gonna use aluminium for the side upper plates. I'm dumpster diving at work to find some long and wide enough pieces of metal. With a thickness of about 4mm(I personaly think that aluminium is bend to easily, and because of the small thickness it almost reacts as a razorblade :wink: )
Keep up the excellent work, when I see the pictures my hands are itching :D  :D  
Greetings,
J.A.K.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 12, 2004, 04:01:17 PM
Hey Jak,
The hinge is actually another part. Normally, there's a wood insert glued to the aluminium but it was not in place for the picture... now where the heck is that small part  :oops:

For those of you interested, here are my drawing for all the small parts up to now. I hope they are not too heavy. Dimensions are in mm, and bear with me, I'm no pro at drawing.

When I needed to make a part in an aluminium sheet, I made a copy of the drawing and used the copy as a paper template for the part. Once checked; I started cutting the 0.5mm aluminium sheet. Cutting was done with a sharp cutter in multiple passes (and a lot of new sharp blades were used in the process)along a metal ruler. A pair of heavy scissors was used for the curves.

No special stuff to know except to take great care of your fingers  :?

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/071_template.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/072_template.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/073_template.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/074_template.jpg)

Hope it helps.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 12, 2004, 04:43:21 PM
thanks for sharing those RD, nice drawings
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 13, 2004, 07:45:59 AM
I want to say that the dimensions are not from real seats. So I'm responsible for all errors.

The main sources used were the drawings on the verlinden book and some measures were simply decided according to pictures on the web.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on September 13, 2004, 11:12:32 AM
Cool, that will go in the library :D
J.A.K.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on September 13, 2004, 09:19:58 PM
Would you like a better source?  Here's the real deal, I can take whatever measurements you like:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/jfagner/ACES%20II/DCP_4305.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/jfagner/ACES%20II/DCP_4304.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/jfagner/ACES%20II/DCP_4302.jpg)

I will qualify, if you need any measurements, it may not be for a couple of weeks as I'm going to England and Spain for a couple of weeks beginning next week.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 14, 2004, 03:04:11 AM
Interesting pictures, Thanks for sharing Jay  :D
Don't worry about measurements, the part is done anyway and I won't bother redo it since I'm pretty happy with the one I have - but thanks for the offer!

Have a good time in England and Spain - I guess you'll pay a visit to the Realsimulator team i'm sure  :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 16, 2004, 04:18:25 AM
Can't resist posting some pix of the paintwork.

The seat was primed in white last week-end and I applied a coat of Gull gray Tuesday afternoon.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/075_peinture.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/076_peinture.jpg)

I applied the paint with a brush and a mini roll. Now I will spray a lighter gray from a can so the recessed details stays darker and the protruding details become lighter (model technique :) )

And I also made a car kit for my cell phone, so my wife can call me when I need to leave the sim for supper  8)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/077_gsm.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on September 16, 2004, 06:26:57 AM
The cell phone is hilarious!!  :lol:

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Hack on September 16, 2004, 06:46:12 AM
Wow, that is simply awesome. I cant wait to see what the rest is going to look like. Have you sat in it and made Vroom Vroom sounds yet?


Justin
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 16, 2004, 07:35:39 AM
Justin, you bet I did :)
That got me a weirdo look from the neibourhood. Not to mention that eveybody in the building has been wondering what that wacko from the first floor is doing in the garage for the past 10 weeks  :lol:

They think it's a chair for the baby ...  :roll:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Feathers on September 16, 2004, 10:01:01 AM
RD,
GREAT work.  The detail on the lower section looks just like the real thing.
Jim
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 16, 2004, 01:27:47 PM
Nice work, post some more pics when you spray over it so we can see it.

looks like a real seat to my eyes :shock:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on September 16, 2004, 01:56:22 PM
O.K. Red Dog when did you buy a real aces :D  :wink:  It looks awesome :shock:  :D  :shock:  :D  :shock:  :D
J.A.K.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 20, 2004, 03:19:16 AM
Thanks Guys
Jak - Shhht don't tell anybody  8)

The second coat of gray was applied with a can and then, the whole seat was coated in matt varnish - also from a can. That should protect the paintwork a little from my future abuse.

I have an oxygen bottle getting lost between germany and my home - so I couldn't finish the left side - but the right one is about completed :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/082_droit.jpg)
The cables are rubber hose for car - the restraint stuff are dummies made of wood and aluminium sheets.  Notice the first placard I placed from Gwen wonderful set  :D
I also cut the back rest below so to give a better stability of the seat and at the same time give a better angle.
Damn, I forgot to get those two tape pieces of the knee protections !

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/080_droit.jpg)
Detail of the rubber hose stuff.
The main part has been machined on the lathe and I used some large spacers to make it look like real - although I believe the main part is a little too big! The special washer with the vertical part on it was done with a small candle for keeping the meal warm. It was cut to size and glued on one of the spacers.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/083_face.jpg)
Made some test for the seatbelts and the homemade straps - still need to finish that headrest!
I also found some real cushions, so I'll soon be able to replace the blue ones  -  although I'm getting used to them

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/084_beltpin.jpg)
And finally a question - Anybody knows what I'm supposed to do with these two pins? I remember from a previous discussion that is was to maintain the belt in place. Where should I make the retention holes for those?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on September 20, 2004, 10:12:41 AM
Those pins hold in little bungee type straps that hold the risers in place.  Here's a picture:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v174/jfagner/ACES%20II/0004_035.jpg)

Those pins hold the bungee in place.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on September 20, 2004, 10:41:27 AM
Red Dog,

Are those real cushions?  I have the real buttom (black fuzzy) cushion but still waiting for the back cushion from Chad..  I am thinking about just replicating the fur.  If yours are fake, they look pretty good!  Where did you score the material?

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on September 20, 2004, 11:06:17 AM
Nice job RD :D
J.A.K.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 20, 2004, 01:55:32 PM
That is one wicked looking seat!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on September 21, 2004, 06:52:59 AM
What an amazing job RD!  Keep up the great work (and keep posting pics ;))
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 21, 2004, 07:33:44 AM
Jay,
Thanks for the picture ... I don't have these bungees straps but I might have an idea on how to make them. In the worst case scenario, I will not install them and simply use the smaller pin to secure the risers on the backrest. That should be enough since the risers don't have to keep my body in place at high G in the sim  :?

Marvin,
Now how will I explain that in plain english?
the cushion are actually a triple layer of high density foam. The fabric was not done by me but by the mother of a friend... :wink:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/046_cushion.jpg)
It's not really fur, it's a thick fabric - the kind you place on beds to protect the sheets...like a bed cover if you see what I mean ... ? I would guess any fabric shop should have that stuff.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on September 21, 2004, 07:54:54 AM
Jody, I too, have the black fuzzy bottom and part of the back.  I am missing the pad that velcros onto the back of the main back pad.  I was planning on making that from the type of foam above and finding a sheepskin car seat cover and chopping that up and sewing the pieces together.

All those cords are are stretchy elastic cord with some tube cloth on the outside.  I don't think it would be too hard to make those.  They will keep the risers in place and out of the way.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on September 21, 2004, 09:25:21 AM
Jay,

Cool, sounds like you are closer then I am then! ;)  What does that back piece do anyway?  I mean I know it exists, but for what purpose??  I thought abou doing that as well..

I actually, removed the original buttom foam as it was very thick and hard.  (good God did I just use those two words in a sentence?)  I used normal softer foam from a fabric store, and my bum likes it better! ;)

As for the bear skin fabric stuff, I think that will be hard to match..  I went to a fabric store and still have not found anything to really match it yet.  I might put a green one on for now, until I get a better match.

Jody

Quote from: "Crease-Guard"
Jody, I too, have the black fuzzy bottom and part of the back.  I am missing the pad that velcros onto the back of the main back pad.  I was planning on making that from the type of foam above and finding a sheepskin car seat cover and chopping that up and sewing the pieces together.

All those cords are are stretchy elastic cord with some tube cloth on the outside.  I don't think it would be too hard to make those.  They will keep the risers in place and out of the way.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on September 21, 2004, 09:27:12 AM
Red Dog,

Don't sweat it..  Your English is great as far as I am concerned..  Thanks for the information!

Take care
Jody

Quote from: "Red Dog"
Jay,
Thanks for the picture ... I don't have these bungees straps but I might have an idea on how to make them. In the worst case scenario, I will not install them and simply use the smaller pin to secure the risers on the backrest. That should be enough since the risers don't have to keep my body in place at high G in the sim  :?

Marvin,
Now how will I explain that in plain english?
the cushion are actually a triple layer of high density foam. The fabric was not done by me but by the mother of a friend... :wink:
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/046_cushion.jpg)
It's not really fur, it's a thick fabric - the kind you place on beds to protect the sheets...like a bed cover if you see what I mean ... ? I would guess any fabric shop should have that stuff.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 21, 2004, 02:21:14 PM
I saw sheepskin rugs on an endcap at Sam's Club a few months back, of coarse the ACES popped into my head immediately. Check em out Jay.

Quote from: "Crease-Guard"
Jody, I too, have the black fuzzy bottom and part of the back.  I am missing the pad that velcros onto the back of the main back pad.  I was planning on making that from the type of foam above and finding a sheepskin car seat cover and chopping that up and sewing the pieces together.

All those cords are are stretchy elastic cord with some tube cloth on the outside.  I don't think it would be too hard to make those.  They will keep the risers in place and out of the way.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Hack on September 21, 2004, 08:42:21 PM
Red Dog,
     Man, That looks incredible. I dont know what else to say about it.  Very, very cool.  

Justin
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 10, 2004, 03:12:59 PM
It's been a while but I decided to work on the seat today  :lol:
The work today was minor detail like placing the ejection handle and decalling, I also worked on the left side - even if I still expect the O2 bottle and the lock reel.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/090_release.jpg)
I placed the part for the RBF tag - even if it's the the real one, that will do and put some colours on that seat. The handle is a dummy anyway - since I think I will never need to pull that one  :idea:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/091_ejection.jpg)
This one I will need :) Although it's not wired yet  :idea:
It's a reproduction in silicon of the real one. It's very nice and I like it a lot  :wink:
I also need to place the belts on the seatpan to secure the cushion in place. The cushion is a real one declassed by the BAF.
Notice the label kit by Gwen :) Pretty nice work over there. I printed them on sticker paper and covered the whole with transparent sheet of plastic - the one we use to cover the books of the children.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/087_detail_droit.jpg)
Some details of the right side with labels. the aces 2 sticker is in an unusual place but I've seen picture of that location, so I know there is no two seat with the same label kit. That allows us some liberty :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/089_detail_haut.jpg)
Some close up of the head of the seat. the rubber headrest are not the final ones, I'm still looking for a decent material. The reason why I place the aces label at this place is so it stays visible once the FDR will be installed.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/088_droit.jpg)
General view of the right side.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/092_gauche.jpg)
General view of the left side.

I'm obviously nearing the end :) I need to make that lock reel handle since i really doubt I will ever be able to get one. The Oxygen bottle will be placed during the week. Then some more paintwork to give that seat some more used look.

And after that I'll make a report of all the errors on the reproduction ...
And start the cockpit for reel  :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on October 10, 2004, 03:23:53 PM
A wonderful project RD, the seat looks absolutely amazing! Thanks for sharing all the wonderful pics of it.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on October 10, 2004, 04:56:22 PM
Red Dog!

Pardon my french...  But that F&*King rocks!!  :lol:   (kidding on the french bit again)

Serious though, excellent work!  I am so happy to see my parachute container finally has a use now!  I purchased that thing in 1999 and was sitting collection dust until it found its way to you!

Excellent job brother!

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nutty on October 10, 2004, 04:59:57 PM
Yet another damned seat that puts mine totally to shame! I'm not one to use the word "awesome" much bud, but that really is an awesome achievement.

Many congratulations!

Great stuff.

Nutty
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: falcon24 on October 10, 2004, 06:26:41 PM
Great work Red Dog, That ACES is beautiful 8)

Dave
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on October 10, 2004, 06:29:46 PM
Quote from: "Marvin"
Jay,

Cool, sounds like you are closer then I am then! ;)  What does that back piece do anyway?  I mean I know it exists, but for what purpose??  I thought abou doing that as well..

I actually, removed the original buttom foam as it was very thick and hard.  (good God did I just use those two words in a sentence?)  I used normal softer foam from a fabric store, and my bum likes it better! ;)

As for the bear skin fabric stuff, I think that will be hard to match..  I went to a fabric store and still have not found anything to really match it yet.  I might put a green one on for now, until I get a better match.

Jody


Somehow I missed this post Jody.  The back rest I have has two component to it; 1) The main back rest that fits to the seat back and 2) a back cushion that velcros to this back pad.  I am missing the cushion part but have the back pad.  I'd take a picture, but my camera is with my wife.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on October 10, 2004, 08:36:30 PM
Quote from: "Crease-Guard"


Somehow I missed this post Jody.  The back rest I have has two component to it; 1) The main back rest that fits to the seat back and 2) a back cushion that velcros to this back pad.  I am missing the cushion part but have the back pad.  I'd take a picture, but my camera is with my wife.

Jay

Jay,

No worries dude..  I found some pics and pretty much figured out it's purpose.

Take care
Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on October 11, 2004, 03:27:57 AM
OH - MY - GOD!

*bowingbeforeRedDog*
Congrats, that's an absolute masterpiece of ACES, RedDog!
Looks like you've put your scalemodel experiences into good use...

keep up!!!

greetings
michi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: drit on October 11, 2004, 03:37:14 AM
Excellent work Red Dog,
It realy looks real, I'm jealous.
Great amout of details, that shows how patient you are.

Drit
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on October 11, 2004, 10:26:18 AM
DROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL :roll:  Wow RD :D nice nice nice :D
Jaap
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 11, 2004, 01:08:33 PM
Thanks guys - Nothing would have been possible without Viperpit :)

Marvin, you container holds a special place in my room now, thanks for sending it to me, I would never have started such an adventure without that part.

It looks fine in the pictures but they are some mistakes in the seat I'm not too proud off, I'll make a report of that soon so that future buiders can avoid thoses traps :)

Thanks for the nice words all :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: nightowl on October 14, 2004, 03:27:58 AM
Hi Red Dog

Your seat looks awesome.  You have done a brilliant job and  I am very envious, as I still have a long way to go with my own .
I will be very happy if mine looks that cool when it is finished   :D  

I was thinking of making either a silicone or rubber eject handle myself using a mould . Do you have any tips on working with the silicone especially how to get the yellow colour .

Cheers
nightowl
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 03, 2004, 05:26:17 AM
Nightowl, Sorry for the late answer.
Best way to add the yellow colour is to do it in your liquid silicon before moulding. Painting it afterwards will be impossible. That's the way it was done for mine, although I'm not the guy who has moulded it.

The O2 bottle is finally on the seat  :o
It was tricky to do the central part that hold the bottle on the seat and careful calculation was required. It wad done in a two parts assembly. The bottle is held by the second part that is screwed on the first one.
I also made a special plastic part to cover the hole in the seatpan side where the cable from the lock reel should go!
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/095_O2.jpg)

The headrest cushions were done as well. For material, I used ceiling isolation stuff called STYRODUR and made by BASF. The good thing about it is that it can be sanded. All cuts were done with a foam cutting electrical wire. It was then painted with tamiya modelist spray paint.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/094_headrest.jpg)
Looks good enough fo me. I even made some scratches in it and the good thing is that I can drybrush it with a lighter grey to give it a used look.

Save for the lock reel handle, the seat is finished.
That concludes part one of my journey to cockpit Nirvana. Next step is to build the Viper2 cockpit and I started already collecting data for the centre console.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/096_final.jpg)
That's my simming place. between the bed and the office :) Now you understand why I can't build a full cockpit   :(
On the bright side, When I wake up in the morning, I have exactly the same view as the backseat of a F-16B :?  My wife as well  :wink:

Hopefully, next time we move I'll have a room of my own....

I also made a complete building report on my website... in french... maybe I'll translate it in english someday but most of the stuff is here anyway...
http://users.skynet.be/fb011080/cockpit_aces_intro.htm
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on November 03, 2004, 06:48:22 AM
Wow Red Dog!  That is really amazing work.  Thanks for the great pics.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: drit on November 03, 2004, 08:42:56 AM
congratulations, you have it now  :)
It should be realy cool flying on that.
Great write on your site to.
drit
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 03, 2004, 09:16:17 AM
Yep Dritan,
It's as cool as the real thing... after half an hour you get hurt in the back as in the real jet  :P

Damn what have I done  :?:  My previous seat was much more comfortable  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: drit on November 03, 2004, 09:28:01 AM
hahahaha,

maybe I'll wait for IKEA to sell comfortable aces  :)
who said IKEA stuff is comfortable ?   :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Hack on November 03, 2004, 11:04:27 AM
Wow Red Dog. That seat is amazing. You have really done a fantastic job.
Thanks for putting up pictures of it for us to drool over.


Justin
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on November 04, 2004, 03:03:04 PM
Nice to see the building steps on your site(I only follow some lines, stupid me to dont pay attention at French class :wink: ). Its a nice "bible" for new Aces builders :D
Cant wait to see the work on your Viper2 pit :D  :D  8)  8)
Greets,
Jaap
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on November 04, 2004, 03:16:11 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Yep Dritan,
It's as cool as the real thing... after half an hour you get hurt in the back as in the real jet  :P

Damn what have I done  :?:  My previous seat was much more comfortable  :lol:

I used to get stiff sitting in the seat at first but now that I'm used to it I actually find it pretty comfortable.  I could use a new seat cushion though as I have made permanent tushy imprints in mine that have thinned out the foam :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on November 04, 2004, 04:42:38 PM
Quote from: "Flareless"
I used to get stiff sitting in the seat at first ....

Dude, that's a little more info than we need... 8)  8)

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ruprecht on November 04, 2004, 07:19:38 PM
Amazing stuff Red Dog...
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 22, 2004, 06:32:56 AM
I'm in the process of gathering goodies and brainstorming about the next step wich is the buiding of the cockpit mainframe in wood.

I'd need your help and advice and I can't think of a better place to ask my questions.

First, I'd like to know what would be the best height for the Side console?
That's a pretty difficult question since there are many variables involved. But let's take it this way:
I'd like to know the distance between your seat (top edge of the knee protection) to the base of the Cougar handle (say the grey locking ring?)
I'd also need your seat angle as well.
Any other rule or trick  you have can help me as well ...

Secondly, since I'm building a Viper2 style pit done with 2 small side consoles and the front center console and the 2 aux panels, I have the question of the lower part of the center console. Since there is no tub (floor) the center console foot needs to be longer so it comes in contact with the ground. At this time, I'm wondering if it would be better to stick to real dimensions and build the tub as well or to go as planned and make the center console longer so it goes on the ground.
Any tips?

At the same place - The width of the center console foot id too large for me since I plan to use my Flight link hydraulic rudder which is quite small compared to a Simped or a RS rudder. So I'd need to decrease the width of the cc foot or enlarge the rudder pedals...
Any tips ?

I understand these questions are pretty complicated? I've been debating with myself the pros and cons for the past two week and the left part of my brain didn't find an agreement with the right part!
So I need to be lead in any of the two direction  :roll:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on November 22, 2004, 12:32:28 PM
I would build a tub floor for your aces and a real dimensioned CC, then I would widen my peddles, stregthen the hell out of the short side consoles, you will need those for bracing to climb in. I think you will find that once you get away from real dimensioned componants, its a snowball effect that will effect you on all later addons you may put to your desk type pit, who knows in a couple of years you may have more room  and you can just expand upon your project your building now, into a full scale cockpit. Thats how I would approach it myself.

(edit) also I would put the whole thing on some nice casters.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on November 22, 2004, 12:54:00 PM
RD,

I would get a copy of Joe's plans for the tub.  Not really sure how accurate they are, but seriously who cares.  We can sit here all we want and try to make an accurate cockpit down to the inch.  But in the end, I don't care what anyone says, it will not be perfect.  Its all about how you feel about it, and how it looks.

Take mine for instance, it is not 100% accurate.  I made the ACES II about an inch wider for my size and comfort.  So as Mike said, this started a chain reaction, where I had to make the tub wider, the instrument panel wider etc. etc.  But if you look at my cockpit can you really tell it is wider?  Or does it really stand out??  If anyone looked at my pit at this upcoming airshow, and said hey nice pit, but it is not 100% accurate.  I would simply say where is your cockpit?  :lol:

One note though..  The first cockpit I build back in 1999 was the same as the 1/12 scale model.  And when you put your controls in there, it is VERY DIFFICULT to climb in without shell to support yourself.  So you my want to consider some type of railing to get in?

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on November 22, 2004, 09:19:53 PM
If you're patient and can wait, Jason will be making stencil sets for the tub and hull to go with the console and instrument panels.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Angela Deth on November 22, 2004, 10:03:06 PM
WOW RD!!! I haven't been keeping up with your progress lately but damn!  That's incredible stuff you're doing.  Keep up the great work  :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 23, 2004, 04:35:47 AM
Kabar,
Thanks for the input.
Well, indeed, I might lenghten the side consoles when I have more room later in life. :) Drit actually told me that I was building a full pit but that I just didn't know it yet  :o
By the way, what is a caster? Looked into the dictionnary but came up dry?

Marvin,
I agree with you about the small adaptation we do in our pits. It has too look right but we all have some sort of compromises to do.
The way I will get into the pit is by rolling the seat backwards and then sit and roll inside. That's part of the plan to leave the console on the floor and have the seat not as much reclined as the real deal.
Obviously, If I make a tub with the correct angle for the seat, I will not able to enter the pit in such a way.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on November 23, 2004, 06:55:21 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Marvin,
I agree with you about the small adaptation we do in our pits. It has too look right but we all have some sort of compromises to do.
The way I will get into the pit is by rolling the seat backwards and then sit and roll inside. That's part of the plan to leave the console on the floor and have the seat not as much reclined as the real deal.
Obviously, If I make a tub with the correct angle for the seat, I will not able to enter the pit in such a way.

RD,

Hey that is a good idea!!  Never thought about rolling into the pit?  I still think you could keep the incline angle though, and still be able to roll into position!

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on November 23, 2004, 07:37:40 AM
RD, a caster is a type of wheel that usually goes on heavy furniture or equipment.  I typically has a metal base the screws to the item to be rolled and then the wheel pivots on a bearing to allow the "driver" to "steer" the item being moved.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 23, 2004, 08:27:13 AM
Marvin,
The seat is actually a little reclined but not as much as the real one (I miss about 15? degrees from the 36(?) of the real Aces
I can easily change that by inserting a width betweens the seat and the wheels

Jay,
Thanks - those are the same I used on the seat :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 07, 2005, 04:45:45 AM
I hereby declare WINTER over in the Northen hemisphere!

Tired of waiting better temperature for working in the garage, I decided that it was warm enough to start working again on my cockpit - the planning phase has lasted enough!

So I started cutting wood using the excellent stencils made by Killn. I must say, I'm impressed. I cut along the lines of the stencils and placed a center panel from a F16A (block15) and the glareshield edges are perfectly matching -way to go Jason :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/114_stencils.jpg)

I decided to make the front panel in one part of MDF 18mm for solidity issues. If needed - I will be able to cut the MDF later to accomodate the center console and the ICP mount if necessary.
Since I will use dummies instrument, I don't really need to make the cutout in the panel, except maybe for the DED and RWR coming with the UCC. This might change in the future since the instrument will be dummies but may be backlighted...

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/116_frontpanel.jpg)
The panel is cut and the real one is placed on top of it... perfect match on the glareshield edges, that was quite important.

I also made some modification on the MFD support. Especially on the MFD cutout. So far, I don't have any plans to place LCDs or Crts into these, I'll again place a dummy screen backlighet as in my current setup.

I am certainly wrong but I had the feeling that the MFD cutout in the support is too large for my MFD bezels - especially on the lower angled corners... I was afraid that these holes might be visible.
Besides, I want to use the 4 corner MFD srews to attach the bezels on the support - with Killn drawing these screws cannot connect to the support. That is quite normal since I assume they are meant to be attached to the CRT going though the support!

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/117_MFDsupport.jpg)
Here's the modified support - I also placed a notch for the cables coming out of ther Mfds.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/118_MFDsupport.jpg)
Same but with the MFd installed.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/120_MFDsupport.jpg)
Then I tested the paper template and the MFD in to the wood panel.

All I needed to do was cut two such parts in 4mm MFD and that was easily done.
At this time I couldn't resist doing some dry fittings of different parts :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/119_drytest.jpg)

Next on the agenda is the construction of the MISC support panel, I tested the two MISC panel I have here and I have some concern to install them...
Here they are over the drawings:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/122_Misc.jpg)
that's a real Misc panel from a block15 F16A and fitting is much better - although this time, the panel is longer... Normal I guess since the MISC panel are quite different from older blocks F-16 to MLU.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/121_Misc.jpg)
That's an AGT MISC panel but obviously, it doesn't fit at all. I'm concerned because that's the one I planned to use and it's supposed to be a block 50 part, so I need to investigate more on this to find a suitable solution.

And finally, last picture of the front panel dry fitted under the glareshield.
Now I really need to find that missing left glareshield part.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/123_assembly.jpg)

I'm back in the saddle :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Hack on March 07, 2005, 11:55:38 AM
Looks great Red Dog. Do you know how you are planning to backlight your instruments? Looking forward to seeing your progress.


Justin
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on March 07, 2005, 01:05:01 PM
Here's the way if progresses Olivier, you see those static gauges in your half center console? You will be putting working or glass instruments in there before long,,those backlit MFD's? Yea, as soon as we see data out,,in goes TFT monitors. Why deny yourself  :P ! Before you know it, you have the assend of an F-16 pit hanging out the wall of your bedroom.  :shock:

Excelent work! :partyman:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Catcher on March 07, 2005, 02:27:22 PM
Way to go Olivier :supz:

Catcher.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on March 07, 2005, 03:18:50 PM
Awesome work RD!  Like Mike says, it just gets away from you once you get started.  Thanks for the pics.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on March 07, 2005, 03:35:04 PM
amazing work.

now why didn't i get those drawings yet ?  hmm

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 08, 2005, 09:20:03 AM
Thanks guys,

Mike, I know that actually :) I just don't want to admit it ...yet  :oops:

Justin,
I'll start with the round ones and make the cylinder in aluminium (not too deep) with my lathe. the end of the cylinder will be kind of conical if possible. In the top of the internal pyramid , I'll insert a led or a serie of them according to the light level I will need.
That aluminium cylinder will go into the front panel (or the right aux panel)
Then I'll place a notch inside the cylinder to be able to place a transparent sheet preprinted with the drawing of the instrument. Then the needle but I don't know how I will make that one backlighted yet...

Then a cover made in aluminium also will go on top of the protruding part of the cylinder. Inside that cover will go a plexiglass

I guess a picture will be better than that explanation...
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Anonymous on March 08, 2005, 10:59:52 PM
Great post!!  RD nice work and thanks for the kind words buddy!!   :beer:  Keep us posted with more pics   :D  I hope this shows everybody that you don't need a mill to use the stencils.  Seeing your progress has me excited to get back to doing Cad!  Real life is kind of kicking my ass right now though.


Cheers,
Jason
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 09, 2005, 03:50:20 AM
Thanks Killn - I know real life constraints :) but it's good to hear you're excited to get back into CAD work, because I'll soon need the LEFT AUX section of your drawings :) :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 22, 2005, 05:05:57 AM
Work has continued on the front panel starting from the right side and working to the left.

I spend the whole week-end doing the Right part of the panel that protrudes from the main panel and featuring the 4 gauges for the OIL, NOZ POS, RPM and FTIT.

The panel itself is made with MDF, the gauges are turned on the lathe in aluminium and have a recess where I place a cercle in clear plexi on which is glued the instrument sticker.
The graphics are custom made with Photoshop and print hi res.
Then a cover in aluminium as well with a clear sheet of plexi for the glass is screwed on the top of the gauge.
The needles are done in resin but I think I will redo them in clear plexiglass.

The whole set is backlighted but before posting pictures of that, I need to work a little bit more on the needles.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/124_rightinstruments.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/125_rightinstruments.jpg)

The graphics are draft and not glued yet - and the needles are just placed for the picture - I forgot one actually :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on March 22, 2005, 06:49:38 AM
Great work Red Dog.  The panel looks terrific!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on March 22, 2005, 03:00:35 PM
Nice!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Angela Deth on March 22, 2005, 04:57:18 PM
Nice work RD.  Are you planning to make those instruments functional?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on March 22, 2005, 05:21:40 PM
That looks pretty darn nice.  The needle on the FTIT gauge looks spot on.  No you gotta put a little drive motor behind there toget them a workin'

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 22, 2005, 05:56:24 PM
Thanks Guys,
I can't take credit for the needles because they were moulded on real ones by another guy. But since I can't backlight them I will need to redo them in transparent plexiglass.
My aircraft model comes in handy in this business :)

As for making these working, no plans for that now. It's quite possible in the future without changing the casing but I want to speed it up so I can finally fly in a cockpit :) So I'll first finish the front office.
My seat is feeling lonely without the front panel
 :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 23, 2005, 05:42:12 AM
I also cut the ADI support from the A model glareshield so I could reposition the DED box between the backup ADI and the glareshield.
the glareshield front and keft protruding edges have been milled as well to allow easy integration of the DED box

Dry test fitting:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/126_righconsole.jpg)

And with the stuff populating the panel:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/127_righconsole.jpg)

Next test is to place that LCD ded on the glareshield and put a DED box with a 45? mirror in it so I can see the DED strings when seating in the cockpit.
That was the solution the beta test team found while discussing Sharknoir UCC project . As you know, The LCD PCB are larger than the LCD and will be difficult to integrate as is in a cockpit. We hope the mirror at 45? will be the good compromise.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on March 23, 2005, 05:48:26 AM
cool.

but you'll have to write the letters backwords or upside down if you use a mirror.

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 23, 2005, 05:53:39 AM
Good point  :)
That's already done ... by Sharknoir who I think I will change his callsign to Zorro - the man faster than his shadow  :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on March 23, 2005, 09:07:50 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Good point  :)
That's already done ... by Sharknoir who I think I will change his callsign to Zorro - the man faster than his shadow  :P

Wasn't that Lucky Luke?

(http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/2645/img/luke/lukebak3.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Anonymous on March 23, 2005, 07:48:51 PM
Sweet!  Very nice work! :beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 09, 2005, 04:38:44 AM
May is the time of the long week-end in Europe due to some holidays and I compromised with my wife to be allowed to work on my cockpit project during one of them. I chose the longest one :)
So the last 4 days were devoted to modify the Right aux console from a F16A which needs intensive surgery to be placed to MLU standards.

The first step was to cover the badly placed instrument holes - regular plasticard and cyanocrylate glue was used for that from the back of the panel.
Note also the Warning light panel - that one was completely stripped and all 28v lights bulbs were replaced with 5v white leds that are driven by the UCC. That was a full week nightime job but it works like a charm.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/128_auxright_mod1.jpg)

The big panel hole also needs work so I can place the LCD for the PFD. There isn't a lot of room over there to place the LCD PCB so I had to cut down some strengtheners inside of the console. But it won't have to endure high G anymore
Again plasticard was used to make a new template for the screen anf filling the hole at the same time. Here's the dry fit test:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/129_auxright_mod2.jpg)

The next step is to reinforce the plasticard with fiberglass and filling those holes with the same product.
I also made a new support for the compass since on MLU models it's placed more forward than on older F-16. Again plasticard was used to make the casing.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/130_auxright_mod3.jpg)

Then the new instrument circles were drawn on the metal so i could start thinking of a way to bore these holes.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/131_auxright_mod4.jpg)

The compass casing was also reinforced with fiberglass and glued to the console. The new instrument holes were drilled through the metal and fiberglass without too much of a problem - except I couldn't use a good tool to bore the larger instrument holes and had to finish the work with a file - that took a very long time. But when we love, we don't count  :cry:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/134_auxright_mod5.jpg)
here's a close up shot - Yeah, i know they are not very round but I promise, nothing will be visible when finished
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/135_auxright_mod6.jpg)

The same view but this time the new homemade instrument structure are placed. These are from turned aluminium - Done the same way as the right frontpanel instrument explained higher in the thread
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/136_auxright_mod7.jpg)

Dry test of the compass:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/137_compas.jpg)

Luckily the left aux was much easier to modify since only the flaps indicator needed filling.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/138_leftaux.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on May 09, 2005, 08:44:41 AM
Oliver, very nice work there.  I, too, have to do some surgery on my aux panels.  A couple of questions:  first, what is the hole dimension on the left aux panel where the aux threat sits?  Also, what is plasticard? Is this similar to what we call "posterboard".  And, when you did the holes, you said you reinforced it with fiberglass.  Did you just use the epoxy resin stuff like bondo, or did you lay sheets of fiberglass in there as well?  Also, do you have any more detailed pics of the compass mod there?  I have to do that as well and your idea is really clever.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 09, 2005, 12:24:26 PM
Thanks Jay,

I'll be glad to help

The hole of the TWA is 63.44 x 43.12mm

Plasticard is actually genuine plastic sheets. They come in different width and are made (mostly) by a company named Evergreen. You find those in model shops or art shops. I use a lot of that materials when doing aircraft scale models.

The stuff I caled fibreglass is indeed a two component paste that you have to mix together for the stuff to harden. I didn't use any fiberglass sheets but the product is heavily based on fiberglass and produces the same effect.

I expected the request for more details of the Compass stuff, since I know a lot of guys have the right aux console... so here they are:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/140_compass_detail.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/139_compass_detail.jpg)
The casing is done with 6 sheets of 1.5mm plastic sheet (What I call plasticard)
1. is the front plate with the hole for the compass
2. is the top
3,4 and 5 are the left sides following the design of the console
6 is the right straight side

The dims are mm and all should be given on the above drawing, but if you have any more reques, i'll be glad to help.

The sheets are simply glued together with cyano glue and I placed internal strenghtener (square plastic section od 1.5mm and 2mm were allowed.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/141_compass_detail.jpg)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/142_compass_detail.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 09, 2005, 01:38:28 PM
Nice work Olivier!!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on May 09, 2005, 02:56:27 PM
That's great stuff Oliver.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 30, 2005, 04:31:49 AM
Work on the AUX consoles is nearing completion.
I got a chaff and flare panel from Jim on ebay in the interim time until we get working CMDS or EWMS panels. that won't be realistic for a MLU cockpit but as I said, it's interim.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/143_leftaux.jpg)
The gear panel is AGT (with the still missing parts) but i'll probably get rid of it as soon as I have a better gear panel.
I also need to start working on the gear lever box.

The rightaux is almost complete as well. I just need to make the dummy cabin pressure gauge and some minor details ...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/146_rightaux.jpg)
The PFD LCD is inserted and I just need to make box in plasticard, it was a hell of a job to get it aligned correctly (I had to file some edges of the LCD PCB.
The warning light panel is interfced with the UCC as well and fully functionnal. I just miss the ENGINE FAULT indicator but no big deal, i'll mke my own.

The Compass and the clock are real ones found on ebay. the clock is pretty old since I was told it was taken from a B17 crashlanded in UK in 1944. I don't know if it's correct  :?:

The dummies gauges where done with photoshop and laser printed on a transparent sheet. Then I glued a sheet of silk paper then I glued on transparent .5mm PVC.
The graphichs where then inserted in the turned homemde bezels, and the instrument cap was placed on top of the assembly.
The instrumenst are backlighted with a 5v light or diode that goes into the bezel. the silk paper makes for good backlight while keeping the letters on the bezels white when no backlight is used. The needles were homemade in transparent PVC from 1 to 2mm thick then painted black where appropriate.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/147_rightaux.jpg)
On some bezels, I added coloured tape as in the real ones to give some remarquable points or range as in the 2 HYD gauges. I still need to write the text on the small wood part that is attached with bluetack for the moment.

Here's a shot of the rightaux with the UCC connected and in F4  :lol:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/148_rightaux.jpg)
And a closeup : The visible green edges on the PFD screen will be hidden by the small casing I plan to make for the PFD in plastic
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/149_rightaux.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 30, 2005, 04:42:35 AM
I also worked on the MISC part.
The MLU, block50 is larger than the F16A part attached to the left glareshield. So I added a piece of MDF to the side of the MISC support and filled the curve with fiberglass paste that was sanded according to the curve.

Here's a alignement test of the MISC panel on the MISC support
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/144_misc.jpg)

The misc panel has been removed and as you can see, i filled some gaps in the misc support that were for F16A MISC configuration. I still need to bore some new ones. The resin is being sanded.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/145_misc.jpg)

Anybody know if vishay makes white backlight leds?
I'd prefer to backlight my panels in white but regular leds don't do a 100% satisfying result. If anyone has an idea, I'd be interested.

This one was also finished during the week-end:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/150_instruments.jpg)

I also am ready to start working on light indicators and pushbuttons.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/151_stencils.jpg)
I made the graphics with photoshop thanks to your help on button dimensions  :) - By using the stencils and coloured PVC sheets from yellow to red and with dark grey sheets, I will be able to make the backlight buttons of all the cockpit  :D
More on this later with the eyebrow parts !
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Anonymous on May 30, 2005, 09:40:23 AM
Wow, great post!  Very nice collection of parts Oliver!   :beer:


Cheers,
Jason
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 30, 2005, 11:25:13 AM
Olivier, you HAVE been busy!!!

Beautiful work :beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on May 30, 2005, 11:38:12 AM
:supz: Rock on RD

Jaap
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on May 30, 2005, 01:55:50 PM
great work RD

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Zandor on May 31, 2005, 12:49:58 AM
dude...your gonna make me want to start a new pit!

keep it up!
Z
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nutty on May 31, 2005, 11:47:53 AM
As everyone else has said, WOW - RD ... looking absolutely fantastic.

Well done bud.

James
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 04, 2005, 06:07:58 AM
Thanks guys.

I worked a little on the eyebrow lights assembly. Once again, plastic sheets are used extensively and modelist skills and toold come handy  :P

The box is made with 2mm plastic and the square sections are from metal - I first tried making these in plastic as well but it takes too long to get them perfectly square, so I reverted to these metal sections.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/157_eyebrow.jpg)
The backside of the metal part is filled with plastic and a white led is placed on the plastic

I have hesitated quite long on the method to make the light cap but I tried one of the idea this morning and it might just be the way to go.
The cap will be made of bent thin metal - the same kind of the metal used in modelism photoetched sheets. the sheets is .2mm thin, so it's really easy to bend it and cut it to shape
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/158_eyebrow.jpg)
Once the template is cut, I bent it with the etch tool I usually use on aircraft model.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/159_eyebrow.jpg)

Before gluing I tested the fit and added the stencils...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/160_eyebrow.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/161_eyebrow.jpg)
The corners will have to be adjusted with mastic and sanded but the result is almost what I wanted to get.
The graphic stencil is sandwiched between a sheet of PVC of red colour and another sheet of brown grey PVC. I will probably add some more thicker sheet to better diffuse the led light.

Here's a test with outside light - the idea was to have the red text just about invisible in a no light condition and having the red text once the white led is lighted in the metal square section.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/162_eyebrow.jpg)
And here's a test with the led:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/163_eyebrow.jpg) with the metal not glued yet

The next one might just be a little thinner at the edges with better cut angles in the 4 corners - I have to find a precise way to perform that cut :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on June 04, 2005, 07:57:13 AM
Damn, that looks great RD.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on June 04, 2005, 10:28:48 AM
Woot!!

Awsome, homebrewed parts, thanks for the pics
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on June 04, 2005, 11:12:17 AM
Ill bet that thin metal would take solder very nicely, instead of glue?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 06, 2005, 02:37:52 PM
Yep, Mike - pretty clever idea.
I spent some time on the week-end trying your idea but when I realized it wouldn't work - I started reading some "how-to" on the net and realized I needed flux for the solder to work :)
Since I didn't have flux at hand the sunday, I dediced to use CE glue anyway.
I'll probably solder the next ones - I have a lot of these to do anyway
But thanks for the idea.

Doing these is a hell of a job. It took me the best part of Sunday to make 5 of them with the casing: But it's done, now, they are connected to the UCC and lighting up just fine.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/164_eyebrow.jpg)
I had a tough choice to make here - Using the MLU light layout or the B50/52 layout. You guys know I'm building a MLU cockpit, but since I'd fly F4 mostly with a b52 and stopworks pit, I decided to adopt the b50/52 layout for the time being. Having done both the graphics, I can switch the light caps quite easily anyway should a decent MLU cockpit become available in F4.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/165_eyebrow.jpg)
Here's a quick fit (by hand  :o ) on the glareshield - the picture don't do it justice, I had to increase the ISO hence the grainy effect and it was pretty difficult to take that picture in the dark with one hand on the glareshield and the other one on the camera.

Anyway, the middle light (FLCS and DBU ON) seems not to be supported by the F4 shared memory.
And I realised there are one entry for the HYD light and another for the OIL light as far as the eyebrow are concerned. But both are on the same unique light on all eyebrow light layout I know (b30, 40, 50 and MLU) SO I wonder what's the purpose of this... ?
Boxer, are you still around?

Now, I can start working on the left eyebrow lights - only 2 over there...
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on June 06, 2005, 05:49:58 PM
Man, those are sweet!

try to buy some solder with the flux already inside, flux core.

let me know how it works, I'm interested in making some like you did.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Anonymous on June 06, 2005, 07:43:13 PM
Dam sweet Olivier!   :beer:


Cheers,
Jason
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on June 07, 2005, 08:56:55 AM
Great work Red Dog!

BTW, I believe there is a light for FLCS fault.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 07, 2005, 09:01:33 AM
Rich,

That would be great ... but I can't find it  :(  Any hints?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on June 07, 2005, 11:03:04 AM
I have it masked in Light Bits Array 3.  Here's that piece of VB code;

Code: [Select]
  ' Light Array 3 Masks
  Const MaskFlcsPmg = &H1&                                    ' Flight Control System
  Const MaskMainGen = &H2&                                    ' Main Generator
  Const MaskStbyGen = &H4&                                    ' Stdby Generator
  Const MaskEPUGen = &H8&                                     ' EPU Generator
  Const MaskEPUPmg = &H10&                                    ' EPU Power
  Const MaskToFlcs = &H20&                                    ' To Flight Control System
  Const MaskFlcsRly = &H40&                                   ' Flight Control System Relay
  Const MaskBatFail = &H80&                                   ' Battery Failure
  Const MaskHydrazine = &H100&                                ' Hydrazine Fault
  Const MaskAir = &H200&                                      ' Airflow Fault
  Const MaskElec_Fault = &H400&                               ' Electronics Fault
  Const MaskLEF_Fault = &H800&                                ' Leading Edge Flap Damage
  Const MaskPower_Off = &H1000&                               ' Set if there is no electrical power
  Const MaskEng2_Fire = &H2000&                               ' Multi-engine
  Const MaskLockLight = &H4000&                               ' Lock Light Cue
  Const MaskShoot = &H8000&                                   ' Shoot light cue
  Const MaskNoseGearDown = &H10000                            ' Nose Gear - MD -- 20040301: on means down and locked
  Const MaskLeftGearDown = &H20000                            ' Left Gear - MD -- 20040301: on means down and locked
  Const MaskRightGearDown = &H40000                           ' Right Gear - MD -- 20040301: on means down and locked
  Const MaskAllLightBits3On = &H7EFFF

I'm not using it myself yet but it looks like it's there.  Also there is a Flight Control System Relay bit whose function I'm not sure of.  I hope this helps.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 07, 2005, 11:20:19 AM
Thanks Rich,

I may be wrong but I think the FLCS fault you refer to is meant to be the FLT CON SYS on the warning light panel and not the flcs eyebrow light.

Now thinking about it, it may actually be the same light being repeated twice... ??

Anyone know?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 10, 2005, 02:44:34 PM
Slow progress during the last 3 weeks, but a giant step forward this week-end.

I decided to start the homemade TWP assembly. The challenge relies on having the microswitch and the led all in a button no larger than 15mm :)
I was once again greatly helped by a friend for the assembly.
The faces of the indicators are built the sasme way as the eyebrow lights I did previously. A led goes inside the casing of the indicator which goes inside the TWP mainframe. At the end of that mainframe,  I glued a sheet of plastic of 2mm. In that sheet I placed some microswitches and some springs so by pushing the indicator, the springs makes contact with the microswitch and send the macro through the Xkey.
There's just enough room next to the microswitch for the led wires to go through the 2mm plastic.
A picture is better than a thousand words as they say ... and they are right :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/170_TWP.jpg)
The indicators are uncapped

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/171_TWP.jpg)
Front view unlighted. I still need to work a little more on the white of the indicator labelling, the result is already great but no great enough from closer. I had to place the grey pvc sheet behind the green and not before as i do usually so the white remained white, but i'm not 100% convinced of the result, I'll try other stuff next week.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/172_TWP.jpg)
Same but lighted. It's a dry fit of the roughly painted TWP, when i have some more time, i'll glue all the relevant parts and finish it correctly.

I was also finally able to place the cabin pressure gauge I got from ebay on my right aux. Seems easy, yeah! The damn thing wouldn( go through the aux hole, So I had to enlarge it so it fits. No big deal but since the aux was finished and painted already, it had to be a careful job.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/173_cabinpress.jpg)
pretty happy to have it 100% complete now.

And here's the giant step forward. The cockpit base!
I had a lot of challenges here. And I spent the last few months trying different ways and judging the max room I have available in the bedroom without having my wife trowing all the stuff through the windows (and me strapped to the seat mind you)
So I had to compromise about the angle of the slope to place the seat. But that is now over, the cockpit base is done;

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/174_socle.jpg)
Nothing fancy about it, but it's really the mainpart to start assembling all the subassemblies and i look forward to that.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/175_socle.jpg)

Now, Where are my plans for that center console feet :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: liongreek on July 10, 2005, 02:53:13 PM
Awsome work man, have the same problem with space, and wife, and was wondering about the base....any chance on passing on the general dims?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on July 11, 2005, 02:36:58 AM
Quote from: "liongreek"
Awsome work man, have the same problem with space, and wife, and was wondering about the base....any chance on passing on the general dims?


I think this should help:
http://www.checksix-forums.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=49965&st=60

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 11, 2005, 03:53:08 AM
Charos,

Actually, i know Goupil quite well, we talk a lot :) but his solution can't help mine since he's doing a full cockpit and I'm only doing the vier2 stle pit. Thanks for the link though.

Liongreek,
I can give you dims, no problem - but you have to realize that the dimensions are not at all accurate! They result from my own compromised based on room available which in my case is pretty small :)
This seem unimportant when starting a cockpit project but you will soon realize that a set distance at the very beginning of the project will influence greatly the placement of a part at the very end of the project and that may pose a lot of unsolvable problems...
Read, it's a snowball effect.

here are the general dims:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/177_dims.jpg)
All are in mm and I used 18mm and 12mm MDF.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: liongreek on July 11, 2005, 08:05:24 AM
RD,
thanks for the dims, I would say that we have almost the same space to spare, give or take a few mm...I read you loud and clear on the dims problem, I was ready to start posting my progress on the base when I realised that I had to share my side of the bed with my pit...I find your seat angle approach very interesting though...again, great work!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on July 11, 2005, 02:07:44 PM
Nice work on the base and TWA.

Are the buttons on the TWA push to cancel, or are they just annunciator lights in the real cockpit?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 12, 2005, 03:06:28 AM
Mike,

It's the TWP  :lol:  and they are pushbuttons - you push them to get the RWR on the mode you want. The only one in the TWP not being a pushbutton is the missile launch light.
There's another one which though it is a pushbutton, we don't really need it. It's the SYS TEST button. Only the light is needed there, no pushbutton because it's apparently not implemented in F4 anyway. I placed mine though in case someday the code change.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Anonymous on July 12, 2005, 11:30:25 PM
Olivier,

Great work as usual, those buttons look great!   :beer: For stiffness on the button face, are you using thick clear plastic behind the graphic so you don't push in the middle?  Just curious how the guts look.


Cheers,
Jason
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on July 13, 2005, 12:03:27 PM
Jep, TWP

Thanks for clarifying the buttons, I know in F4 you click them with the mouse, but I didn't know if this was realistic or not.




Quote from: "Red Dog"
Mike,

It's the TWP  :lol:  and they are pushbuttons - you push them to get the RWR on the mode you want. The only one in the TWP not being a pushbutton is the missile launch light.
There's another one which though it is a pushbutton, we don't really need it. It's the SYS TEST button. Only the light is needed there, no pushbutton because it's apparently not implemented in F4 anyway. I placed mine though in case someday the code change.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 14, 2005, 06:51:08 AM
Jason,
With my stencils I use three other sheet of plastic and/or PVC. One is red coloured (or green coloured) another one is grey brown and the last one is transparent that I paint sometimes when needed. These three layers plus my stencil layer seem enough to harden the button faceplate. Beside, the plastic button behind the layers just prevent then from being pressed inside the button casing.

Mike,
oh no,  cliking anything with the mouse is highly unrealistic and should be avoided  :D  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 17, 2005, 07:42:14 AM
Well, the eyebrow project is done! I got all my glareshield lights ready...
I completed the left part yesterday and the hardest of all was to modify a real master caution assembly for my project.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/178_eyebrows.jpg)
the eyebrow lights are done according to the MLU F-16. On the left part I only wired the TF Fail which is implemented in F4 and the ECM light that I will probably use as an indicator of the jammer emission. Normally, it's on the MISC panel - but not on the MLU...

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/179_eyebrows.jpg)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/180_eyebrows.jpg)
Some close-ups in the dark with the indicator lighted.

The master caution is probably not from a F-16 (comes from Italy) and that stuff was really a pain to dismantle and adapt the leds and microswitch. I had to cut though it and invent a complete new system with plastic, pen springs and screws.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/182_mastercaution.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/181_mastercaution.jpg)

The graphic faces comes from my stencil as well, the original was damaged beyond repair... Two white leds are inside and when the pushbutton is pressed it activates the microswitch that will be wired to the Xkey.
That should give me a perfect master caution assembly for my pit.

As for the korry indicator reproduction, all I have left to do is the 4 for the TWA and the one for the MISC.  :shock:  geez, that's 18 in total!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on July 17, 2005, 08:32:11 AM
WOW!!

Again, awsome work, your gonna have a christmas tree lit up very soon!!
Maybe the boss will let you move it to the front room around Christmas and thow a little tinsel on it :D

I'll be referencing your thread a lot in the comming months, keep up the great pics and posts Olivier.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 17, 2005, 10:16:10 AM
Well, it's christmas already in the bedroom  :lol:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/183_sub.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on July 17, 2005, 02:32:01 PM
WOW Oliver,

that's incredible great work !!
when are you going to assemble the complete pit?
It must come out great!!

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: liongreek on July 17, 2005, 04:27:28 PM
Excellent work Olivier...now, I've been looking at my posts all over the forum and all i do is to congratulate all of you people for your work...I don't know a thing about electronics, moldering, soldering and stuff, and yet I want to build my own pit....damn, it's frustrating!!!!!!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: smangs on July 17, 2005, 05:20:09 PM
What an awesome electronics testbed.  I just got started with the CP today, it will probably take me another year before I will even get started with the electronics side of the pit.

Sascha
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on July 18, 2005, 12:27:23 AM
Hey liongreek

i didn't know these things either when i started the pit.

now i do soldering and etching of boards for the PHCC, i do a bit of electronics, i know a bit about cutting plexy, wood, metal, and when i get the time ( hopfullysoon) i will start using the lath to make some of the parts for the stick base.

its a steep learning curve, but all you need to do is try, hey i didn't know most of the above 2 years ago. worst case you loose some materials or some skin ( only a bit if your carfull).

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on July 20, 2005, 09:38:04 PM
Nice!!!

 I'm enviouse!!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: HOLLYWOOD on August 29, 2005, 10:25:18 PM
thats looks too cool.....im curious as to how you made the stencils for the buttons and what not..... did you print the graphic on white paper, or transparency paper?? they look soo good and i was planin on making my annucators the same way you made yours! can anyone or red dog explain?<------IM A FRIGGIN IDIOT I JUST READ WHAT HE POSTED A WHILE BACK ABOUT THEM BEING LASER PRINTED ONTO A TRANSPARENT SHEET!

p.s. red dog check your PM lol, i need some new pots for my cougar :D

                                                               -thanks again
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 01, 2005, 09:09:06 AM
Yep, Hollywood, they were printed on transparent sheets with a laser printer. I don't mind giving away the graphic files for you guys to use. I might put it in the download section later this week...

with these damn holidays, I couldn't work as much as I wanted on the pit but I managed to work a little on the LEFT AUX console. I have to confess the gear panel received from Mike was a nice argument to work on that part of the pit :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/184_leftaux.jpg)

It's still not attached to the aux panel because I miss the DZUS, but you get the idea.
The switches are coming from various sources such as AGT, real ones and some non F16 aircraft switches (landing light). The gear indicators are homemade. some resin caps where used on regular switches as well.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/185_leftaux.jpg)
I'm pretty happy to have such a nice gear panel thanks to kabar  :D  it's 100 times better than the AGT I had before...
But backlight will be for later.

Now here's something pretty usual...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/188_TQS.jpg)
That's a simple throttle arm assembly would you say... Sure. Only problem is that I got the throttle handle and arm from different sources and I missed all the small connecting stuff and cutoff release lever and springs. Once again, the viperpit community came to the rescue by sourcing some difficult parts to make for me (read springs and lever) and I was able to machine the rest of the parts myself to complete the mecanism.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/187_TQS.jpg)
The 2 small rods are actually nails cut to size and I drilled the hole in it for the retaining pin.
ever tried to bore a tiny hole in a tiny nail ?  :lol:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/186_TQS.jpg)
The biggest work was to machine the small part on the end of the cutoff lever that prevent the handle to be lifted without depressing the lever. It's not very close to the real one but does its job.

The hardest work was to put these springs back in their place ...  :D and I must say we don't need that level of forces in our pit... But Michi, I slept with that baby for the past two nights, playing with the lever to wait for sleep to come ... :oops:   :wink:

Nexy step is to have the Cougar handle replace that real handle or the other way around, I don't know yet...
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on September 01, 2005, 10:13:09 AM
Nice job RD :D  Quality as usual :wink:
Greets,
Jaap
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on September 01, 2005, 10:28:47 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
But Michi, I slept with that baby for the past two nights, playing with the lever to wait for sleep to come ... :oops:   :wink:

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh ;)
that was exactly, what I was thinking *g*

Perfect work, RedDog!
The GearPanel assembly looks fantastic - did you get the hook switchcap from Philippe Marchal or did you do it by yourself?

greetings
michi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 01, 2005, 12:41:47 PM
Most Excellent work!!!

Can't wait to see everything mounted in place.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 11, 2005, 12:44:21 PM
For once, I'll let the picture do the talking :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/190_cockpit.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/189_cockpit.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on September 11, 2005, 02:18:14 PM
RD,

That is looking awesome!!  Nice use of real and fabricated parts!  They blend together well!  :shock:

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 11, 2005, 02:42:42 PM
:beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on September 11, 2005, 03:19:50 PM
Great work Red Dog.  It looks beautiful :beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on September 11, 2005, 03:38:48 PM
x4, but you have to make a cutout fot the upcoming working HUD  :twisted:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: strike on September 11, 2005, 08:14:11 PM
Oh man that looks so Sweet !
Title: Pit
Post by: Rayman on September 12, 2005, 04:55:05 AM
Looking great Olivier,

So in two weeks you will have it finished?? :D  :D
What will it be, al MLU black or will you change to grey?

Cheers,

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 12, 2005, 05:05:57 AM
Thanks gents  :lol:

Charos,
I have no plans for a working HUD at this time :)

Rayman,
Two weeks will do... If I can work on it 7 days a week - 15hours a day...
But that's not going to happen  :cry:
It will be an "all black" MLU save for the cockpit floor and stick base and armrest...
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Hack on September 13, 2005, 08:50:38 AM
Wow Red Dog, that looks awesome.



Justin
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 14, 2005, 12:46:34 PM
Thanks Hack,

I was finally able to interface my MFDs to a X-Key matrix and light them up with 5v.
I just have a rocker with the led US.  :cry:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/194_mfd.jpg)

Sorry for the pix quality, these damn light captor makes the MFD go dark when I spotlight them :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 14, 2005, 12:52:40 PM
Thats strange,,how the heck did you end up with one odd-ball LED in that rocker?

Never the less, you can't beat real MFDs, Jim gave me a great deal on a set. Can't wait to mount them.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: SharkNoir on September 14, 2005, 02:34:25 PM
you have chance kabar, perhaps i will find a set too !
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 14, 2005, 02:40:24 PM
Shark, give Feathers a PM
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 25, 2005, 03:11:20 PM
the right side console and right aux integration gave me some headaches. Since I can't model the real ones because of lack of room, I needed to think about what I really wanted as a first step before building the full cockpit with ribs and external skin.

So the decision came after long hours of mind masturbation  :oops: - I will use the same angle of the console but they wont be the real width - especially at the back part of the side panel. They won't be as long and I will stop between the KY58 and avionic power panel - although i will probably skip the unusable KY58 and place the avionic panel at its place.

The problem is that I really wanted to have the map and data stowage box implemented and I can't really with the configuration I chosed. So I decided to bring it a little forward. It will block the O2 hose but I don't care, i don't need it.

Another problem will be the elbow armrest because for that I need part of the side wall which I won't do... :lol:  Nothing really impossible here, I will just make a section of the wall to support the real armrest I have.

At first I won't place panels into the right console- just the Cougar in its base until I have a solution to install it into the real stick base. At that time, I will probably install some panels in the console. Since the room will be available because of the deletion of the cougar base.

Enough talk, here are the current status of the right side console.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/195_consoledroite.jpg)(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/196_consoledroite.jpg)
I placed access holes everywhere :) I'll cover them with thin wood and magnets probably. At least for the ones visible from the outside.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/197_consoledroite.jpg)(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/198_consoledroite.jpg)
The electronic will go on the small shelf just under the right aux. One Light PCB covering 35 leds (mainly for the warning light panel) will be placed there plus probably some Xkeys interface for the switches. I can't wait to be at that step :) But before I need to finish this one and then do the left one...
The full assembly will be attached with a hinge connected to the main cockpit stand. That will allow easy entry into the pit (although I will get it from the left side but who knows what the next pit room configuration will be ?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 25, 2005, 03:55:29 PM
Looking really nice,, how about putting it together with your ACES for a pic:    :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on September 25, 2005, 04:24:13 PM
Great work RD!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on September 25, 2005, 04:48:11 PM
RD,

Great work!  I think your sense of compromises are great!  I will at one point put an arm rest to complete my pit.  However, I don't use it, and nor do I think it really makes a difference.  I can honestly say my arm never gets tired or anything.  So I'm not even sure why that is there?  Maybe just cause they can?  :lol:   Anyway, the point I am trying to say is you don't need an armrest.  Unless of course you want one for looks.

Great work
Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 25, 2005, 04:55:06 PM
Thanks guys,

Mike, that's not going to happen soon, too dangerous for my wife ... well for me and my wife I mean  :wink:

lol Jody. I don't have your arm :o you should see me and I'm all skinny with a arm you could make two turn around with only one of your big canuck hand ...

but it's true; I want it mainly because it's a nice part :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on September 26, 2005, 02:34:49 AM
I think the reason the arm rest is there is that in the real bird, you're pulling real G's and as such, you're arm probably get's a bit tired after a while.  Not so much in our case.

Jay
Title: Constructing
Post by: Rayman on September 26, 2005, 04:46:12 AM
Hi RD,

Wow its looking really great already!!!
What angle do you use for the right side; 10 degrees?

I also made the panels not as wide (just so i could put the fuel pumps panel in), and long.
My left panel stops between the fuel pumps and the trim panel, the right side between the airco and KY58, so it is easier to get into the pit, because when you have no sides its pretty difficult!
But i like your idea of leaving the KY58 out, and put the  avionics power there, i still want to make the right side again, so maybe that will be an option.

Take care,

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 26, 2005, 05:19:30 AM
Thanks Raymond,

Yep I used 10? angle for the console angle. There is also a 5? angle between the front part of the side console (touching the AUX) and the end of the console. The angle point is on the Third ribs from the front.

Speaking of angles, anyone know if the left console is 10?/5? as well?

Seems we are doing the same stuff. And we end of side consoles art the same point :) Yeah, there's really no way to place the KY58 while the avionic power would be nice to have. Not realistic but pretty much better IMHO :)

So you have the left and neeed to build the right. I have the right and need to build the left. looks like between the two of us, we have a complete pit  :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on September 26, 2005, 06:36:14 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Thanks Raymond,

Speaking of angles, anyone know if the left console is 10?/5? as well?


Yes, but the break point for the 5? angle is placed at a different location along the left console.

Marv
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on September 26, 2005, 06:44:00 AM
Quote from: "Marv"
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Thanks Raymond,

Speaking of angles, anyone know if the left console is 10?/5? as well?


Yes, but the break point for the 5? angle is placed at a different location along the left console.

Marv


which is ????

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on September 26, 2005, 11:48:10 AM
That is, the distance along the inside edge where the 5? occurs is different between the left and right consoles.

Measuring from the point along the console's inside edge (closest to the ACES II seat) where the left and right auxiliary consoles meet the left and right side consoles to the point where the left and right side consoles change angle from +5? to 0? is:

12.5" for the right console and
15.25" for the left console.

Both left and right consoles are angled 10? inward, but there is a subtle bend in the console at the two pints I mentioned.  

I hope I make sense.  If not, I will clarify more.

Marv


Quote from: "idekkers"
Quote from: "Marv"
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Thanks Raymond,

Speaking of angles, anyone know if the left console is 10?/5? as well?


Yes, but the break point for the 5? angle is placed at a different location along the left console.

Marv


which is ????

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on September 26, 2005, 12:05:29 PM
all i needed was the 15.25  :wink:

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: FalconDK on September 26, 2005, 01:35:03 PM
Quote from: "idekkers"
all i needed was the 15.25  :wink:

Ido


Anybody needing pit dims - don't forget to check out Feathers thread: http://www.viperpit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=170&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

Claus
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 26, 2005, 02:07:50 PM
Thanks Marv, the confirmation helps the planning of the left console.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on September 26, 2005, 02:42:33 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"


lol Jody. I don't have your arm :o you should see me and I'm all skinny with a arm you could make two turn around with only one of your big canuck hand ...

but it's true; I want it mainly because it's a nice part :)


RD,

Ha ha ha..  Good point..  I think Jay is right, might be different under G..  However at our G level, the arm rest is pretty much useless..  But I think the main issue, is we want it to look authentic.   :wink:

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 26, 2005, 03:52:54 PM
I remember Dave Scott commenting on fatigue in the arm after an hour of flying his SSC, so it might depend on what you are flying with,, he did appreciate mounting his armrest into his mock testbed.

I'll let you know this fall when I interface my DS built SSC.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on September 26, 2005, 04:22:27 PM
Actually, last year's I/ITSEC show the feedback I got from several actual pilots was that the arm rest was important for simulators.

The comment was made while testing my SSC at the show.

Quote from: "Marvin"
Quote from: "Red Dog"


lol Jody. I don't have your arm :o you should see me and I'm all skinny with a arm you could make two turn around with only one of your big canuck hand ...

but it's true; I want it mainly because it's a nice part :)


RD,

Ha ha ha..  Good point..  I think Jay is right, might be different under G..  However at our G level, the arm rest is pretty much useless..  But I think the main issue, is we want it to look authentic.   :wink:

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on September 26, 2005, 09:43:14 PM
Mike/Marv,

Ok, not only do I stand corrected!!!  But I guess it helps my big macho ego as well!!  8)   I guess hitting the gym for the last 3 years might be the reason why it does not bother me..  :twisted:

After all this debating, I still want one!!  :lol:

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 26, 2005, 09:58:27 PM
Wait till you hit 40 Jody, you'll use any arm rest you can find  :D
Is there enough room in the footwell for an ottaman?  8)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on September 26, 2005, 10:01:51 PM
Quote from: "Kabar03"
Wait till you hit 40 Jody, you'll use any arm rest you can find  :D
Is there enough room in the footwell for an ottaman?  8)


Mike!!!!

 :lol:  :lol:  :lol:   Oh dude!  You kill me!!  Fair enough..  you win, time for me to SHUT UP!  :lol:

Jody
Title: Left console
Post by: Rayman on September 27, 2005, 02:40:37 AM
HI RD,

I made the bend from 5 degrees in the leftside panel between the ELEC and the FUEL pumps panel.
And after the Fuel pumps it stops.

How did you get the curve in the first rib of the rightside, your own design, or real?

Cheers,

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 27, 2005, 03:01:04 AM
Ray,

The problem of the first rib comes from the fact that I don't use real ribs and no sidewall and no outer structure.
In my setup, there would be a gap between the end of the aux console and the flat right console, in the real pit, that where the sidewall meets the aux console and hides the gap between the aux and the rest of the structure.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/199_consoledroite.jpg)
The red lines indicate where the panels will be and you can see marked by the arrow the gap I'm talking about.

So I will make that small flat plane go through the first rib and the wall section below will be made in wood so I can completely open it if necessary and the upper section linking the outer side of the aux to the outer side of the first rib will probably made out of aluminium.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/200_consoledroite.jpg)

So The curve on the first rib it the same as the curve on the aux panel, at least projected - it's no real curve at all.
Title: Right side
Post by: Rayman on September 27, 2005, 04:51:29 AM
OK roger that,

it's going to be great!

Looking forward to your next step.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on September 27, 2005, 06:23:01 AM
(http://www.pbase.com/marvd/image/49900459.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on September 27, 2005, 06:49:42 AM
now that's just teasing Marv  :wink:

which block is the aux ? doesn't look like a 50

Ido
Title: R panel
Post by: Rayman on September 27, 2005, 07:11:42 AM
Wow Marv,

Thats looking great!!

Where did you get that?? Is there a viper flying somewhere without its right panel?? here it is!! :D
Title: Re: R panel
Post by: Nikolas_A on September 27, 2005, 10:50:20 AM
Quote from: "Rayman"

Where did you get that?? Is there a viper flying somewhere without its right panel?? here it is!! :D


I guess he goes to airshows with a screwdriver in his pocket... :lol:

Nikolas
Title: Re: R panel
Post by: Marv on September 27, 2005, 11:18:09 AM
Or a Leatherman in a pinch!

Quote from: "Charos"
Quote from: "Rayman"

Where did you get that?? Is there a viper flying somewhere without its right panel?? here it is!! :D


I guess he goes to airshows with a screwdriver in his pocket... :lol:

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on September 27, 2005, 11:20:18 AM
I got that and the left side console a few years ago.  Yes, it is not a Block 50.

If anyone knows where I can get a left Aux Console (the one that holds the landing gear panel), I would be interested!

Marv


Quote from: "idekkers"
now that's just teasing Marv  :wink:

which block is the aux ? doesn't look like a 50

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on September 27, 2005, 11:22:27 AM
I actually thought Red Dog might need to see how the two consoles interface.  I have the plastic interior panel, too.  That hides the ribs under the right Aux panel and blends the side and Aux consoles together.

Quote from: "idekkers"
now that's just teasing Marv  :wink:

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on September 27, 2005, 12:15:48 PM
Hey marv

if you get a chance, can you post pics of where the main and aux connect to each other ? it doesn't look like a strait line.

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on September 27, 2005, 04:21:21 PM
The picture I posted was a top view.  What did you want to see, the side view (from inside looking out)?

Marv


Quote from: "idekkers"
Hey marv

if you get a chance, can you post pics of where the main and aux connect to each other ? it doesn't look like a strait line.

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 27, 2005, 04:36:05 PM
Hi Marv, It's a teaser allright, but it helps :)
As the trainer pix in the other thread, those are the ones I took my dimensions from.

If you could give the following dims, that would be great, but no rush, just whenever and if you have the time.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/201_consoledroite.jpg)

It would also be helpfull to get a picture from the inside (as if you'd go against the wall without moving the part) That would help in seeing how the DZus rail are attached and how the side console is attached to the AUX
I see the bolt on the right there, but I wonder how it goes around the side stick hole?

Thanks for your help
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on September 27, 2005, 07:08:47 PM
Sure thing.  It may take a few days since I have some things going on, but I would be happy to help.

Marv

Quote from: "Red Dog"
Hi Marv, It's a teaser allright, but it helps :)
As the trainer pix in the other thread, those are the ones I took my dimensions from.

If you could give the following dims, that would be great, but no rush, just whenever and if you have the time.

It would also be helpfull to get a picture from the inside (as if you'd go against the wall without moving the part) That would help in seeing how the DZus rail are attached and how the side console is attached to the AUX
I see the bolt on the right there, but I wonder how it goes around the side stick hole?

Thanks for your help
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on September 28, 2005, 12:38:02 AM
what i meant was the seam between the main and aux, it doesn't look like they are conncted in a strait line where the angle is.....

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 28, 2005, 02:55:47 AM
Sorry for the deletion of all my thread pictures  :x The website I used to store them was hacked last night... :cry:

[edit] But part of it is fixed already...

Marv, take all the time you need and thanks
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 28, 2005, 03:05:01 AM
Ido,

I don't know if that is the info you're looking at  but here's a picture of the right aux panel:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/128_auxright_mod1.jpg)

As you can see, it's not a straight line at all. The aux is connected to the side console on the stick base (probably with the 2 small tabs) and on the bolt at the right edge of the aux.

The middle is the panel hole.
I'm not sure it was the info you were after, I hope it helps
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on September 28, 2005, 08:43:04 AM
Damn, you guys got me started again. Here's some work on the right panel:

Edit: photo removed, see below

Red Dog or Marv, one question:
I guess the Dzus rail the Sensor power goes on is one piece, right? If so is it bolted onto the aux panel too? I see two holes on the right side in RD's photo so I guess that is the case.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on September 28, 2005, 08:46:57 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"

If you could give the following dims, that would be great, but no rush, just whenever and if you have the time.


RD, most of these dims can be calculated by counting holes on the Dzus rail and multiplying by 9.53mm. I'll measure them for you when I get to this point.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on September 28, 2005, 10:04:06 AM
Some further progress:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/pic2web/Cockpit/Right_console.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 28, 2005, 11:32:33 AM
Quote
I guess the Dzus rail the Sensor power goes on is one piece, right? If so is it bolted onto the aux panel too? I see two holes on the right side in RD's photo so I guess that is the case.

I guess so as well, but I'm not sure. the picture Marv will take will probably help. There are also 4 of those small holes along the inside of the side stick part of AUx - probably to attach the Dzus rail as well

Nice drawings you have there and roger on counting the Dzus :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on September 28, 2005, 11:40:11 AM
yup, that's exactly what i wanted.

thanks RD

Ido
Title: 911
Post by: oryx1 on September 28, 2005, 11:44:35 AM
RD

Which I had u as my PIT teacher...EXCELENT EXCELENT..we are jealous in Namibia..
can you 911 here please..not getting stncils of the web..and diagrams...

can one build the frames from 2.5-3mm steel plate..

Not getting any luck and joy and PM seems to not to be working

Oryx1
Mike..Namibia
mikea@nampa.org

wanna visit Nam and help with our Pit..he he he ..???
 :oops: .... :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 28, 2005, 12:46:46 PM
Oryx1,

Well, what can we say?
All the info is available on the board. all you have to do is read it and search for the relevant info.

Nobody will build your pit in Namibia at your place, you'll have to start working on your own. I don't understand what you need but you will need to decide first what you want to build and then ask specific questions instead of requesting stencils :)
Killn will have stencils for sale but he's not ready yet - so you'll have to be patient
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on October 08, 2005, 08:47:28 AM
Here you go:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v519/pic2web/Cockpit/Rc2.jpg)
Edit: I compressed it too much :oops: . The numbers are:
146.5, 305, 209.2, 228.2 (mm of course). Measured from panel edge to panel edge.
I'm missing three of the dims you asked for. The smaler one is ~80mm, because the Zeroize panel is 75,60mm.

You can easily calculate this with these quidelines:
Dzus to Dzus:136.3mm
Maximum panel length: 146,82mm (if the panels where touching. Normaly ~146,5)
Width: multiples of 9,53mm (as above normaly ~.3-.4mm smaller). The studs on most panels are 1,5 hole from the edge (1.5*9.53 - .15 to .2mm)

I've made an ipart factory in Inventor (kind of like a parametric template). I input # of Dzus holes and it spits out panels  8)  
The same with Dzus T and L rails.

I have a request too: can you give me the cutout dimensions for the round instruments? Hole diameter and distance between screw holes?

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 08, 2005, 04:42:48 PM
Thanks Charos,

I'll give you the dims you requested as soon as I'm home next week.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 16, 2005, 03:25:29 PM
Quote
I have a request too: can you give me the cutout dimensions for the round instruments? Hole diameter and distance between screw holes?

Nikolas, are you after the real ones or the one I cut form my own instrument? Mine are not exactly perfectly dimensioned I have 1 or 2mm tolerances at times - mainly for tooling compatibility.

I spend some time finishing the left side console:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/202_consolegauche.jpg)

Nothing special here, the hard work is coming with the placement of the throttle arm, and throttle gate
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on October 16, 2005, 04:19:10 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Nikolas, are you after the real ones or the one I cut form my own instrument? Mine are not exactly perfectly dimensioned I have 1 or 2mm tolerances at times - mainly for tooling compatibility.


I'm looking for the real ones. Actualy I found something here. (http://www.viperpit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15105#15105) I don't know if they are from the real deal.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 16, 2005, 04:44:09 PM
Hi nikolas,

I looked in my parts and found the instrument clamps, maybe that could help.

I see 4 classes of instrument: dims rounded
- 25mm: Hyd1&2 and oil
- 40mm: Noz position
- 50mm: RPM, FTIT, EPU and O2
- 60mm: FF

Now with the instrument clamps and the screw I have there:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/150_instruments.jpg)
 I can measure the distance between the mounting screws for you:
- 25mm: 35mm between screws
- 40mm: 48mm between screws
- 50mm: 60mm between screws
- 60mm: 67mm between screws
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on October 16, 2005, 05:06:22 PM
Go to:

http://www.mspclamps.com/

They list case sizes and the clamp sizes and hole locations.  Note, the hole locations depend on the clamp you select.  Even though the clamp fits a specific gauge body, the hole pattern can vary depending on the model of clamp you order.

Marv
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on October 17, 2005, 01:41:22 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Now with the instrument clamps and the screw I have there:
 I can measure the distance between the mounting screws for you:
- 25mm: 35mm between screws
- 40mm: 48mm between screws
- 50mm: 60mm between screws
- 60mm: 67mm between screws

Thanks Olivier. Are your clamps real or did you make these too?
Quote from: "Marv"
Go to:

http://www.mspclamps.com/

They list case sizes and the clamp sizes and hole locations.  Note, the hole locations depend on the clamp you select.  Even though the clamp fits a specific gauge body, the hole pattern can vary depending on the model of clamp you order.

Marv

Thanks Marv but, can't we find which ones are used on the F-16? I'll try to compare Olivier's list and see which fit closer.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 17, 2005, 03:10:38 AM
Nikolas,
The clamps are real ones
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on October 17, 2005, 05:08:53 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Nikolas,
The clamps are real ones


Oh, great! :supz:

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 20, 2005, 07:06:21 AM
I started planning the final stages of the cockpit: panel placement.
As you'd have guessed at this time, My cockpit won't be 100% realistic both in dimensions and capabilities. Besides I'm doing a MLU style cockpit but to keep compatibility with my version of F4, I'll use some B50/52 panels.

So all in all I will be very far from a 100% accurate cockpit, but IMHO very close to a 100% enjoyable cockpit in Falcon.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/205_Panels.jpg)

As you may notice, some panels are not installed and some panels are not in their correct place. Best example is the KY58 panel on the right console that will be replaced with the avionic power panel. But there are other occurences...

Now might be a good time to discuss switch use and sim specific commands.

1. Switches
i'm planning on redirecting some cockpit switches to sim (or system) specific functions, like Light rotaries that will indeed be linked to the cockpit lights.
I will also link the MAIN ELEC switch to the UCC power OFF switch so I'm sure nothing comes out from the UCC (light, LCD backlight) when the MAIN ELEC switch is in the OFF position.

If you have any comments or want to share your ideas, I'm all hears... :)

2. Sim Specific panels
I'm considering using 2 Sim Specific panels and include them into the cockpit.
The first one would be on the LEFT console and will present two pushbuttons and a track ball flush with the panels. I'll probably place that one instead of the AUDIO1&2 panels - below the throttle. I'm pretty used to have a trackball near the TQS since I flew with one for the last 10 years or so.

The second panel would go on the RIGHT console and feature the programming switches for the Xkeys 1&2 as well as relevant leds. These switches will be guarded of course.
Then I was also thinking of placing there a sound pot for setting the external sound volume and maybe two jack to easily connect a microphone and earphones.

Any thing else I'm obviously forgetting?

Comments welcome :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on October 20, 2005, 10:51:00 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
1. Switches
i'm planning on redirecting some cockpit switches to sim (or system) specific functions, like Light rotaries that will indeed be linked to the cockpit lights.
I will also link the MAIN ELEC switch to the UCC power OFF switch so I'm sure nothing comes out from the UCC (light, LCD backlight) when the MAIN ELEC switch is in the OFF position.

If you have any comments or want to share your ideas, I'm all hears... :)

You might want to implement some logic in this. I can remember now if F4 has a flag for this. If you just use the switch, if you loose your electric power in F4, your UCC power will still be on, because the switch will be on.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on October 20, 2005, 01:13:31 PM
This is where a piece of Hardware like EPIC or PHCC comes into play.  You can hard code in logic like this to have X happens when Y state is met.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on October 20, 2005, 01:51:09 PM
wouldn't the UCC, since its representing whats in SM, go blank also? (in damge)
DED. RWR,,but then also, your fault and display idicators would remain,
I think F4 would handle it right.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: SharkNoir on October 20, 2005, 05:04:00 PM
Kabar, actually we work on it !

I use a flag to switch off lights when Elec is OFF, for LCD DED or PFD, you can use a switch with 2 command line to cut +5v line 19 of lcd to switch off !
Only the RWR have a pb ! it can't switch off directly with power !

WIth your help, we can find some goods solutions ! please PM me your home address, i send you the next week your UCC !
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 20, 2005, 05:09:21 PM
Charos,
Yes flags for that are available - but it doesn't work fine in all F4 versions.

Jay
Argh - logic programming is already killing me with the Cougar :)

Mike,
Yep theoricaly it should work ok  but testing proved that the shared memory still suffer from a lot of problems, when you suffer damage in flight for instance : the F4 pit goes dark but most of the light indicator remains ON with the UCC because the Shared memory has not been changed due to the damage - but that is another problem we are trying to solve by finding a relevant flag in the Shared memory to bypass the problem

But for my pit, i plan on placing dual switches with one part connected to the Xkeys to send the instruction to F4 and the other part to link it to different PCB of the UCC to switch off some of the component when necessary
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Venom on October 20, 2005, 08:42:14 PM
I used a double pole triple throw switch for my main electrical panel.

That way I can switch both 115 volt, for RS gear, and send signals to x-keys with the same switch.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on October 21, 2005, 12:57:10 AM
Hey RD

are you talking about AF or FF ?

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 21, 2005, 03:10:03 AM
Venom - exactly what I have in mind as well

Ido,
I remember having problems with AF for that matter, but I confess I haven't tried since 1.03 was released.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on October 21, 2005, 11:05:22 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"

I remember having problems with AF for that matter, but I confess I haven't tried since 1.03 was released.


RD,

That should not be a confession!  AF is quite the let down IMO.  :roll:

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 10, 2005, 09:41:57 AM
Time for a short update  :shock:

This is what kept me busy for the last 2 or 3 week-ends :

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/210_frontpanel.jpg)

The front panel has been assembled from different subassemblies and painted in MLU black colour.
I have MDF wood, metal and fiberglass making the front panel as it is now.
I can't show the front glareshield because they are undergoing extensive modifications to better reflect the MLU shapes.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/212_frontpanel.jpg)
I already placed the light under the small glareshield and the light right of the ICP column - The MFds are already functionnals. The machmeter is a old one from a F104 but the numbers turned yellow and I need to find a trick to make them white again ? I'm expecting a real HSI anyday now and I'm still looking for a cheap ADI and Altimeter  :roll: I'm not ready to spend thousands of euros on theses so If I can't find them, i'll use homemade dummies

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/213_frontpanel.jpg)
The ICP column is is made in Fiberglass - I'm damn glad I don't have to do that one in wood.
The Front panel is made in 18mm MFD wood and unlike the real one, left and right part are a unique piece of wood for obvious solidity issues.
The ICP column doesn't go though it as the real cockpit, but is cut where it meets the wood.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/214_frontpanel.jpg)
Mike's wonderful panel :) You're doing a great job for us Mike - Thanks a million!
The AOA and VVI intruments are the ones made in the past by Reactorone, he has a thread down here.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/215_frontpanel.jpg)
Detail of the right side - with the small light and dummy backup ADI (still need to update the round button) and the FF gauge

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/216_frontpanel.jpg)
The RWR is the one driven by the UCC it's a 128x128 LCD. I made the front face in plastic and the bright pot is functionnal as well. I placed a transparent PVC sheet above the LCD with the RWR zones preprinted. That allow me to draw the F4 RWR without the lines and that helps a lot the clarity of the symbols  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on November 10, 2005, 11:09:24 AM
Wow Red Dog!!!!  :shock:

The center console is beautiful.  Great attention to detail!  Thanks for sharing the pictures.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: HOLLYWOOD on November 10, 2005, 11:34:26 AM
red... i hate you  :shock: ..... thats absolutely amazing..... it looks like a viper somewhere is missing some hardware  :wink:
how did you get the icp column moulded in fiberglass??
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Hack on November 10, 2005, 11:57:49 AM
WOW.

I only have two things to say.  

1. Holy crap that looks great!

2. Where can someone get thier hands on  the ICP housing?

OK...gonna say #1 a few more times......


Justin
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on November 10, 2005, 12:23:34 PM
all of the above and another WOW,

amazing job you've done there.

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on November 10, 2005, 01:06:23 PM
STUNNING!!!!!!!!!!!! :beer:


I'm interested in your RWR art...  :)  Great work,,,raising the watermark for all of us!
Title: Center console
Post by: Rayman on November 10, 2005, 04:32:05 PM
WOOOOOWWWW,

Thats fantasic Oliver,

Still gasping for oxygen.

Love the MLU black, time for a repaint....

Cheers,

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Mil on November 10, 2005, 05:19:04 PM
WOW excellent work !!    :shock:    if mine will look half as good i'll be happy ...

grts Mil
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on November 10, 2005, 07:14:52 PM
Outstanding work!!!

Where did you get the ICP console?

Can you get more of them and how much?

Marv
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Venom on November 10, 2005, 07:39:48 PM
simply amazing!!!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2005, 10:51:45 PM
Saweeet!!   :shock:  That loud smacking sound is my jaw hitting the floor.

Cheers,
Jason
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 11, 2005, 04:50:40 AM
Thanks guys,

I can't take credit for the whole work since once again, I've been helped a great deal.

Quote
I'm interested in your RWR art...

No problem, I'll send it to you so you can also post it on the download section.

Quote
Love the MLU black, time for a repaint....

Yep black is neat - only problem it attracts the dust much more than grey :) That means we MLU cockpits builders will need to clean the pit more often :)

Quote
Can you get more of them and how much?

Nope - The ICP housing was a one shot I'm afraid - but if you aren't lazy like me, Jason's plan will get you one just as nice  :wink:  

Quote
That loud smacking sound is my jaw hitting the floor.

Yeah - I know that sound, I hear it everytime I see one of your drawings  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 29, 2005, 03:56:45 PM
while waiting for some components to arrive, I decided to paint some resin button I got from Biohazard. Since a lot of you have resin buttons now - here are some advice  from my modelling experience.

Resin always first need to be washed to clean the residues of the molding agent, so always wash them in a hot water with soap bath. regular dish soap will do. Then let them air dry long enough.

I always use a primer for the resin as well. Mr surfacer from the gunze range is great because it will fill microbubbles at the same time. it can be sprayed with an airbrush. Otherwise, any light grey or even matt white will do.

If you paint a transparent resin, use a white primer to maintain the backlight possibility.

Once the button is painted white, you need to mask the thin line remaining white. I use masking tape (tamiya brand is fine) or even MASKOL (it?s a liquid mastic that you can apply with a brush and then peel off very easily when dry. Perfect for masking curved shaped for instance)

In some cases, there is a black outline to that white strip. You can mask around it and paint the area black. once the paint is dry mask it with tape again so you can start painting in grey.
refrain from removing any masking tape too soon :)

The grey colour might be a problem to get it right. But I feel that the important thing is that it looks good to you. Personnaly, I ran some test by comparing a real button from a chaff&flare panel (thanks Jim) and other colour palettes. the real one is pretty dark and since I plan on wheater my buttons later, i need to use a lighter shade of grey.

So I painted test strips to choose my colour:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/220_buttons.jpg)
left one is the real.

The one closely matching my need is H334 from the gunze range. Those are acrylic paint jars easily found in any model shop.
But as I said, they are too light if you want to get the real colour. The best reference for that purpose is Tamiya XF53. H307 from Gunze is not bad either. The good stuff about the Tamiya XF53 is that you can probably find them as a spray can - the gunze will need to be applied with an airbrush.

Now you can remove the masking tape layers :)

When they have dried 24hours, apply a spray of Dull coat (matt varnish) on the whole button to protect them.

By the way ? do drill them BEFORE painting to avoid damaging the paintwork. :)
 
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/221_buttons.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: INBOUND on November 29, 2005, 06:42:29 PM
Fabulous work!  I hope mine turns out as nice as yours someday!!!

   - INBOUND
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on November 29, 2005, 09:22:39 PM
Thanks for the paint tips Olivier, i can use them
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 02, 2005, 05:12:03 PM
Took a lot of time but the buttons are painted.
I realized I'd need 6 or 7 switchguard and only have 1 :) So I decided to make a few of them with aluminium sheets.

That's the prototype - dims comes from the real one I got on the chaff and flare panel. 2 parts bent accordingly and an axle I still need to create:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/222_switchguard.jpg)(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/223_switchguard.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/224_switchguard.jpg)(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/225_switchguard.jpg)

Still need to tweak it before I paint it and after that I need to figure a way to make the double switch guard for the EPU.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 02, 2005, 11:25:31 PM
Nice work, as always Olivier!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on December 03, 2005, 02:51:25 AM
looking great RD,
any chance of posting those dims ?

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: dimebug on December 03, 2005, 05:48:07 AM
very nice, well done, we want the dims  :twisted:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 03, 2005, 06:59:52 AM
Here are the dims.
That's the best i can do at this time, no scanner at home, so I won't be able to scan my millimeter paper before Monday.

I guess that will be clear enough.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/226_switchguard_drawing.jpg)

read thickness iso width :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on December 03, 2005, 07:10:51 AM
Olivier I've already started puting your dims in a CAD drawing. I hope you don't mind if I ask for some aditional dims. Especialy in the bend shape (I'll post a drawing later to show what I mean).

For the axis you can use roll pins (I think that's what the original uses). Just make the holes on the upper .1 - .2mm bigger. Also I think there's a leaf spring that holds the upper at both positions, is that so? That would be hard to make.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 03, 2005, 07:26:22 AM
no problem, Nikolas - just let me know what you need as additional dims; I'll be happy to provide.

For the axle, I was thinking about a simple metal rod, that should do it.

yes there's a kind of spring  consisting of a bend metal plate riveted on the first parts attached to the switch.
I won't do that one - not worth it IMHO since in my case, the switch guards i'll place will mostly for dummies switch like the zeroize, nuclear,...
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on December 03, 2005, 07:27:50 AM
Great work Oliver.  Thanks for posting the dims.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on December 03, 2005, 08:05:36 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
no problem, Nikolas - just let me know what you need as additional dims; I'll be happy to provide.

For the axle, I was thinking about a simple metal rod, that should do it.

yes there's a kind of spring  consisting of a bend metal plate riveted on the first parts attached to the switch.
I won't do that one - not worth it IMHO since in my case, the switch guards i'll place will mostly for dummies switch like the zeroize, nuclear,...


Oliver,

The switch guards I have were made from a guy from simpits, (forget who) anyway, he had a pretty simple and genious way of making them spring loaded.  I forget how he did it, but I will look at it, later when I get home and take some photos here at work with our evidence camera for some nice close 1/1 detail photos.  That might help you out.

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 03, 2005, 12:51:27 PM
Found this in Jags thread,, Looks like Prohm's drawing

Courtesy of Michi




(http://www.f16simulator.net/viperforum/guard01.JPG)

(http://www.f16simulator.net/viperforum/guard02.JPG)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 05, 2005, 08:29:28 AM
Jody, looking forward to that idea :)

Mike, the watch pin is  a pretty clever idea :)

I worked on the front glareshield during the week-end. You know that the A model glareshields are smaller than the MLU/B50 glareshields, so to be able to install the F-ACK and IFF switches holder, the A glareshield needs to be heavily modified.

Once again, Biohazard came to the rescue with a plan to modify them with fiberglass and even a dummy like me could do it :) Philippe and I will try to post a "how to" for the whole modification as freetime permits in the coming weeks.

So here's the modified glareshield, naked but painted in black already.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/228_glareshield.jpg)
The master caution support was done in aluminium sheets since mine is not a real F16 MC. The eyebrow support is already screwed on the glareshield.

Next step was to populate the GS with all the subassemblies: eyebrow, MC, spotlight, indexer, misc switches and misc panel and well as the dreaded F-ACK and IFF button holder. On this one, the 4 buttons are available for programming although only the F-ACK is really needed. The F-ACK and IFF button still need some more work since they go too deep into the casing.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/231_glareshield.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/230_glareshield.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/232_glareshield.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/234_glareshield.jpg)

I also made two indexer support to go between the indexer and the glareshield. Made in MDF and painted in black. I will post dims of those later on.
I know I used the bad indexer for the picture, I was too lazy to disconnect the other one.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/235_supportindexer.jpg) (http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/236_supportindexer.jpg)

Hope to show you a picture with the assembled component with the lights ON tonight  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on December 05, 2005, 12:04:08 PM
Nice job Oliver.  I'm very interested to see your "how to" on this.  I have the same Glare shield and need to make the same mods.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 06, 2005, 05:36:02 PM
In old christian Europe, december 6 is a day long awaited by the children ... That day, when they wake up - the fireplace is filled with present for them that an old man brought during the night. The old man is named Saint Nicolas.
Today, Dec 6, He came for me as well - he brought a big cardboard box filled with panels and other goodies.
So after having built and installed the kid's toys, I assembled mine :)

Thank you Saint Nicolas from Ft Wayne, indiana :)
Oh and Jay, thanks as well for all the stuff you did for me on that one.

The HUD, Light and Airsource panels were assembled and placed in the prepainted right console. As you see, I won't use Dzus, I simply installed aluminium corner section to support the panels backplates.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/237_panels.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/238_panels.jpg)
I still miss the SNSR and the Avionic power and the space behing the airsource will host the first SIM panel with the headset and mike jack and xkeys programming switches and leds.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/239_panels.jpg)
Close  up on the Hud panel. The switches are std electronic switches excet the last ones which is from AGT. The caps are resin

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/240_panels.jpg)
The nuclear is a real one and I still need to do the blank plate that goes behind it.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 06, 2005, 07:52:09 PM
Those photos are starting to resemble the awsome MLU pictures you took!
Nice work Olivier as always Can you share a little info on how you mounted the backplates with out Dzus rails?  I'm interested.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on December 06, 2005, 08:01:42 PM
RD,

Great work!!  Its really cool to see a different flavour viper for a change..  That being MLU of course!!

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Anonymous on December 06, 2005, 11:23:32 PM
:shock:   Very nice!  Keep up the good work!


Cheers,
Jason
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: showtime817 on December 07, 2005, 03:03:38 PM
Quote from: "Marvin"
RD,

Great work!!  Its really cool to see a different flavour viper for a change..  That being MLU of course!!

Jody


I'm really digging RD's MLU pit, that maybe the way I go.  

I also took a tour at Lockheed Martian last weekend saw bunch of MLU and it was awesome.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 10, 2005, 03:48:14 PM
Some of you wanted to know more about my homemade Dzus system.
Well, it's pretty simple.  :lol:

I used regular half square section in aluminium, they are 10x10mm

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/243_dzus.jpg)

Since I'm working on the left console; Here's the implementation of the rail system into the console

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/244_dzus.jpg)
two section will be screwed together. One end is attached to the Left aux holes where the real Dzus are attached. The other are bent acordingly so they can be screwed directly into the wood flesh.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/245_dzus.jpg)

Attached in the console:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/246_dzus.jpg)
The above rail has been slightly bent and is attached to the side wall, the double one in the middle is attached as explained above and the lowest one is a real part pretty interesting to use to position the throttle arm correctly. :)

View from inside:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/247_dzus.jpg)

I will attach the backplates to the rail by simply making a hole where needed and using a round allen screw that looks like a Dzus or even better a mold of a dzus where a regular screw will go into.
if it's stupid but works, it ain't stupid  8)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/251_panels.jpg)

This system creates some problem when installing some panels like the O2 panel because my rails are larger than Dzus rail. but aluminium is very easy to handsaw :)

Some shots of the panels installed on the left console:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/249_panels.jpg)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/248_panels.jpg)
Panels & switches are unfinished but already looking good. Did I say Mike's panels were terrific :)

Finally, I couldn't resist spending some more time to install the throttle arm in position so I can start thinking about how to implement it and placing the throttle rail :) And not the least, make that damn handle section to allow attaching the cutoff release and the arm on my Cougar handle ...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/250_throttle.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 10, 2005, 03:55:20 PM
Thanks for the info on the mounting system, seems to work fine.

Your pit is looking great, makes my heart go pitter patter and great inspiration!! :beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on December 10, 2005, 04:07:31 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"

I will attach the backplates to the rail by simply making a hole where needed and using a round allen screw that looks like a Dzus or even better a mold of a dzus where a regular screw will go into.


Gwen had come up with a great idea. IIRC you have access to a lathe, right? Take some aluminum rod with the same outside ? as the dzus stud, drill a hole for the screw with a counterbore for the head. Brake the edge with a file, cut to apropriate lenght and paint black.

Using aluminum angle is very simple and efficient. I want to machine my own Dzus rails which is somewhat crazy since they won't be visible when I instal the panels. However I liked the sample I made so much that I think I'll go with it. Besides, what isn't crazy in this hobby...

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Python on December 11, 2005, 01:23:42 PM
Looking good RD!!  I can't wait to get to this stage of my project.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 13, 2005, 04:13:11 AM
Thanks for the comments guys

Nikolas,
Well I think I will avoid getting too complicated on this. The idea will be to use M4 or M5 allen screws to attach the backplates to the rails. I will simply thread correspondingly the rail hole so I don't need to install a bolt below which could prove difficut for the last panel that is installed :)

I feel it's not worth the hassle since as you said, it's below the panel and invisible; on the visible face, a allen screw looks pretty similar to a Dzus and that will be more than enough for me.

But you're right on the quality of your sample, it lookk damn fine.
I have to apologize to you :) At first I thought you were a great CAD designer, with the last part you machined, i see you're a great machinist as well :)

Back on topic,
Some months ago, I inquired about what keyboard would be suitable for our cockpit project.
I'm about to start looking for one and I want to get one as small as possible, that could go on the right console
USb or PS2, preferably backlighted, but the really important part is that it needs to be tiny.
Qwerty will be fine, since I'm sure I'll never find azerty  :o

Any idea, comments, what are you guys using?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: SharkNoir on December 13, 2005, 07:47:26 AM
And for the RWR ?

Have you a fonctionnal RWR and some pictures on it if it works ?

Ok i will exit !  :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on December 13, 2005, 08:17:04 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Thanks for the comments guys

Nikolas,
Well I think I will avoid getting too complicated on this. The idea will be to use M4 or M5 allen screws to attach the backplates to the rails. I will simply thread correspondingly the rail hole so I don't need to install a bolt below which could prove difficut for the last panel that is installed :)

I feel it's not worth the hassle since as you said, it's below the panel and invisible; on the visible face, a allen screw looks pretty similar to a Dzus and that will be more than enough for me.



Red Dog,

Good choice..  I also used Allen Bolts  (that's what I call them :wink: ) and they thread right into my panels.  They have a slight appearance to a zuez fastener, and are easy to work with!  For some panels that have "pull to unlock" switches, such as the JFS, I even put bolts on them to make sure they are secured tightly, so they don't come lose over time.

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on December 13, 2005, 10:28:39 AM
RD thanks for the compliments. You and Marvin are obviously the voice of reason. I'm probably overcomplicating things but it just stuck in my head that I MUST have Dzus rails!

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 13, 2005, 01:28:17 PM
How about the small KBs used for Pocket PC. You might find one in a Bluetooth configuration and you can buy a USB BT dongle for your PC real cheap?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 13, 2005, 01:35:05 PM
I agree, the capscrews are a good compromise, they look good on Jody's pit. I was thinking of using a 1/4-20 capscrew, then making castings for the
screwslot in resin as inserts, anyhow,, the way I see it, our pits are just big wonderful fasads anyway :).

Since the Dzus rails got for the price of gold, I like the aluminum angle
idea and will probably follow down that path. For those decking their pits out with 99.9% real parts, its probably more logical to go the real Dzuz route.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on December 13, 2005, 01:36:52 PM
Quote from: "Charos"
RD thanks for the compliments. You and Marvin are obviously the voice of reason. I'm probably overcomplicating things but it just stuck in my head that I MUST have Dzus rails!

Nikolas


Nikolas,

I think we all make or made that mistake.  When we first set out on this goal we all want one thing.  And that is as real as it gets..  However, due to money, information, or just a pain in the butt, we sometimes need to compromise.  I don't think anyone should feel the lesser, if they made a compromise and did not have something that was authentic.  For me, I just want to use my pit, and quit building and spending money on it.  So I made many compromises to get me where I am now.  And that is Flying!!!

Jody  8)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on December 13, 2005, 06:04:16 PM
I have taken aluminum dowel rod that 3/8" round, drilled a hole in it, and countersunk the one end used a slotted flat head screw to make fake Dzus fasteners.  I think the screw was an 8-32 or 6-32 flathead.

I had to turn the head down a little to get the right diameter, but they looked dead nuts on and can be screwed in-out like a normal screw.

Quote from: "Kabar03"
I agree, the capscrews are a good compromise, they look good on Jody's pit. I was thinking of using a 1/4-20 capscrew, then making castings for the
screwslot in resin as inserts, anyhow,, the way I see it, our pits are just big wonderful fasads anyway :).

Since the Dzus rails got for the price of gold, I like the aluminum angle
idea and will probably follow down that path. For those decking their pits out with 99.9% real parts, its probably more logical to go the real Dzuz route.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on December 13, 2005, 06:50:29 PM
Damn, Marv, that's another wonderful idea.  I can't believe someone didn't think of that first, it's so simple and elegant and you'd NEVER know the difference.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on December 13, 2005, 07:24:25 PM
I'm pulling out all the stops now!

Better than aluminum is black nylon Acetal rod.  It is very easy to work and is already black in color.

The stuff you want is .375" in diameter and cut it to about .300" long.

MSC sells it (part number 63383780).  It costs less than a dollar per foot.  MSC can be contacted at 800 645-7270.




Quote from: "Crease-Guard"
Damn, Marv, that's another wonderful idea.  I can't believe someone didn't think of that first, it's so simple and elegant and you'd NEVER know the difference.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 15, 2005, 05:07:02 AM
This is what i had in mind should I not use the allen screws:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/254_Dzus.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/252_Dzus.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/253_Dzus.jpg)

Mike, any more hints on the bluetooth dongle, the idea is pretty appealing to me since it would be pretty easy to install a PDA keyboard in the pit.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on December 15, 2005, 05:25:34 AM
RD,

Wow, those are great!!  If it is not an extra amount of work to do that route, I would say do it!

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on December 15, 2005, 05:33:57 AM
Perfect!

Quote from: "Red Dog"
This is what i had in mind should I not use the allen screws:

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/254_Dzus.jpg) (http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/252_Dzus.jpg) (http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/253_Dzus.jpg)

Mike, any more hints on the bluetooth dongle, the idea is pretty appealing to me since it would be pretty easy to install a PDA keyboard in the pit.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Python on December 15, 2005, 10:38:00 AM
Those look great!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 15, 2005, 12:54:34 PM
Nice fasteners!


Here is a BT dongle listed on ebay for instance.
I'm not sure if the PDA/PPC keyboards require a driver to work, might look into that before purchasing one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-4GHz-100M-Bluetooth-Dongle-USB-Adapter-Adaptor-BK-UK_W0QQitemZ5840366922QQcategoryZ44999QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on December 16, 2005, 11:01:22 AM
Well, I lost the Dzus studs on ebay, so I took it as a sign and desided to listen to the voice of reason. I'll make fake ones like the one in RD's photos and save my machining time for where it counts. I made a sample (will post a pic in my thread when I get my camera back).

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 26, 2005, 03:29:33 PM
Here are some progress made the last days.

Worked on finishing the left aux by adding the TWA from Mike with my homemade photoetched buttons. 3 of the 4 are working pushbuttons, the last one (ACTIVITY) is only an indicator)
I also made the small plastic part for securing the ALT GEAR handle. Since I don't have the real one, I used an AGT handle.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/257_leftaux.jpg)

I also made some progress on the right front glareshield by making the tabs for the eyebrow assy and preparing the center edge to be able to install the DED.
I will soon break my theets on that one :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/258_glareshield.jpg)

And now, the big victory of the week  :shock:  After all it's Christmas  :lol:
I finally have a homemade solution to my stick base problem. This is not 100% acceptable, but it will have to do until I find better:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/260_ssc.jpg)(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/261_ssc.jpg)(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/259_ssc.jpg)

The stick is a special FCC made smaller to fit the dimensions of a real stick base. The base itself is made out of an aluminium cylinder machined on the lathe so the FCC can go inside at a 12? angle. On the bottom the aluminium cylinder is screwed to the aux console so it doesn't move. 
As you can see, unlike the real one, I attached the stick base to the bottom of the aux and not through the connector part on the angled face of the aux console.
The rest is merely eyecandy and consist of a aluminium sheet cut to shape and bent around the cylinder which is attached to the connecting part. the aluminium sheet is also screwed in the cylinder on 4 points.
The top of the base (the white part) is made of plastic and will be epoxied on the aluminium in the week, just before painting the stick base grey.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/262_ssc.jpg)(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/263_ssc.jpg)
At this time, the stick base is attached to the bottom of the aux with 3 screws but I machined a special wahser so I can attach it on 4 points.

Next step, that damn throttle arm  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 26, 2005, 07:19:59 PM
More excellent work!

When will we see pics of it with your ACES installed?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marv on December 26, 2005, 07:43:13 PM
Impressive!

Your SSC looks pretty neat, too.  How much force will be required to get full scale for pitch and roll?

Marv
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 27, 2005, 01:54:26 PM
Mike,
Well - descending the seat downstairs should happen tomorrow :) So I guess you'll have a picture before the end of the week  :P

Thanks Marv  :lol:
The forces are actually the same as the standard FCC. I never took the time to measure them properly simply because the CCP allows me to change cougar axis curve on the fly or though a profile.but you know that already  :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 01, 2006, 03:34:45 PM
I made huge progress during the holiday break. The plan was to get the pit upstairs before today and I failed  :lol:
Working on it one day out of 2 (the other being devoted to social life) wasn't enough. But I hope to reach that goal next week.

Here's the first part of the work; as promised the seat was taken downstairs and since it was never installed on the base, it was a little sterssfull... will it fit, will it conflict with the side console, will it suit the front panel placement ... ?

All these questions were answered at once with a big "YES" it fits like a glove  :lol:

So the first part was to secure the seat onto the base while keeping the possibility to get the seat out and put it on the ground (as it was until now) and still be able to fly. (I don't know why? I just want to keep all doors open)
So I started by taking out the two part of the base :
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/266_siege.jpg)
And cut slices in the wood so the under part of the seat backside could be inserted into the base (instead of cutting it flush) that will aslo help stabilize the seat and prevent it for falling on its back when I sit in it.  :roll:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/267_siege.jpg)(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/268_siege.jpg)
The right picture shows the wood part back in place onto the base.  the seat just snap into position it doesn't move even unscrewed. I will though screw the bottom of the seat to the base with 4 big bolts ... just in case.

The unpainted shelf is the avionic bay. It comes right behind the front panel, under the glareshield (or the office table) and will support all main  electronic components such as the main board for the Xkey, the UCC, some PCBs for lights, the RWR stuff ...
It also stabilize the front panel, particularily on the side of the MISC panel and opposite. Indeed, the front panel being made in wood and being full of holes, solidity may be an issue. So the shelf is attached to the side of the front panel to avoid any movement by the wood ... as if it were made out of metal.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/270_avionics.jpg)
Here is a picture with the first 2 PCB attached. that is the Xkeys devoted to interfacing only the ICP and MFDs and the circuit PCB for the 3 main component of the front panel.

here's what it gives with the seat attached: Since then I lowered the seat by removing the 18mm spacer between the base and the bottom of the seat.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/269_siege.jpg)
I also got myself a nice present from an old friend in Australia: The inertia lock reel handle : the last part I missed on the seat   :P
thanks Dave :!:
I also will need to find a solution for interfacing the ejection handle but I'm sure I'll find how to on the forum :)

I have plenty of other stuff to show you guys, but that will be for later in the week :)

Happy new year
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on January 01, 2006, 03:57:03 PM
Looks Great!!

and Happy New Year!!
Title: ACES
Post by: Rayman on January 01, 2006, 04:27:24 PM
Looking great already RD, now some picures with everything assembled!!! :D

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 01, 2006, 05:47:43 PM
nan, that would ruin the suspense  :twisted:
I have seen it already - even better, i sat in it one full hour at -2?C outside temp, just getting my marks and reaching switches and checking dimensions and feeling  ...  :lol:
Title: Pit testing???
Post by: Anonymous on January 01, 2006, 05:56:30 PM
Red Dog :oops:

So long as you werent naked sat in your pit ...it was OK!!!

LOL!!


Nimbus :lol:
Title: Re: Pit testing???
Post by: Marv on January 01, 2006, 10:07:18 PM
Please don't bother posting that picture.

Quote from: "Nimbus"
Red Dog :oops:

So long as you werent naked sat in your pit ...it was OK!!!

LOL!!


Nimbus :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 02, 2006, 01:02:07 PM
No way  :shock:
Finally started work on the left side wall to support the throttle gate.. that was messy.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/271_leftwall.jpg)
I had to do two ribs (Thanks Jason for your help) to support the throttle gate. Then the two plastic side walls were attached to the ribs around the rail.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/272_leftwall.jpg)
Oustide view.  You can see a lot of patchwork since it was not planned this way originally. So I had to improvise a lot.
the good thing is taht I will have access to the countermeasure button on the side wall. I hope not to destroy the assembly when I hit that one with my elbow in a panic moment  :P
The bad thing is that I will now need to source the yellow spider or do a dummy one myself!

The throttle is not yet attached? I'm still considering how to do the angled plate to use as a support for the throttle axis.

I ran out of aluminium to make the external skin, so I decided to make it with 4 mm wood cut small parts and attached to the curve of the ribs. I'm very bad at that kind of stuff ...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/273_leftwall.jpg)
Then the curve was sanded smooth and I added Fiberglass on it the sand again then again, then again hoping to get a baby skin, but I'm not there yet  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Python on January 02, 2006, 02:26:29 PM
Looking good RD!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: showtime817 on January 02, 2006, 05:59:03 PM
RD it's looking good.

I used a high build primer call Duratec on my last pit.  It's a two part apoxy that really hides wood grain and also it sands rrreallllly easy, I used 180 and then 320 with a da sander and I was ready to paint.  The only draw back is it's about $50.00 dollars agallon.

I use a air nozzle with a tube on the bottom side, and you put the tube in cup with your high build primer and spray the thinkness you want.  I'm about two    mounths away of useing the Duratec on my pit, I'll post pic at that time.

Heres a link on the primer. http://www.duratec1.com/dp04.html

Showtime.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 07, 2006, 03:27:07 PM
well, I spent the week sanding whenever I could and today, I finally attached all sub assemblies together while allowing easy dissasembling.

I was finally able to dryfit all parts on the daylight instead of working in the dark garage.  Here's the current stage:

Side View:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/275_finalassembly.jpg)

I still have paint work ahead and that damn throttle arm is really giving me headaches - Somebody said once, half a degree off and you're screwed and he (she) was damn right. The front part of the Glareshield (the large ones) can be fitted as well. I won't use them for now because my office table comes right above the electronic shelf with enough clearance for the backup ADI, and the screen is placed there.  So all the front part where the rudder is located goes beneath the office.

3/4 view, my best one :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/274_finalassembly.jpg)

Back side:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/276_finalassembly.jpg)
I had to separate the back access door of the seat in two smaller door? I'm pretty glad I decided to place an access there, it makes my life much easier when I screw the seat on the base and to do maintenance on the seat buttons (eject handle and arming lever)

Left side:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/277_finalassembly.jpg)
I kind of like the assymetrical sdes of the cockpit, although I'm still not decided if I'll keep that wall section - that will probably depend on the success of the throttle installation. This afternoon's attempt was fruitless :(
The surface is ready to paint and is pretty smotth. I just have a weird curve on the top section but I think I can live with it.
I did that by trying to go too fast and used the saw like a beginner... never work in a hurry - I though I knew it  :?

Stage 2 of the cockpit adventure is nearly complete. Stage 3 will be cable &wires nightmare.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Loulou on January 07, 2006, 04:42:40 PM
WONDERFULL ! Looks great     :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 07, 2006, 04:43:43 PM
Here are some details shots:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/282_detail.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/278_detail.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/279_detail.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/280_detail.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/281_detail.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/283_detail.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on January 07, 2006, 04:59:48 PM
:shock:  :shock:  :shock:
FA-NTA-STIC!!!
:beer: :beer: :beer:
Congratulations Olivier, it really looks great!

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 07, 2006, 05:07:28 PM
Thanks, Now how do I get into this thing  :P  :?  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on January 07, 2006, 05:22:37 PM
Inspirational!!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: showtime817 on January 07, 2006, 07:59:02 PM
....
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on January 07, 2006, 11:12:07 PM
WOW RD, that sucker is looking like the real deal.  Keep at it.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Anonymous on January 07, 2006, 11:17:45 PM
Now who's the gold standard!   :shock:   Very dam cool Olivier   :beer:


Cheers,
Jason
Title: Pit
Post by: Rayman on January 08, 2006, 05:49:52 AM
Wauw, it looks absolutely fantastic Olivier!!! :partyman:

I know the problem of getting in, that's why i placed the seat on rollers.


Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on January 08, 2006, 08:01:41 AM
(http://files.flareless.com/images/smilies/pilot_woah.gif) (http://files.flareless.com/images/smilies/pilot_woah.gif) (http://files.flareless.com/images/smilies/pilot_woah.gif)

Fantastic work Oliver! (http://files.flareless.com/images/smilies/pilot_cool.gif)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on January 08, 2006, 09:14:38 AM
Oliver, one word : DAMN :shock:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 08, 2006, 03:53:34 PM
Thanks guys,
None of this would have been possible without Viperpit, so my thanks go to you all  :D

Beside taking the cockpit upstairs, I attached the panels on the right console. Charos, this one is for you :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/285_panels.jpg)
The process is quite simple, The false Dzus uses M4 screws and I bore a 3.5mm hole into the half squared aluminium section and i don't even need to thread the hole. I just screw the M4 in and it makes its own thread.
Very easy and no need to use bolts on the inside of the console, quite convenient.

The comparison between a real DZus and the fake:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/284_dzus.jpg)
I think Mike's panel stands the comparison pretty well, don't they :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on January 08, 2006, 05:13:34 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Charos, this one is for you :)


Looking great there! If you use black screws it will be perfect.

BUT: [geek mode] The notches on the real Dzus studs would be aligned, might want to tighten some of the screw a bit more to get that effect [/geek mode].

Yeah, like I was saying, fantastic  :D

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on January 08, 2006, 05:18:25 PM
Fun aside, I have three questions for you:

1. When is that trip to the US?
2. What is your address?
3. Do you leave the key under the doormat?

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 08, 2006, 05:56:50 PM
Lol Charos
I will align the screw... :lol:

As for the black screws - they are hard to get ... but nothing my airbrush can't solve

Your three questions;
1. Next week
2. Brussels Belgium - ask for the sick guys with a F16 cockpit in the garage, they all know me, Brussels is a very small city.
3. Nope, My wife has strict instructions to let nobody in while I'm away

And you forgot to ask if I have a dog.  8) sleeping in the pit  :lol:
I don't but I'll booby trap the cockpit now :wink:
Title: Red Dog
Post by: farenheit03 on January 09, 2006, 03:17:20 PM
A beautiful piece of work.  My wife has mocked and jested about my plans to build a pit.  She walked past a few moments ago whilst I was admiring your pictures. I pointed to the screen,

'Love this is what I wanna achieve'

'Where you planning to stick that?' came the reply.
Wife last seen pouring a large Vodka and going to bed.

Farenheit
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 07, 2006, 06:23:20 AM
Well it's been a while but my pit is stuck between the bed and the office :)
I'm still married so it seems it worked out fine... Altough I'm now comitted to find a bigger house  :lol:  Damn hobby.

I started working on electronic which should be very quick since all components are already working as a side assembly and I will just need to integrate all the different subassemblies in the pit.

All the lights will be driven by the UCC.
I use 2 Xkeys for all the buttons. One is interfaced to the 2 MFD and ICP without the use of leds and the second one is interfaced to all the cockpit switches with Loulou's Xkeys connection kit.
I must say Loulou's work proved to be a great help once again. It will save a lot of cables around the cockpit because the way we can position small 16 or 20 connection card around the cockpit.
Mine has 2x20 switches cards on the front panel, and 3x16 switches card into each side console at this time. Between each smaller PCB, we only have a 20 wire IDE cable running.
It's a hell of a lot easier to interface.
Picture will follow soon.

I spent the week-end working on adding external lights into the pit. I will have to use 2 circuits. One will be 5v to power real gauges and Mfds
backlight and the glareshield lights (where I replaced the 28v bulbs with 6v bulbs. The second one will be 24v to power the dummies gauges I created where I reused the warning light panels 28v bulbs. That circuit will also give power to the magnetic switch once I start using them.

I did some connection clips for each circuit with Cougar connectors. Works fine and it's very easy to add a light a remove one for maintenance.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/290_Vcc.jpg)

Here's the mess behind the front panel. Believe it or not, I already cleaned that mess twice :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/291_mess.jpg)

And finally, here is a picture of the dummy homemade backlighted gauges:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/289_backligth.jpg)
I'm pretty happy with the result.

So far, I'm using the Mal Ind Light switch on the INT LIGHT panel to power both the 24v and 5v circuit at the same time (with a double pole switch). The 3 glareshields lights are powered up separetely and the glareshield spotlights are powered when unstowed.

No panel backlight yet save for the real panels with 5v and white lights which are hooked up on the 5v circuit: O2 panel, Nuke panel and Chaff&flares panel.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/292_02panel.jpg)
Backlighting Mike's panel will come...in due time  8)
Title: Red Dog
Post by: Killratio on February 07, 2006, 07:11:29 AM
OOOOOOOooooooooo....I wantssssesss onessssss!!

Fantastic job!!! It is work like that that really tipped me over to build a proper pit.  Now every day I look at the forum, I see MORE that I want to do!!!

Akers Barnes??? Is that a discount store??

regards and congrats

Darryl
Title: Red Dog
Post by: Killratio on February 07, 2006, 07:11:29 AM
Oh, and thanks for the Cougar plate! Stunning design

Darryl
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on February 07, 2006, 10:34:34 AM
Looking great there, RD. One question about these:

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/porteled1.jpg)

What's the thread for the cover? I think I'm going to make some.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 07, 2006, 01:32:25 PM
Nikolas,

I'll try to measure up for you.

In the meantime - some night shots: It's the same view twice. But the first is backlight only, the second is with the glareshield lights on.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/294_Backlight.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/295_Backlight.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/296_Backlight.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/297_Backlight.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/298_Backlight.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/299_Backlight.jpg)



The gauges backlight and lightbits are not so bright, but because of the long exposure time of the picture, they are very bright in the pictures.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on February 07, 2006, 02:02:22 PM
:shock:  :shock:  :shock:

 :beer: Fantastic!!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Hack on February 07, 2006, 02:21:55 PM
Wow.........that's outstanding. You dont have an F-16 pilot shoved in your closet do you? Man that is just incredible. Great Job Red Dog.



Justin
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on February 07, 2006, 02:26:44 PM
Yes, Very inspirational to the rest of us!!!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on February 07, 2006, 04:56:58 PM
Ok ok Olivier ....
now ... don't think you can fool me !
Pls explain Where the HELL you have stolen that F-16 !!!!

eh eh eh eh eh

Damn Mate .... you make feel enbarassed .... i'm drooling and OUT OF WORDS !!!

GREAT !
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 08, 2006, 09:59:27 AM
Well thanks gents, as usual you guys are as responsible as me for the result.  :lol:
Davide, thanks for the switches  :lol:

Now, is there a shrink in here, because I didn't find the courage to fly Falcon since that beast is in my room ...
 :roll:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on February 08, 2006, 10:06:38 AM
Great work RD.  Breathtaking is probably a better word!

:beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on February 08, 2006, 11:18:48 AM
You better get you're butt in that pit and do some flyin!!

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 08, 2006, 12:19:57 PM
I can't Jay, I have no throttle at this time ...  :?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 09, 2006, 04:27:05 AM
Nikolas;

I'm not sure about the thread but it is 12mm (11.7mm) for the cover and 7.8mm for the smaller thread. That makes me think about a M12 for the cover but the thread seems pretty close one another to be M12.
But as you see I'm no specialist.
The fact that the real cover goes on it, and I guess the real cover is imperial and not metric, makes it probably metric but close to an imperial value.
Indeed, the cover fits but can't be screwed to the end of the thread.


Quote from: "Charos"
Looking great there, RD. One question about these:

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/porteled1.jpg)

What's the thread for the cover? I think I'm going to make some.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: HOLLYWOOD on February 09, 2006, 10:34:23 PM
OMG RD thats insane....jesus that makes me wanna get building like mad.... amazing, you never cease to amaze me!!!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on February 10, 2006, 10:56:36 AM
WOW  :shock: .

Red Dog - amazing work !
I have no words to describe my enthusiasm.

Asi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nutty on February 10, 2006, 05:51:17 PM
Doesn't backlighting just look superb! I wish my RealSimulator gear was backlightable :(

Great work RD as always ;)

Cheers

James
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Killratio on February 11, 2006, 11:59:47 AM
Ah RD,

Now you have made me add backlighting to the list of things I HAVE to do.

Darryl
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Surfin on February 11, 2006, 12:44:10 PM
Hello Reddog

What do you plan to get (I talk about cockpit stuff   :wink:  ) in US   ?

Do you plan to assist at la Fert? Alais Airshow ?

bye
y
e

Jean-Yves
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 18, 2006, 03:59:14 PM
Surfin,

I don't know yet about La fert? :)

I'm slowly interfacing panel by panel with Xkeys. It's doing well but Loulou 'kit is helping me greatly.
It's a kit of PCB with a motherboard and the possibility to connect 8 smaller Pcbs to connect the pushbuttons, toggles, rotary switches...
The Motherboard is designed to connect 2 smaller PCB for the frontpanels and 3 PCBs on each side of the cockpit (for the dide consoles.)

Only a 20 wires Computer cable is running from one PCB to another since they are chained and it really ease up the wiring of the cockpit.


(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/301_loulou.jpg)
Loulou supplied me the raw PCBs and the manual, once the components have been sourced (leds, connectors, ...) the PCB holes are made with the proxxon and the soldering can start.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/302_loulou.jpg)

Once done, the smaller PCBs are connected to the motherboard and the buttons can be connected on the smaller PCB. Each position is marked according to the raw# and column# so it's really easy to program the Xkey with macrorecorder.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/303_loulou.jpg)

Finally, a picture of the motherboard already installed in the cockpit
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/304_loulou.jpg)

Thanks Loulou  :D
Title: Think I'm with you.
Post by: farenheit03 on February 18, 2006, 04:22:33 PM
I am two months from purchasing my first X-keys.  Let me check if I have you right.  You are simply wiring each panel to it own circuit board then to the Matrix board, And the beauty of this is management of cables...correct? Simply but very effective mind if I copy?
Farenheit
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on February 18, 2006, 04:31:11 PM
RedDog,

I'm just curious why you did not choose the GammaRayV2 solution.  It appears as though you are doing 3 times as much wiring per panel.

I'm just curious cause the GammaRay is pretty simple, and I have just completed wiring all panels on mine and have used a little over 1100 feet of wire now.  And that is the easyway!   :shock:

Jody

P.S. Nice work though!  :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 18, 2006, 04:31:15 PM
Farenheit,
Basically, you're right. except I usually wire 3 to 4 panels on the same PCB. PCBs have 16 or 20 connectors.

Jody,
I didn't because I always used the Xkeys so far and my planning for the toggles and buttons was done already, (beside I already had the Xkeys)

I am now really thinking about a plasma from Leo to drive the pots and some encoders. But I think the button will remain driven by the Xkeys, besides, the programming is now really easy and efficient with macrorecorder.
And I think you're wrong about the cables lenghts. So far I'm just half way of a 25meter IDE20 cables :) And all I have left to wire is the left console. So it seems I used a lot less cables than you  :lol:  :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Loulou on February 18, 2006, 05:13:19 PM
Hello Red  :)

I'm happy to see the X-Konnection kit help you well in your work  8)

You explain the concept from my kit, here a draw about :


(http:// http://phoenix-squadron.imingo.net/fichier.php?u=33&f=X-KEYS_ConnectKit/Concept_X-KonnKit.bmp )

Some informations :

The " Baby " PCB are gripped on the 20 wires computer cable where you want along the cable.
You can connect the 128 switch for the X-Keys with 8 " Baby " PCB ( each PCb can drive 16 or 20 switch ) but you can use more PCB if you want. If you want to use 1 PCB for each cockpit panel ( For exemple with only 8 switch on each panel ) it's not a problem for the concept you can do it without changing something on the wiring, you have only to supply more PCB and to grip this on the 20 wires computer cable.
If you disconnect 1 PCB for extract the cockpit panel , no problem you have only to eject the PCB connector for remove it, but all the other switch who are connect on a PCB gripped on the 20 wires computer cable are able to still work, the commun wiring is not broken.

If questions send me a PM   :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on February 18, 2006, 05:42:46 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Farenheit,
Basically, you're right. except I usually wire 3 to 4 panels on the same PCB. PCBs have 16 or 20 connectors.

Jody,
I didn't because I always used the Xkeys so far and my planning for the toggles and buttons was done already, (beside I already had the Xkeys)

I am now really thinking about a plasma from Leo to drive the pots and some encoders. But I think the button will remain driven by the Xkeys, besides, the programming is now really easy and efficient with macrorecorder.
And I think you're wrong about the cables lenghts. So far I'm just half way of a 25meter IDE20 cables :) And all I have left to wire is the left console. So it seems I used a lot less cables than you  :lol:  :P


RedDog,

I got yah now..  Sorry, I was not referring to cable lengths, more so the connections.  It would appear from your photos, that all that soldering is about half of what I did thus far!  :shock:   I burned my fingers too many times, so simple was good my fragile hands! :D

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 26, 2006, 03:38:24 PM
here's a picture to illustrate the very few wires I needed for my right console:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/308_rightconsole.jpg)
Yeah, it's messy - but you may agree that there is really a few wires. In there, there is everything needed to wire 5v, 24v, All the panels of the right console (SNSR, HUD, INT LIGHT, AIRSOURCE, AVIONIC PWR)
Plus the lights from the UCC for the CAution panel)
I still need to arrange the wires correctly though.

I also worked a little on the lights such as the instrument lights on the centre feet pedestal
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/309_instruments.jpg)

I also placed the dummy MFD screen:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/311_mfd.jpg)

Also added the spotlight on the right. I did nothing more there than replacing the original 28v by a 24v bulb and wiring it to one of my 24v circuits in the console:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/310_spotlight.jpg)
The good thing is that it can be switched on separately and works exactly like the real deal. Nice item to have handy.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 26, 2006, 03:51:54 PM
Now, the time consuming stuff is not wiring switches (also that damn HUD panel took the better part of a whole Sunday because of a damn switch and a stupid error on my part).
Nope, the very time consuming task is to document correctly that wiring so you can do easy maintenance on the cockpit if necessary. I'm sure it will be like a computer backup ... don't ask if you'll need it. Ask when!  :?

Anyway, here's my way.

I started from using the switch speadsheets done by Mark doran and updated by Nikolas (If I remember right)
Then I added some personnal info such as source for switches and where to use a resin cap.
Then I added a picture of the panel which helps a lot.
On the same tab, I added my wiring in the red frame and finally, a drawing of Loulou relevant  Xkey PCB with the Xkeys column and row and then the cockpit function and all I have left to add is the F4 keystroke.

Here's a pictures, talks better than anything I can say.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/312_switches.jpg)

Whatever you do, make sure it works fine for you but do document your wiring. It's well worth the time spent
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Armitage on February 27, 2006, 01:57:52 AM
Hi Red Dog,

Your pit is looking very nice indeed!

I like your spreadsheet idea and I agree that it will most likely save us a lot of hard work if we keep detailed wiring diagrams.

When I try and work on some of the electronics projects I built years ago I find it far more difficult if I didn't keep detailed notes on their construction and wiring.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Mil on February 27, 2006, 11:08:56 AM
very nice indeed Red Dog ...  

grts Mil
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 04, 2006, 11:49:10 AM
Some two more addition to the current setup:

1. A NSI PS2 trackball gently donated by a friend - I struggled to wire it but thanks to Ray, i got the correct reference and it is now interfaced and working like a charm. I plan on integrating the trackball in a customized panel - with the same dimensions as the Audio 1 panel so it can be placed above or below the UHF panel.
For the buttons, I chose nice (and expensive) antivandal :) pushbutton, the great think is that one of them is convex, the other one is concave (SP?) so It will be very easy to find the correct one in the dark.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/316_trackball.jpg)

2. The other addition is a nice small PCB which is a 8axis, 32 buttons made by Leo Bodnar which he sells for almost nothing :)
Perfect timing since I was looking for a solution to add BMS analogue axis to my setup for the FOV, Volumes, ... It works great along the Cougar and gives access to 8 more axis in BMS advanced setup.
It's also possible to wire up 32 dx button but at this time, I have no plans on using them.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/315_axesanalogues.jpg)
So far I just tested with 5 pots(&button) (one of which is a COugar pot)
Leo's solution is just great  :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 05, 2006, 03:13:55 PM
I put the trackball on a mockup panel made in plastic sheets, just to get the hang of it and see where I want to have the buttons. Tried also to add the FOV pot to see if it's a good solution.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/317_trackball.jpg)

I finally brought the left console upstairs and started interfacing it bit by bit. At least the days of a half cockpit are over :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/319_cockpitcomplet.jpg)

The throttle ain't ready yet, so for the moment, I just placed the Cougar on the console by sacrificing some panels until the arm is ready.
Title: Trackball
Post by: Rayman on March 05, 2006, 04:09:45 PM
Hi Olivier,

I saw you made the trackball panel the same height as the manual pitch :wink:   :D ; that looks great!! Glad i could help with the NSI trackball.

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 05, 2006, 04:30:53 PM
lol Ray, it's just a tad bigger - more like the Audio 1 panel  :o
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Armitage on March 06, 2006, 01:41:35 AM
That trackerball is looking really great Red Dog! It blends in perfectly with your other panels.

Is it easy and comfortable to use where you have placed it?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on March 06, 2006, 06:41:25 AM
Juddging by the mounting location I'm gussing you're left handed Oliver?  Will the trackball still be accessible if the throttle is forward?

Great idea for integrating the PC with the pit!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 06, 2006, 08:51:53 AM
Rich,
Actually, i am right handed

It's by choice that I always placed my trackball on the left side.
At first, I placed naturally on the right but I very quickly found that it was not convenient because letting go the stick to place the trackball on the correct place is a big no no.

So I decided to place the logitech trackman portable (then velcroed on my TQS) on the left side.
Sure it required some accomodation but it comes very quickly and once you get the hang of it, you're as efficient as with the right hand, even more since you can continue flying the jet at the same time
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Mil on March 06, 2006, 10:50:14 AM
hey RD look great,  but what is the FOV knob for ?

grts Mil
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 06, 2006, 10:57:47 AM
the zoom view
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on March 07, 2006, 10:35:57 AM
Red Dog,

Love what you are doing. :beer:
Please rest for a few days.
some of us are just starting , and turning green from envy. :wink: .

Asi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 07, 2006, 11:27:43 AM
Peten,

Thanks but No way - sorry  :o
I'm on the final sprint, ,nothing can stop me know  8)

I want to get back into flying status asap so I want to get done with it - at least reaching a confortable level for flying seriously with my squadmates

Speaking of not stopping :)
the leftaux is all wired up both on the UCC and on the Xkeys :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/320_leftaux.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 27, 2006, 03:30:39 PM
The first magnetic switch has been installed.
I initialy though I would need a complicated electronic circuit but not at all...
The UCC is perfectly able to deal with that alone. read on.

Over the last few month, the UCC has been greatly updated - one of those modifications was to adapt the PCB lightboards to drive not only 5v leds but real aircraft 28v bulbs (or any voltage between 5v and 28v).

The first mag switch will be the JFS start. Although the real one is a 3 positions, I will use a two positions one. Indeed start1 is not implemented, so start 2 will do.
The 5v is not enough to keep the magnetic switch into the start2 position, I used  24v for that purpose.
When the switch is placed in start2, the JFS run and the JFS run light comes on. That shared memory bit will command the JFS switch.
I thus set two output on the UCC for the JFS run light. The first one for the 5v green led which is on the jet start panel. The other output will use the 24v and drive the switch coil. That voltage is given by an external power supply. 28v Vcc is connected to the + of the magswitch coil, the 28v ground is connected to the relevant ground input of the UCC lightboard.
only the minus of the regular led output on the UCC lightboard is then connected to the - of the magswitch coil.
A protection led is connected through + and - of the coil - that's where I had most of my newbees problems  :oops:

- I activate the switch into the Start2 position - at this time the switch doesn't stay in position
- The switch sends the JFS keystroke to F4 and fires up the JFS indicated by the JFS run light on the Jet start panel that comes ON and the coils gets energized and the swicth stays in position
(this happen very quickly 8) )
Once the engine has started and RPM are rising to a certain level, the JFS Run light comes OFF and at the same time the coil is de energized, releasing the JFS switch to the OFF position  :D with a noisy SNAP!

Here's a video of the action
#Invalid YouTube Link#

A big big thanks go to Loulou and Sharknoir to have helped making this first test a success - you guys are terrific :)

Next step is activating the Parking brakes and AP magnetic switch.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 27, 2006, 03:33:54 PM
And while I was busy diing videos, I did two quick other ones

Gear retraction on the gear panel:
http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/ucc/UCC_gearup.wmv

And the EPU panel
http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/ucc/UCC_Epu.wmv

be gentle on the bandwidth ;)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: HOLLYWOOD on March 27, 2006, 04:20:09 PM
holy hell, i cant stop watching that video..... im assuming that is the real gear handle considering how hefty of a clank it makes..... ahhhhh im seriously coming to steal your pit....seriously
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on March 27, 2006, 08:29:56 PM
Very Cool Olivier!!!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Bazooka on March 27, 2006, 08:47:46 PM
Awsome...cant wait till mine gets to that point!!


Bazooka
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on March 27, 2006, 11:31:46 PM
I'm the same, I think I watched the JFS switch like 5 times.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on March 28, 2006, 10:51:36 AM
Nice work RD,

I'm in the middle of that stage myself!  It is so cool watching all thsoe lights work!

Great job
Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Armitage on March 29, 2006, 02:06:40 AM
That magnetic switch and your landing gear lever and lights are looking fantastic Olivier!

I wasn't really sure that I would use magnetic switches because they seem very hard to get but your video has changed my mind! :)
Title: very nice
Post by: Boomer on March 29, 2006, 09:39:46 PM
VERY NICE RD!!!!!!!! :beer:   Your pit is looking GOOOOOOD!!!!!!!!!!! :rock:


Boomer
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on March 31, 2006, 08:41:11 AM
Wow. :shock:
Every time I enter this thread I know I am going to be jealous again.
I was right :wink:

Great videos Oliver.
Title: REVIEW ON REDDOG'S PIT
Post by: Strale on March 31, 2006, 03:14:32 PM
Ok Guys,
here's a quick report on what happened Yesterday in Bruxelles ! ! !

I was there for a Business Trip and arranged a meeting with Oliver to talk about our "insane" passion ......
When we met at the end of "Rue Leopold I" I didn't know yet that in few minutes i would had the chance to sit in Red Dog's cockpit .....

First Of All MY TRUE APOLOGIZE to Olivier's wife and Family for my visit .... and a GREAT THANK to Olivier's wife for her kindness in opening her home to me !

Ok ....

Olivier is a good guy as you can figure out while reading his posts  .... and you have a confirmation of when you look at him and begin with him a talk on simulations and cockpits ... i think our eyes shows our mood quite in the same way ......

I was really impressed when i first saw Oliver's pictures in his posts ... but Guys .... you can't figure out the Impression I Had having a look at the real deal !!! .... The cockpit section is really well reproduces ....
We saw his works on the warning module assy placed on the glareshield... but Pictures don't give them rights !!!
And MEN ... what i could say on the DED and PFD ...... well ... i can't find the right words to describe the actions to press buttons on the ICP and looking the DED changing in Real Time !!!

Olivier set up for me a Ramp Start (ok Olivier ... i will describe this as a tale if you don't mind) ......

>>crosscheck for switches position .....
>>Master fuel on and selector on normal
>>ELEC on Battery

AND HERE THE FIRST SURPRISE !!!
>>The MASTER CAUTION is On ... and without thinking i find my self with >>my finger pressing the indicator .... and the light switches OFF .....
>>(first hearthbreak) .....
>>AirCond is set and then i arm the seat !

Nice to look at the caution panel and seeing lamps switching on and off according to your actions in the cockpit .....

and NOW ......

>>JSF2 ...... lamps on .... switch is magnetically held buy the UCC ....
and as in the simulator when the engine begins to run the lamp switches off and the switch comes back to his position with a CLEAR and AWESOME SOUND !!!!!

>>Avionics On ...
>>Hud On
>>and now let's play with the ICP and DED
The ICP is from DRIT and .... (as I have the REAL DEAL) I can assure you that the one i was playing with had really nothing less than the real one ....
but .. let's come back to the operations.....

The DED is CLEAR and CRISP ! ....
so ....
Bullseyes set;
Alow at 50 feet;
Steerpoint in auto;
and the DED was responding immediately to any "active" press on the ICP .....

All the Rest is "pure" enjoyment of the flight and the stuff ... but ... even if i would tell about it ..... you wouldn't be able to FEEL IT !

So .... a message to anybody that sometime feels frustrated ....
ALL WHAT YOU, ME .... WE are Doing has something Magic inside .....
We have to reach the point we "fixed" 'cause flying that way .... Oh Guys ..... it's almost incredible what you can FEEL !!!!

Thanks Olivier for the chance you gave me !!! Those flights motivated me MORE than everything !!!!!

Davide "One of Red Dog's Pit Proud Pilots !"
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on March 31, 2006, 04:48:24 PM
Be Still My Heart!!

nice post Strale 8)

Have to say, Olivier's pity is a benchmark!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: SharkNoir on April 01, 2006, 05:08:41 AM
Strale have you see the RWR ? and what do you think about UCC ?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on April 01, 2006, 05:17:37 AM
Quote from: "SharkNoir"
Strale have you see the RWR ? and what do you think about UCC ?


Hi SharkNoir,
Yep ... i saw the RWR ... and i was really impressed of it ! ... it's really a piece of art !!!!
What I think about the UCC ....
Well GUYS .. THIS IS THE WAY !!! I can't wait you to release it so i can use it in my Cockpit !!!!
What Olivier can't told me (as he has not any 12Vdc inside the pit) is if the UCC will be able to handle all the different voltages +5 +12 and +24/28 .... I suppose Yes as it is just able to handle 24 ... but in any case You made a GREAT JOB !!!!!

If someone might ask me ..... I write again ! UCC is a POWERFULL and "easy" (as explained by Olivier) System ... and you can do ALL you NEED ! ....

An ASSET to the Development and testing team !!!!

Cheers

Davide
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: SharkNoir on April 01, 2006, 02:59:10 PM
Quote from: "Strale"
What Olivier can't told me (as he has not any 12Vdc inside the pit) is if the UCC will be able to handle all the different voltages +5 +12 and +24/28 .... I suppose Yes as it is just able to handle 24 ... but in any case You made a GREAT JOB !!!!!


Yes no pb, each output can drive +5v to +40v ! (one ouput with +24v, other with +5V, an other with +12v ....).

And you lost the new modification of RD with a real speedbrake and a CMDS with good OSRAMs !
Title: UCC... what is the status
Post by: Drummer on April 02, 2006, 03:56:04 AM
Hi,

I must have missed something on the forum, but can anyone tell me what the actual status is of the UCC and the DED/RWR? Is it available for purchase, almost ready or still in development? Is it only for own personal use or will we be able to get a copy as well?

Kind regards,
Drummer
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 02, 2006, 09:43:36 AM
Thanks Davide for your comments  :D
What he forgot to tell is that lots of switches aren't wired up yet, some are not functionning and I had a problem with MFD2  8)
Anyway, we had a great time talking about that stuff.

Drummer,
You haven't missed anything - the UCC is still under development. We have been rather silent these last months because of delays and new functions implemented but the UCC will become available soon I hope.

I think we are reaching the end and except for validating some stuff, we will soon be able to start productions - so stay tuned.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Bumper on April 03, 2006, 10:50:18 AM
More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids! More Vids!

PLEAAAASSSEEE!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on April 03, 2006, 01:30:47 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Thanks Davide for your comments  :D
What he forgot to tell is that lots of switches aren't wired up yet, some are not functionning and I had a problem with MFD2  8)
Anyway, we had a great time talking about that stuff.

Quote

Well ... if we were in a Judge's Hall i should say:
"that is useless for the judgment" ...  :lol:
really Olivier ... it was amazing flying that bird and as you told .....
WE HAD REALLY Great time talking about all stuffs ! LOL !!!!
Thanks again to You and Your Wife for hosting me !!




Drummer,
You haven't missed anything - the UCC is still under development. We have been rather silent these last months because of delays and new functions implemented but the UCC will become available soon I hope.

I think we are reaching the end and except for validating some stuff, we will soon be able to start productions - so stay tuned.


Quote

What can I say more .... ??? JUST RELEASE IT ! LOL
The day this stuff will come out will TURN Night into Day !
Cheers all !
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 23, 2006, 02:55:49 PM
From ebay to my pit :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/323_elec.jpg)

Beside installing the Elec panel, I haven't much to report. I'm still waiting some parts to proceed but in the meantime, I enjoy flying the pit.

Anyone has any idea what's the purpose of the ABCD light on the elec panel?

Hang on guys, it's worth it, flying takes a huge new feeling  :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ValkyrieOden on April 23, 2006, 03:32:57 PM
Something to do with which FLCS computers are in use or maybe failing? FBW has to have more than one computer.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on April 23, 2006, 03:42:35 PM
Probably so. AFAIK the FBW is quad redundant.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: twitch on April 24, 2006, 08:02:08 AM
yep yep...according to the Technical Orders I have...the ABCD switchlight is to indicate a malfunction with the DFLCS...Digital Flight Control System...pronounced D-Flick.

Another tidbit of information...did you know that the main generator actually doesnt' power the flight control system?  The flight controls are actually powered by the STANDBY generator...trust me...there's four cables comin' off it...and they're a PITA to put on!

Catch y'all later!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 24, 2006, 08:46:39 AM
Thanks Guys,

Incidentaly, I found out that the output of the shared memory for that light is the same as the FLCS relay light.
I guess this is just a workaround with the F4 cockpit and don't know if it's realistic or not ?

On the next images (taken from Martin's website) the left part is a block 50, the right one the MLU:
(http://www.xflight.de/f16/original/parts/left_console/elec/elec_01.gif) (http://www.xflight.de/f16/original/parts/left_console/elec/elec_02.gif)

As you see, the big difference is no ABCD light on the block 50, where instead we have the FAIL light (also present on MLU) but the FLCS relay light is below the TO FLCS (where not present in the MLU)

So far,here's  my understanding of the stuff when we consider the Shared memory of f4:
FLCS PMG = Lightbits2 $1
MAIN GEN = Lightbits2 $2
STBY GEN = Lightbits2 $4
EPU GEN = Lightbits2 $8
EPU PMG = Lightbits2 $10
TO FLCS = Lightbits2 $20
FAIL = Lightbits2 $80
FLCS RELAY = ABCD = Lightbits2 $40

That's how I wired although, i'm not certain it's supposed to be like this.

What I know is that on the MLU, when placing the ELEC swicth in BATT position, the 4 lights ABCD have to come ON and go off as soon as the ELEC switch is placed in the MAIN position, where the light TO FLCS comes ON.
Which is the behaviour I show in the starting sequence right now.

Comments welcome
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 01, 2006, 03:36:14 PM
Some more work on the ledft console and aux console:

Started by adding a directional spotlight up on the rail and a light above the gear panel. It's not supposed to be there but I needed some light. The left console was much darker than the right one and I felt unbalanced, which in a sim is a bad feeling  :P
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/328_pitlight.jpg)

Then the big news is the ongoing UCC beta test which brought a wonderful new item, the Osrams displays which fit perfectly the CMDS panel and displays Chaff&Flares counters.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/329_cmds.jpg)
The proto board is currently placed just below the modified C&F panel but will move into the CMDS from Mike as soon as I receive it :)
Here's a closup:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/330_osram.jpg)
30 Lo 0 are fixed displays. But the chaff and flare counter (here showing 88 in a test session) are operational in F4 via the Shared memory - check the video below.
Also implemented are outputs for the go, no go, dispense rdy, ... lights.
Those will be implemented with leds and stencils in the CMDS.

The displays are interfaced on PCB #3 of the UCC devoted to chaff&flares & speedbrake indicator. It's a different PCB than the 3 other lightboards (PCB1, 2 and 4)

Talking about the speedbrake, it's interfaced as well.
Sharknoir started from his 4 leds idea to give life to the real speedbrake indicator through the UCC.
Last week I learned that the real one only showed no power, CLOSED or fully open, but the UCC is able to show No power, CLOSED, 1/3 opened, 2/3 opened and fully opened.
It obviously needs some more tweakings but it works great already :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/331_speedbrake.jpg)

There's only one thing bothering me, it shows the NO POWER (///) indication for too long while closing but we are working on that.

And here are some more videos:
1/ The CMDS counter in action: http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/ucc/UCC_cmds_web.wmv

2/ the speedbrake indicator and the second magnetic switch installed:
http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/ucc/UCC_brakes_web.wmv
That's for the parking brakes.
last week while doing a multiplayer ramp start, I screwed up big time by not pulling the throttle back to idle and the RPM being above 80% the jet started moving forward... I was head down in the cockpit and didn't realize until a squad member screamed at me  :o
Now, at least, i'll hear the parking brake snapping off  :wink:

I'd like to express my sincere thanks to Sharknoir who works very hard on the UCC altough having a busy schedule at work (and a family as well), he never ceases to amazes me and always tries to implement to scary things we ask :).
The UCC is evolving slowly and all the team wishes to start distriuting those asap, but we want it to be perfect as well.
Sharknoir is the guy bringing that perfection  :D Thanks buddy :!:
If my (and soon ours) cockpit is so lovely, that's because of you
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 01, 2006, 04:09:26 PM
Here's what the displays looks like when installed in Mike's CMDS:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/CMDS_mike.jpg)

Fits like a glove :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 01, 2006, 04:54:55 PM
NICE!!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on May 01, 2006, 05:01:48 PM
AWESOME !

video soon pls !
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 02, 2006, 03:51:19 AM
Davide,
the videos are there already :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on May 02, 2006, 08:49:23 AM
RD,

As alway ,great work :wink:
How did you do the speedbarke indicator ?

Asi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Killratio on May 08, 2006, 10:09:19 PM
Hi RD,

Looks great!!!!

Just with the Parking Brake magnetic lock.....when it releases, does it go to "off" or does it snap back to Antiskid? In yours? In the real aircraft??


cheers

Darryl
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 09, 2006, 03:45:50 AM
Peten,
The speedbrake is interfaced with the UCC. It's a real one.
It's driven by 14v and connected on the third PCB of the UCC

Darryl,
In my cockpit, since the anti skid is not implemented in F4, I used a two position switch. I don't mind the third since it's not used. So it snaps back in the OFF position.
I don't have a clear idea of how it happens in the real jet, I guess it snaps back in AntiSkid position - but again, i don't really know for sure
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 24, 2006, 06:37:39 PM
Well it's been a while - Real life catched me up and it's been more than a month without work in the pit. Luckily during that time, parts converged to my home and I was finally able to get some work done on the throttle issue.
The first part was to rip off the old side console wall supporting the throttle gate, i didn't like it.

With the wall off, I started to assemble the throttle arm and the homemade support that goes inside the console:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/335_throttle.jpg)
The support was made with aluminium plate cut to the appropriate size fitting the insides of my side console. The spacers are coming from the Chaff and flare panels. They seem just a tad longer than needed but do the trick fine.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/337_throttle.jpg)
The Cougar adaptator was casted by Penny and it fits really nicely on the Cougar handle - The axle and retaining pin are homemade and the springs and cutoff release are real parts.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/336_throttle.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/338_throttle.jpg)
Cutting the Cougar cables to extend them has been an experience. Please if you do so mark each one of them :) Some colours comes back as many as three times and I had a hard time with the red ones. Making the cables run through the inside of the arm twisted them and in the end it was very difficult to know which red was in which position. The fact that the wires aren't glued all together like on any std IDE flat cable didn't help.
So make sure you mark eack of the 22 wires correctly before cutting  :lol:
The friction wheel works as advertised. I placed two belleville washers each side of the oblong plate. I think the very purpose of the oblong plate is to prevent the washers to get one into another as they would if there was no plane plate between the washers, ruining the friction effect. Now turning the friction wheel compress the washers and makes the throttle arm rotation stiffer.

To interface the Cougar with the arm, i used a Hall sensor originally from a HS kit sold by Cubpilot on the FW forum. The link between the Arm and the HS is std stuff from RC servo. Below left : the part that goes at the bottom of the arm. On the right, the HS kit with the servo wheel extended in plasticard.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/339_throttle.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/340_Hallsensor.jpg)

The wall was rebuild, inside only for the moment  - I will try to make the outer section in aluminium tomorrow. Here are two shots to illustrate the lift of the handle to go cutoff:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/343_Throttle_idle.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/344_Throttle_off.jpg)
Left: idle, right: cutoff.
Now knowing how much I sweated to get to this part, i'm a very happy guy. But nothing would have been possible without the great help Penny provided for a very long time and by taking the chances and the time to cast the adaptor and sourcing various part for me: Thanks a million Penny  :wink:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/345_Throttle_ab.jpg)
Here's the throttle in AB position. he interaction with the gate was not easy to get and I had to lenghten a little bit the throttle frost to ensure a good contact between the gate and the throttle at all points along the gate. Apart from that, it works exactly as the real one. Just lift it a notch without using the lever to go AB and depress the lever to lift the handle and go into the Cutoff position.
The ALT GEAR was done with a spare Pedal adjust handle connected to a microswitch via a spring.

Now all I need to do is to program the throttle course to implement the idle detend in F4 with the throtllerange syntax.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/342_Throttle.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: luckiest on June 24, 2006, 08:38:59 PM
Hi Olivier,
It looks beautiful and I was glad to help. Excellent job on the wiring.
Penny :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Loulou on June 25, 2006, 02:18:22 AM
Very nice work Red  :)   It's impressive !   :o
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: J.A.K. on June 25, 2006, 09:00:32 AM
Damn Olivier :shock:  Looks great :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: SharkNoir on August 24, 2006, 03:15:30 AM
RD => Test of the UCC's OSRAM prototype on the real CMDS Panel !

(http://users.skynet.be/fa551125/SharkNoir/Images/131_3190.jpg)

Now i will build a pcb who can insert dircetly in the panel (same as the real PCB).

I think we will launch the final test for the first run of UCC, is somebody want it.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on August 24, 2006, 08:38:23 AM
Wow Red Dog that work really looks good, what a great pit you got there.
I wonder if you could help me out on the HW side.
Im looking for the same solution as you on that littel counter messure display you got there.

Is it some thing you sell?
Im just starting on the electronic side my self, and could use all the help/HW solutions out there, so if you have something you make awalible for other pitbuilders the you could PM me.

Looking forward to see more progress pics.

Kukki
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on August 30, 2006, 02:32:10 PM
RD,

I have a question regards the magnetic switches.
I have noticed that the Auto pilot is not a lever lock switch in your cockpit. but your JFS is.
do you have the part number for the lever lock magnetic switch and a source where to buy it? can you also share with us the cost of this kind of switch?

Thanks,
Asi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 31, 2006, 07:18:56 AM
Kukki,
We hope that the UCC will become soon available and I'm sure we will make the proper announcement on VP. At this time we are not ready yet since we still need to final test the RWR and some details in the CMDS implementation.

Peten,
The AP swicthes are regular 3 position switches, not magnetic at this time. reason is that first I haven't found a 3 position magnetic switch and second, there is no room to place a magnetic switch right there because it conflicts with the Left AUX frame.
The one I used for the Start 2 is not a locking type (except that the coil hold it of course) and can be found on ebay.
I have not the part number here, but this auction seem to be of the same type:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Aircraft-Aerospace-Cockpit-Toggle-Switch-Honeywell-OK_W0QQitemZ140023844708QQihZ004QQcategoryZ26439QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I paid mine 40$ if I recall correctly
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on September 03, 2006, 05:39:33 AM
RD,

Thanks for the info.
your JFS switch lever, looks like a lever lock.
In your Video it was hard to tell the exact type of lever.
Is the real thing a regular switch or lock?

Asi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 03, 2006, 07:07:19 AM
Peten,

The JFS switch I use is not a lock type. it has a special head though, but no locking mechanism. As I said in an other post, I feel it's not interesting to have a lock with a magnetic switch since the very purpose of the switch is to move automatically. A lock would prevent that wouldn't it?

Here's a picture that Philippe "Biohazard" sent yesterday for this very purpose. It lists the mag switch type in the cockpit:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/Magnswitch.jpeg)

Thanks to Phil  :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on September 03, 2006, 03:20:51 PM
RD,

Thanks a lot for the pictures.
Now, I think it all makes sense. You DO have a lever lock switch.
I bet you have to pull the switch to start. There are all kinds of lever locks.
Look here at Jay's post.
http://www.viperpit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=353&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60

You can see that your kind is type E lock, I think. You have to pull to start, but it doesn't have a lock on the way back.
This is why your lever looks like that.
The one's on Ebay are model 25E, and 26E. and have a Standard lever.Yours is 27E.

Asi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Biohazard on September 06, 2006, 04:10:49 PM
The last letter of the code number is corresponding to the coding of each switch

- Start 1 / 2 of the Eng Start panel has a E coding
- Pitch of the Misc panel has a E coding
- Parking Brake of the Gear panel has a N coding
- Max Power of the Eng Start panel has a G coding

Philippe
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 18, 2006, 06:04:59 AM
I finally took the UHF for an upgrading session.
Panel was bought off from ebay (thanks Mike) some months ago and now that I have almost all the wiring ready I needed to make a panel for the displays and the damn box with the UHF freqs table.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/348_UHF.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/349_UHF.jpg)

As always, plasticard came to the rescue :) Displays are from my stencils and doubled with a Clear green PVC sheet to avoid them glowing too much. A led will be placed there to provide display backlight until the UCC is able to drive the panel :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on September 18, 2006, 02:29:11 PM
Question RD, is that display real?  Do you have it powered up or is that a dummy display?

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 19, 2006, 06:25:52 AM
Jay,

Nope, the display is eye candy at this time. It's from my stencil sheet available from the download forum.
The only thing I will do is to connect a led back there so it light up when the power is applied. That will be interfaced with a UCC light output.

In the very distant future, we have plans to implement the functionalities of the panel with the UCC working with F4 and teamspeak so the displays becomes useable
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 20, 2006, 10:06:16 AM
Here's a picture of the lighted display and the panel installed into the cockpit.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/351_UHF.jpg)

The two large knobs are functionnals and although the smaller knobs are not supported by F4, I plan on using the left most for switching frequencies on TS when needed.
The only stuff I can't wire ifs the encoder for the channel because my cockpit is not encoder friendly at this time  :o
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on September 20, 2006, 10:10:20 AM
Great work, RedDog!

That looks really nice!
I decided to use 7-segment displays in my UHF-panel, hopefully I'll soon be able to post some pics of it...

greetings
michi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 20, 2006, 10:15:18 AM
Thanks Michi,

The 7 segment displays is a much more elegant solution :) which we will lean to with the UCC in the future as well. But since I wanted to have that nice panel in the pit ASAP, I needed a temporary solution  8)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Sledge on September 20, 2006, 10:19:50 AM
Wow!  You do amazing work Red Dog!  Inspiring, as always!  Thanks for the pics!

-Sledge
Title: Clear Pictures of lighted pannels
Post by: Dunk on September 20, 2006, 10:25:49 PM
RD,
how do you get such Clear Pictures of lighted pannels in your pit.
are you using a very high quality camera?
mine is just a 5 MP kodak, but i think i must be doing somthing wrong, because my pics are so blurry, especialy when i try to take pics of the pannels when lit up.
Thanks

The Comms pnl looks awsome like all of your stuff  BTW
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 21, 2006, 04:14:49 AM
KW,

I'm used to do a lot of plastic model photography and although I do have a fairly good camera, there are some tricks one can learn to do such kind of photography.

Basic photography evolves around two variables : Speed and aperture.
Sorry for the english, I'm not really used to the technical words of photography in english

First, light is quite important. the higher speed setting you use, the less light comes into the camera. (because the shutter opens and close very rapidly)
So in a fairly dark environment, you will need to use a low speed setting, so the camera remains open the longest time possible so the more light can get into your picture.
Problem: low speed camera settings makes a great risk of blur because the man behind the camera moves (or because of shutter movement)
Solution: Use a tripod and eventually the time counter to take the picture (the simple action of depressing the shutter button with your finger might blur the image in certain circonstances.
Personnaly, I dare descent to 1/30 without using a tripod, but anything below 1/30 needs a tripod. Still that minimum value depends on the photograph. Some are able to go much lower without tripod.

Secondly, the other aspect is aperture. It's the opening of the diaphragm.(sp)
The higher it's opened, the more light comes into the camera as well. But high opening are given by a low Fstop number. (4.5 - 5.6 - ... 20 - 22).. yeah that could have been simplier  :D
The aperture gives the depth of field of the images and that is very important when you do Macro photography because you don't want to have the back of your subject blurred most of the time.
To have a large depth of field area (unblurred image), you need to use high Fstop. but high Fstop number means small diaphragm opening - thus not a lot of light entering the camera - to compensate, you need to use a low speed camera setting (to allow a max of light going in) -> use a tripod.

Here's an example:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/342_Throttle.jpg)
On this photo, I wanted to have the background blurred to emphasize the throttle. So low Fstops number were used for the aperture. The depht of field is small and everything beyond the sharp zone= throttle) will be blurred. Had I wanted to have the left aux sharp, I should have used a higher Fstop number and decrease the speed setting as a consequence...

basically, the secret of macro photography is to use a tripod, long exposure time (low speed setting) and High Fstop number for the aperture (long depth of field)

Photography is always tricky because the photographer always needs to find the best compromise between Speed and aperture.

I'm still learning, so don't take the above for granted, that's just my own experince with photographing.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on September 21, 2006, 07:27:01 AM
Hi RedDog,

Your pit inspired me for a long time.... and still is!!!

Now your picture experiences and explanation will help me even more.

Merci, Olivier!

Keep up the good work!
Title: Camera Knowledge
Post by: Dunk on September 21, 2006, 09:01:00 PM
Yea RD,  you sure taught me a whole bunch just with that Post.

Thanks,

KW
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 18, 2006, 05:47:21 AM
Hi gents, I just wanted to make a small report of my first demo with the pit. Although going out showing the pit has never been a motivation for me, I got convinced to attend an open door week-end made in Brussels by Simware simulation. They showed lots of cockpits mainly commercial, gliders, cars, civil airplane, but I was the only one with something military.

The week-end was great but it was a lot of work to dismantle the pit, and bring it there - and all the week-end I was sick with worry something might break. The show went great with minor damage thanks to a few friends who helped me keep a close eye on the cockpit. We did flight and ramp starts demo, thanks to member of my squad and some guys were able to give it a try to land the F-16.

Of course I made a small leaflet so I could give credit to all the help I got from this very website ... So Mike and Penny and Jason ... beware, the mob know what's you're up to  :D  Luckily, Belgian sim guys are very sparse so you shouldn't have too high a peak in traffic  :lol:

So the week before the show I worked very hard to finish some stuff such as the left external wall that I replaced with bent aluminium. That was so nasty I had to fill in the irregularities with fiberglass mastic.
I also placed the big glareshield and it just gives a great look to the pit. That part make it sure look like a F16 pit. I also added some flood lights on the left side.

Enough talk, here are a few pictures:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/353_simw.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/352_simw.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/354_simw.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/355_simw.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/356_simw_auge.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/357_simw_arend.jpg)
That guy on the left looks pretty happy :) the one on the right looks like he's testing something. Please meet my friend Arend the designer of the FCC :)

And finally, I can't post pictures of my friends without at least posting one of me, in the cockpit:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/358_simw_olivier.jpg)

I'm very glad to have attended because lots of people were interested in the building process and were quite flabbergasted with the FCC, UCC, throttle modification by Penny, Mike's panels, Philippe's castings etc etc...

Thanks to all of you - once again, this would not have been possible without Viperpit and its members.
I also want to thank Amraam, Co of my squad and Arend Van Oosten for all the help they provided during the show.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on October 18, 2006, 11:43:14 AM
Nice show RD...good to finally put a face with the name.  Looks like you had a great time.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on October 18, 2006, 12:18:10 PM
Very neat report! Your pit looks awsome!!

Nice that you got to display it at the show,I'll bet people were amazed by your work!

Raymond is going to a big show in the Netherlands early next month , I'll bet he gets similar reactions.

Thanks
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Killratio on October 19, 2006, 01:59:41 AM
RD,

I bet that was a blast? The pit is looking fantastic.

Darryl
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Skorp on October 19, 2006, 02:57:19 AM
:shock:  :shock:  :shock:

Very nice work, RD :beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 19, 2006, 04:48:33 AM
Thanks guys,
So Ray goes to lelystad ... might be a good opportunity to go say hello to him :)

By the way, during the show I met the guys from Flight illusion: http://www.flightillusion.com , they do flight sim gauges and they told me they would present their military gauges (F16) at lelystad early november
I saw some of their civil gauges and they look just fine. The directionnal gyro is great and I must confess they got me interested  :wink:

Any one already has some info about these guys?
I heard some guys from the IL2 and Lomac community are already working on interfacing their gauges, but apparently nobody from the F4 community is working on it ...

Any insights, I'm temped to propose some help  :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on October 19, 2006, 06:22:04 AM
Hi Olivier,

Great report, and a fantastic pit!!! You must have had great reactions on it!!!

As you read from Mike i will be attending the FS weekend in Lelystad on the 4 and 5th of november together with Frank, who will demo his Lago update project, and the dutch airforce he programmed, painted etc. in FS9, flight illusion will show their line of F16 gauges overthere, i will try to take pictures of those and post them on the forum.

It would be great to meet you there!

More info on http://www.fsweekend.com

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on October 27, 2006, 08:27:57 AM
Quote
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/356_simw_auge.jpg)


Hey  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  I think i have already seen this guy  :lol:  :lol:  :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on October 27, 2006, 09:40:02 AM
Wow, is that Peter Jackson (http://imdb.com/name/nm0001392/) looking over his shoulder? ;)

It seems like EVERYONE wants a glimpse of Oliver's pit  :beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on October 27, 2006, 05:40:45 PM
eh eh eh eh eh  .....
probably Olivier and his pit will be soon GUEST STARS ! .....
Hope You all the Best ! ... and if some Produce need a Wingman for You ..... I'm just at your Six !

Hey .... next 16th in bruxelles .. and this time i will get a car at the airport ! ..... Any LAN MEETING ??? ah ah ah ah ah

Cheers Mate !

Davide
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on October 28, 2006, 06:48:49 AM
Hey, is Arend often flying with Avionics power OFF  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  ???
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nutty on October 29, 2006, 05:40:55 PM
I can't get over how fantastic your pit looks RD. Many congratulations. I've been out of the pit building side of our hobby for far too long, so just reading up about the UCC and other bits and pieces ... it's amazing what everyone's put together!

Cheers

James
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 30, 2006, 04:57:19 AM
Thanks guys  :D

The cockpit is still dissasembled and instead of rushing to put it on OPS status, i did some needed modification.
The first thing was to enable the ejection handle - since the seat was free, it was a great opportunity to make it. Simple design, a rod, some springs and a microswitch :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/360_ejection.jpg)

While I was away for job I also received the last three panels I missed from Mike. I did some surgery to install the AntiIce panel on the right console. I originaly planned not to add the anti - ice panel since it's inop ... but who knows :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/359_antiice.jpg)

I must say the latest panels from Mike are really great - much better than the old one. They are laser engraved instead of mil engraved and it shows. But the eye catching difference is not the engraving, it's the white of the lettering. Now the labels are plain white instead of the semi transparent white of the old ones - and thus it gives a much better result when the panels are not backlighted and I must say they look much closer to the real ones now.
The above picture show the three type. The ANTI-ICE is Mike's new panel, the AVIONIC PWR is Mike's old set and the O2 panel is a real one.

I could have lived with having 2 different panel set (Mike's old set and real panels) but having three start to bug me ... So I'll probably update to the new laser engraved ones...

Here's a comparison of the CMDS panel. Old and new:
Well done Mike, great investment you made !
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/361_cmds.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on October 30, 2006, 06:39:03 AM
Great job RD.  I'm wiring every switch on every panel just in case support is added in the future.  It'd be a shame to gut everything to make previously non-functioning panels work.

One note about the ejection seat handle;  make it tough.  Chances are that when you are punching out fast during simulation you will really pull it hard (at least that's been my experience).

Great job and thanks for the panel comparison pictures.

:beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on October 30, 2006, 02:22:38 PM
Thanks Olivier, having pics on your thread is like having pics on the front page :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on November 01, 2006, 01:11:25 AM
RD,

Your Cockit looks great. BTW, How long it took to assemble the cockpit again?

Mike,

Wow, panels looks great.
"It doesn't suppose look any better then this..."

Asi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 02, 2006, 05:26:31 AM
Rich,
it's pretty strong already - I'm sure it will hold. I like them hard  :wink:  so I put a pretty strong compression spring in there, so I had to take care that the rod was strongly secured in the ejection handle.

Mike,
Sorry for the traffic... next time VP goes bandwidth exceeded, I'll have to send funds to your paypal account  8)

Peten,
Well it took me about 3 weeks, because as i said I wanted to do some more work while the cockpit was dissasembled - especially to some area that I can't reach easily when the cockpit is installed.

But when I took the pit apart to go at the show, it took me 6 hours once there to get the cockpit back to ops status tested and all.
I originally planned the pit to be easily taken apart in 5 main components:

- Tub
- Left console
- Right console
- Front console
- Seat

The seat is easy to move - although it's screwed tight in the tub. but only 2 switches and the loudspeakers needs to be disconnected.

The main systems are placed behind the front consoles so I have all my main connection cables leaving from there and half of them go to the right console and the other half go the to left console. Luckily, it's only very few cables, see below.
The USB Hub is in the right console, so all USB plug go from the front console or the left console to the right console. Then only one USB cable goes to the computer.
The power supplies are all in the right consoles as well but I plan on placing one or two in the left console as well. The main problem is that I use them mostly for the ambiant cockpit lighting and I need to go through the INT LIGHT panel switches that are on the right console.

Left console:
1x 20 flat cable for the Xkey connection kit
1x DB9 cable for the UCC system
1x USB out from Leo Bodnar ministick (direct to right console)
1x Cougar throttle cable out (direct to right console)
1x 5V in redirected to a homemade hub
1x 24v in redirected to a homemade hub

Right Console:
1x 20 flat cable for the Xkey connection kit
1x DB9 cable for the UCC system
All USB cables going in
Throttle cable going in
5v and 24v power station.
Rudder cable going in.

Front console
Main UCC system.
Main Xkeys system with  the XKK mainboard
5v and 24v hub

All my cables go through the tub so they are not apparent. It means some needed to be quite lengthened. But it's way better like this.
The only real problem I have with this is the flat cable from the UCC (front console) to the PFD Lcd (Right console) that cannot be lengthened to go through the Tub. So it's the only direct connection I have for the moment.

If you guys are interested, I can try to take some pictures of the connection pass through in the tub and I can try to make a quick drawing of the 5v and 24v system (actually it will help me a great deal as well  :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 20, 2006, 06:30:56 AM
The work for the past week-end was mainly focused on the cockpit lighting.

Before , I had only one master switch on the NUC panel that turned all the cockpit lights ON. That is backlight for panels, backlight for instruments, spotlights, mag switches coil, floodlights, ...
Thats was very unconfortable since I always needed all the lights ON to have the mag switches coil activated.

The plan was to set different circuits turned ON and OFF by different buttons on the INT LIGHT panel.
Now this is not easy and replicating the real deal might very well be impossible with a limited budget :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/370_intlight.jpg)

As a start, I didn't use the analogue pots to make the light intensity variable. The regular pot can't hack it. I know there are suitable systems out there but they are expensive and as others have pointed out, it's might just not be that important to have. the pot I installed on the INT LIGHT have a built in button and that's the on I used.

Secondly, i tried as much as I could to keep the same functionnalities of the real system, but I had to compromise sometime since I have two major tension: 5v and 24v mixed in backlight and flood and spotlights,...
Careful planning might have avoided the problem but finding suitable bulbs is a problem - so it's even worse when that bulbs needs to be at a specific tension  :evil:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/367_24v.jpg)
I have three different sub circuit in 24V:
1. One is always ON - as soon as the power supply master switch is ON. that one is mainly sypplying voltage for all the mag switches, the 2 utility lights that have their own rheostat and switch and the 2 glareshield spot lights that also have their own rheostat and switch.

2. The second circuit is turned ON by the FLOOD INST PANEL knob and supplies all the flood light: included the one I placed on the LEFT console

3. The final one is supplying the backlight for the ICP and gauges on the RIGHT as well as the O? panel backlight which is 24v ??

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/368_5v.jpg)
The second circuit is 5v and mainly for instrument & panel backlight.
As you see for the moment, only the real panels are backlighted. Mike's panel are still far from being lighted. Same goes for the instruments, not all are backlighted yet.
3 sub circuits again. One for the LEFT console, one for the RIGHT console and one for the center panel. The LEFT and RIGHT circuit are put together to be switched by the PRIMARY console knob and the center panel circuit is switched by the PRIMARY  INST panel knob.

The last knob on the INT LIGHT is wired to the UCC and switch the backlight of the UCC driven LCDs such as the PFD, DED and RWR though a simple switch on the UCC box.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/369_ucc.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on November 20, 2006, 08:43:31 AM
Great post, RedDog!

Nearly the same configuration is planned for my pit, except I don't have any backlightable panels yet. I'm using 12V instead of the 24V, otherwise my system is veeery close to yours.
I guess, I'll copy the idea with the graphical routing for my system, too...

greetings
michi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 20, 2006, 10:41:55 AM
Thanks michi,

i can't read blueprints, CAD or electronic drawings, So I have to find another way  8)

anyway here are the first part of the result of a week-end work's in pictures:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/371_front_backlight.jpg)
Central panel with backlight only. As usual, the gauges are not that bright, the exposure time was long.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/372_flood.jpg)
Flood light only - the right console is not as lighted as the left one ... I may need to add a flood light there

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/372_flood_utility.jpg)
Flood light + the 2 utilities lighted as well

More backlight pictures only tonight
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Hack on November 20, 2006, 11:18:33 AM
Man, that is just awesome looking. Wow.


Justin
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on November 20, 2006, 12:09:06 PM
Excellent work Oliver!  You've really paid attention to detail.  Great pictures!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nutty on November 20, 2006, 02:52:47 PM
The main thing I'm grateful for here is the time you put into documenting your progress in the thread. It is very very useful to those of us who are trying to wrestle all the things that have to be thought out when pit building.

So thanks Olivier ;)  Thumbs up!

Cheers

James
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Killn on November 20, 2006, 02:54:22 PM
Awesome!  I always get inspired when I see your cockpit Olivier!   :beer:  Keep on rockin!!  :rock:  And keep the cockpit porn pictures coming!!  Thanks for your post on the wiring, I also have a mix of 5 volt and 24 volt and will be doing mine similar to yours.  You don't realize how expensive this hobby is until you start buying electrical components!!!   :shock:


Cheers,
Jason
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on November 20, 2006, 03:38:30 PM
Hi Olivier,

Fantastic work as usual :D . I dont have a FCC (yet...., i tried the new one from Eagle, it's a must have..) so i don't have the space for a int.lighting panel. I do use the ELEC switch as the master for the entire pit. It will switch  a relay with enough contacts to give a signal to the interface, and switch the 24V and 5V. From there it will be the same as yours. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Mil on November 20, 2006, 03:56:00 PM
wow, looks absolutely faboulous !!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Skorp on November 20, 2006, 04:39:16 PM
I have no words..... :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

 :beer:  :beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Calvorota on November 20, 2006, 04:58:34 PM
Quote from: "Skorp"
I have no words..... :shock:  :shock:  :shock:

 :beer:  :beer:


Of course you didn't have words... you're a spanish speaking man. Oliver... will you marry me? (just interest, nothing to do with love).
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Hack on November 20, 2006, 09:17:49 PM
LOL..thats a hellova post #4...hehe



Justin
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: farenheit03 on November 21, 2006, 02:01:54 AM
errmmm...I think you have my pit there, can I have it back please?

Beautiful work.

Farenheit
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 21, 2006, 06:35:29 AM
Thanks guys

James,
Documenting his project is the MAIN guideline of the Hobby.
Like Rich, I have a cockpit binder where I store all my documents and believe me, you'll need it later on. We all know the project is never ending and at one moment or another you will need to get back to your notes... It happened to me quite often and I always have been grateful for a decent documentation system.
(Also - sometime it makes a nice self satisfaction feeling like: Damn, that was good thinking keeping that draft paper properly documented :) )

Jason,
Okay, i'll keep the cockpit porn pictures flooding :)
I think 5 and 24/28v will be quite common amongst us. The idea is to have as few circuits as we can possibly have. But Dual voltage is inevitable. All developper shoud struggle to keep voltage in the 5v or 24/28v values. In Europe 12v is pretty common and I sincerely hope no cockpit hardware needing 12v comes in sometime.
Messing with 5 and 24/28v is already quite complicated as it is.

Ray,
Well, I can't tell if that will work, I'm quite limited when it comes to electricity so if you talk to me of relay and alikes, I'll be lost.
What I did before was having my master light switch on the NUC panel because I wanted to avoid to have any risk of current contamination on a switch that is wired to a Xkey as the MAIN ELEC switch would.
I feel that's very dangerous to do. one error and the hardware behind the switch is fried.

Calvorota
 :P  :shock:  Damn, i never expected that  :D
I'll tell you, out of interest (all love aside) I'll accept your proposal ... but in the legal separation regime. meaning I keep what I bring in the union  :roll:   :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on November 25, 2006, 08:46:37 AM
Olivier...
i think that if you would put on the net those pictures nobody would be able to understand that it's not a REAL COCKPIT !

BRAVO ! Great Work .... you're always good arguments to leave us Speachless !

Davide
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on November 25, 2006, 12:02:11 PM
The Cat's Meow!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: gancio on November 29, 2006, 05:06:53 AM
The dog's bau....if it's late CIAO!
Sorry mates I can't resist. :D
RD...Great! You are the man. One of the reason to push me starting into the step.
I start gathering parts...Mike, Strale knows somethings about.
Sooner i will open my topic.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 04, 2006, 06:35:24 AM
As you guys certainly know I have been quite involved in the Force Controlled Cougar designed by Arend 'White Eagle" Van Oosten
The FCC is already 4 years old and last year the original design was modified to fit a real stick base (because I needed for my pit and Arend was kind enough to go through the trouble to make it available to me.

Since then, the sensors have been discontinued and only a few FCC real stick base prototypes were produced  :cry:

Today I finished writting the review for the FCC2 which is the sequel of the FCC and features 2 strain gauges by axis for increased precision. The FCC is really a blast and can be installed in both a genuine cougar base and a real stick base.
Here's the  CW link to the review: http://cougar.frugalsworld.com/fcc2.php

(http://cougar.flyfoxy.com//images/mods/FCC2_final.jpg)

The FCC2 website : http://www.eaglevision.nu/fcc.asp

I want to thank Arend for his dedication to his product and for supporting our cockpit builder hobby :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: DRAKO on December 23, 2006, 04:31:40 AM
GREAT WORK

You are the boss, mate :wink:

Merry X-Mas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 28, 2006, 04:12:15 AM
Nothing much to report over here, except that I am having a great time flying the pit  :twisted:

I'm still tweaking some aspects of the cockpit by trying different ways to implement specific items such as the COMS volume. Originally, I tried to implement them as analogue axis since that was supported by BMS but unfortunately, it is not working in the cockpit although it does work fine in the UI. Finally, I switched back to wire the pot button instead that send 8 times the relevant keystrokes - an idea I read in one of your threads :)

I am also in the process of replacing all the encoders with Pulse button I got from Mike. So far I replaced the HEADING knob on the central panel and the backup UHF channel selector. That one was tricky to install as I had to make surgery in the real UHF panel.
It's not a function that we use a lot in Falcon, yet we do talk to each other in backup mode in our preflight comms in our squadron, so I needed it anyway.

The panel was opened and the big encoder there was cut out and simply replaced by the pulse switch. Luckily, the shaft is quite long and all it took was drill a hole in the bottom plate of the panel - then wiring to the Xkeys and the functionnal backup channel selector becomes a reality.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/374_UHF.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/375_UHF.jpg)

The rest of the work is flight planning and multiplayer flights.

Happy new year guys and don't go too fast finishing your pits because I'm a little sad when I see your progress and having nothing big to finish :) ;)
Title: Acomplishments
Post by: Dunk on December 29, 2006, 12:26:19 AM
RedDog,
Your smalest Acomplishments are mile stones to me.
I look at your stuff with wonder and awe.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on December 29, 2006, 02:19:27 AM
Really good stuff Oliver.  I'm going to pick your brain for sure when I get to this part.

Nice Job.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 10, 2007, 10:56:50 AM
Here's something that will remain eye candy for the time being.
Indeed I will probably remove it when flying so I can see the screen clearly  :roll:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/382_Hud.jpg)

It's a F-16A HUD combiner glass. It seem different than the C model and MLU glass, here's a comparison  with moulded Resin of the real MLU side support

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/384_Hud_comp.jpg)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/383_Hud_comp.jpg)

As you see the MLU support is smaller than the A model. The combiner glass seems thicker also since it makes 17mm and the MLU sounds like it should be around 15mm.
the screws are also not in the same place which will probably create me some problem.

I will now need to source/custom make the two lateral support to place the HUD correctly.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 10, 2007, 01:00:55 PM
I know someone who's jealous of you now.....



.... yep.... it's me  :evil:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: thebeev on January 10, 2007, 07:30:28 PM
Very nice :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 11, 2007, 04:12:36 AM
Any one has the dimensions of the triangular support for the HUD for the F-16A?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on January 11, 2007, 11:08:24 AM
Hi all!

While we?re at it.....

I have often seen a HUD with a somewhat larger, almost circular "glassplate". Is this for real????   :?

And... what are the dimensions, plus - which "Block-craft" would it be in?

Regards,

"GUN"

Gunnar - Denmark
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 11, 2007, 11:51:52 AM
Quote from: "GUN"
Hi all!

While we?re at it.....

I have often seen a HUD with a somewhat larger, almost circular "glassplate". Is this for real????   :?

And... what are the dimensions, plus - which "Block-craft" would it be in?

Regards,

"GUN"

Gunnar - Denmark


I think you are referring to the Block 40-42.
(http://uscockpits.com/Jet%20Fighters/F-16C%20Block%2040-42.JPG)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on January 11, 2007, 12:50:27 PM
You forgot the dimensions mate!   :wink:

Thanks alot! I really like that HUD, so now I just have to figure out the difference as to the Block 52, which I believe is the most build in here!?  :?

Just an idea anyway, as I might have access to glass - so my imagination went skywards with regards to the HUD!

Love those european responses! That way, one doesn?t have to wait for all the "Yankies" to stop working!   :lol:

But then again....they are still on weekend when we start MONDAY?S!  :evil:

Regards,

"GUN"

Gunnar - Denmark
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 11, 2007, 02:33:36 PM
I have no accurate dimensions for you, but I DO have some more pics. Check here: http://www.habu2.net/vipers/viperpits/.

And yes, I hate them americans working,sleeping,eating... they do everything at the wrong time of day :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 12, 2007, 05:26:14 AM
Here's a new addition to my cockpit but I can't take credit for it.
Since I saw that replica in Ricochet's cockpit I knew I needed to replace my Dummy ADI, by another dummy ADi, but much better. So I asked Arjen to make me one, adding leds for backlight. It took a while to get it but it really is a masterpiece. All I need to replace now are the AOA and VVI

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/385_ADI.jpg)

I replaced the yellow leds Arjen used with white leds so it looks closer to the backlight of the HSI and Altimeter (unfortunately the Machmeter is not backlightable) But the white leds are too bright and I will probably work a little bit more to have a better result.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/386_ADI.jpg)
The only thing I would replace in the ADI is the datum (I feel it could be better) and the possibility to interface the flags. Something I'm still considering.

Now, that of course remain eye candy and I'm starting to consider placing a TFT behind my center pedestal to implement the ALT, MACH, ADI, VVI, AOA and a second smaller TFT for the HSI
I know some of you already did that and I will certainly seek advise on which TFT to get and how to interface them as this is really not my field.
I would hate to buy a TFT just to realize it's not suitable for the job.

Here's also a picture I like a lot of the left panel :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/388_switches.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 12, 2007, 05:36:39 AM
Hi Red Dog !

Nice progress your making.

I have a suggestion for your LEDs; cutting off the top half (the lense) and sanding it so it becomes matte will make them spread the light more.
I've used that on some occasions and liked the effect.

Edit: doesn't mean I'm not totally flabbergasted by your pictures - it all looks fantastic; I'm having a hard time stopping my drewling :D Also please remind me to save the balls from the christmas tree - I need to make an ADI  8)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on January 12, 2007, 05:56:08 AM
Looks Awesome Oliver!!! (as always)

Cheers,
Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Climber on January 12, 2007, 07:28:31 AM
Indeed an awesome ADI.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: nightowl on January 12, 2007, 02:59:51 PM
Fantastic work Red Dog.  :D

Your pit just keeps getting better and better. All of your work looks so realistic and is great motivation for me.
There are times when I find that I am struggling with my own efforts , but  I just need to check out your progress and see what is possible and I am remotivated again.

The ADI looks like the real thing to me. Do you have any advice on how to make the globe look so realistic ?

Keep up the great work RD.

Cheers
nightowl
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: eagle_wen on January 12, 2007, 03:11:33 PM
Hi Olivier,

your progress reminds me that I still have a long way to go.

Keep on the good work. Looking great.

Don't be afraid to start making your own instruments...start with a simple one like example the oilpressure.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String2054 on January 12, 2007, 10:15:01 PM
Your work is amazing and most impressive!
I would leave what you have and wait for someone someday to sell a decent set of flight instruments. The TFT screen idea for your primary flight instruments is a good option, but unless your HUD goes out you may find yourself like me, rarely look at them. :roll:
The only flight instrument that I think is great, critical, wonderful, astonishing, necessary and indispensable is a fully functional HSI. The HSI used in the F-16 also has a bearing pointer that is a great tool, plus it?s the only way you can really navigate via Tacan. (just a thought)
Love your PIT and your attention to detail
 :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 13, 2007, 04:45:41 PM
Quote
I have a suggestion for your LEDs; cutting off the top half (the lense) and sanding it so it becomes matte will make them spread the light more.
Thanks Airdance, that sounds like  pretty good tip, i'll try it out. I also have found some white/blue leds from a 5" ADI that I cannibalized. I will probably try them as well

Quote
There are times when I find that I am struggling with my own efforts , but I just need to check out your progress and see what is possible and I am remotivated again.

Thanks for that Nightowl, makes me proud. But when I look at yours I feel like crying :) You have such a gift working with metal
Quote
Do you have any advice on how to make the globe look so realistic ?

Well I did not do that one, Arjen van der Kooi did.
The globe is not the real problem - it can be made from wood (the bowl used on stairs for instances or even plastic balls of whatever. My real problem when I considered doing that one myself was the inverted cone section just before the globe. I don't have the tooling to make that one, so I asked Arjen to make me one full ADI.

Quote
Don't be afraid to start making your own instruments...start with a simple one like example the oilpressure.

Thanks, still considering that.

Quote
The TFT screen idea for your primary flight instruments is a good option, but unless your HUD goes out you may find yourself like me, rarely look at them.

String, thanks - I know you have been there and your advice is godsend for me.

Quote
The only flight instrument that I think is great, critical, wonderful, astonishing, necessary and indispensable is a fully functional HSI. The HSI used in the F-16 also has a bearing pointer that is a great tool, plus it?s the only way you can really navigate via Tacan. (just a thought)
 Well that's a thought I share.  :P  Doing the Falcon navigation charts http://www.combatsimchecklist.net/F4koreacharts.htm I do often fly heads down not even looking at the hud and having the HSI would be such a blast. But then I know me, If I place a TFT for the HSI, I'll be willing the ADI to check my attitude when intercepting the radials and doing minima ILS approaches  :lol:

For the moment when I design my charts, I fly in the down view of the F4 cockpit to see the HSI and that spoils a little the work I put in building the cockpit  :oops:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 05, 2007, 11:09:59 AM
I upgraded my computer and as always when I do that, it takes me a lot of time before I can go back to sim work  :D

But Last Friday I received a new lasered  panel set  from Mike  :lol:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/392_newpanels.jpg)

From past experience, I feel that the only thing missing from Mike's panel is a coat of matt varnish. So I sprayed all the panels with a modelist spray can from the Mr Hobby range (I get them from HobbyLink Japan)
On the next picture, you clearly see the diference between the uncoated AUDIO panel and the DULL COATED MPO panel.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/393_newpanels.jpg)

Beside giving them a better flat aspect, it also protects the black paint from abuse.

Now I will need to find time to switch my old set with the new one... And sell the older mill engraved set  8)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on February 05, 2007, 11:29:45 AM
Hey Red Dog!
Yes those panels just look so good, im thinking of upgrading all mine too, but ill wait, unteil i have wired it all up and bought the epic cards.
Now ill like to get airborne with working panels before cosmetic.  :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 15, 2007, 05:32:03 AM
Since the beginning, i've been trying to find a suitable way to avoid the wiring nightmare of using leds for the panel backlight.

Biohazard once told me that a decent lead would be trying with EL sheets. Those are a kind of neon sheet that can be cut to any shape. They are flat and can be easily inserted between the backplate and the lightplate.
The holes for the switches can be cut out allowing easy positionning of the sheet. The PDF of the backplate can be used for the cutting.

The greatest advantage of course is to avoid the leds. the drawbacks are that each sheet comes with a small inverter box that takes some room but easily placed on the inside of the pit walls.
A more personnal drawback is that the sheets I have are 12v and I have not that voltage in the pit. I will have to add a third circuit.
The sheets are available in White and green, so the white backlight for non NVIS cockpit is also possible

I was told the Sheets may loose brightness with time. Since I have really no way to be sure of that short of trying I think I will give it a try :) The sheets are expensive but I think what i will loose in money, I will gain in time...

Here are the preliminary tests with Mike's panels. I tried with the old ones, mill engraved and the new one laser engraved.
I gave 6v and then 9v to the sheet. I will have to push it to 12v because at 9v the milled panels are giving satisfactory backlight but the lasered panels not (probably because of the added white coat)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/390_backlight.jpg)
That's a milled panel with the sheet at 6v

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/389_backlight.jpg)
The CMDS is the new lasered panel and the ELEC panel is a milled one.
Voltage is now 9v. The picture don't do justice. The sheet not being cut gives too much light spoiling the backlight effect of the panel.
It's very close to the light level of the green backlight of the real UHF panel for the ELEC panel, the CMDS could use a little more intensity which I hope the 12v will provide

I'll report more progress during the week-end I hope.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on February 15, 2007, 07:12:58 AM
Very interesting :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on February 15, 2007, 08:37:36 AM
Cool idea RD (as usual)!  I have 12V in my pit so I'm very interested in this technique.  Can you post a part number of manufacturer for the sheets you are using?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: SpinKick on February 15, 2007, 10:21:55 AM
I was planning on using EL sheets when I started on panels.  The best thing about this option... even distributed lighting!

I had a couple of concerns (after buying the sheets for testing).  
However, these operate on AC.  The transformers I have on hand create a very subtle, high pitch squeal.  As each sheet will require a transformer, there will be QUITE a few of these running.   I doubt if you could double-up sheets to transformers too much before overloading (aka HEAT  :wink: ).  

There is an option I haven't had the chance (or spine) to try just yet.... that's powering the sheet off 110V.  The flat blue night lights are just small EL sheets powered directly off the 110V plug.  I was successfully able to light that sheet with the same transformer and 9v source for the other "commercial" sheet.

Just some thoughts.  Hope it's helpful.  Looking forward to how well it works for you.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 15, 2007, 11:56:14 AM
Sorry for the late answer, I had to delay my further tests...
You are indeed totally right, I didn't notice it at first but the transformers are indeed doing noise.

As far as I know, I can use one of those tiny transformer for sheets up to 180 cm? One sheet being 15x12.5, I'm already over the 180cm?

Even though I can make three panels with one sheet, it's still too many inverter.
I'm trying to get a more powerful inverter to do the job but there is absolutely no data on the ones I have. Beside there is no way to dissasemble them - not easy to find a replacement in those cases.

Anyone has any idea where I could look?
I know there are AC. The 12V power supply converts current from AC to DC. So am I right to assume that the sole purpose of that small black box is to convert the current back to AC?

And so what if I power it up direct with a AC power supply at 12v ?? I don't even know if that stuff exist?

And finally, I have no spec sheet available for the EL sheet I use. To be able to choose a suitable power supply, I need to know how powerful it has to be, so any idea would be welcome...

Sorry for the technical questions guys :)

Here's a shot of the small inverter:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/391_backlight.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: maestro209 on March 15, 2007, 02:05:28 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Sorry for the late answer, I had to delay my further tests...
You are indeed totally right, I didn't notice it at first but the transformers are indeed doing noise.

As far as I know, I can use one of those tiny transformer for sheets up to 180 cm? One sheet being 15x12.5, I'm already over the 180cm?

Even though I can make three panels with one sheet, it's still too many inverter.
I'm trying to get a more powerful inverter to do the job but there is absolutely no data on the ones I have. Beside there is no way to dissasemble them - not easy to find a replacement in those cases.

Anyone has any idea where I could look?
I know there are AC. The 12V power supply converts current from AC to DC. So am I right to assume that the sole purpose of that small black box is to convert the current back to AC?

And so what if I power it up direct with a AC power supply at 12v ?? I don't even know if that stuff exist?

And finally, I have no spec sheet available for the EL sheet I use. To be able to choose a suitable power supply, I need to know how powerful it has to be, so any idea would be welcome...

Sorry for the technical questions guys :)

Here's a shot of the small inverter:
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/391_backlight.jpg)


No to get picky, but I would like some clarification. Are you talking about AC to DC? If that's the case then a simple "Transformer"(or Diode rectifier if I recall correctly) will solve the problem. Going from DC to AC requires an "Inverter."

Many auto suppliers have 12v DC to 120/220v Inverters one can plug into a cigarette lighter socket in a car.
http://www.amazon.com/Linksys-L03040-Power-2GO-Inverter/dp/B00004XRDM

for some installation instructions:
http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/car/inverter.html

I hope I read your mind correctly on this one?

>M
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 15, 2007, 03:36:07 PM
Maestro,

As far as I understand it, the plug in the wall gives 220v AC
there I connect a 12v power supply converting AC to DC at the same time (what you call a transformer)
So I end up with 12v DC and the EL sheets requires AC - so I'm guessing the black box that I look for specs is an inverter converting DC back to AC

I need a larger one allowing me to connect a bigger surface of EL sheet
or
I need another power supply that does not convert the wall plug AC to DC...

But electricity really is not my thing  :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Killn on March 15, 2007, 04:02:15 PM
Olivier,

If the wall power is AC and the sheets are AC, why not get rid of the box all together and use a step down transformer to go from 220V AC to 12V AC?  You could use resistors to limit the current for each sheet.  Maybe by doing this you could power all the panels you require with one transformer and use basic rheostats to control your panel brightness?

Have you taken any measurements of voltage and amperage of the sheets while they are operating?  Knowing that you could calculate what you need to make your transformer.  I'm not an electronics expert, but seems feasable to me.


Cheers,
Jason
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on March 15, 2007, 04:03:37 PM
Olivier,

a transformer converts AC to AC. A power supply converts AC to DC (almost always contains a transformer to deliver a lower AC input). So, it you know (or can measure) the output of the inverter, all you need is a transformer with a 220V input and output equal to that of the inverter.

No need to lower the AC, convert to DC and back to AC...

If, e.g. the inverter outputs 12V AC, all you need is a 220V/12V transformer.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: maestro209 on March 15, 2007, 04:32:39 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Maestro,

As far as I understand it, the plug in the wall gives 220v AC
there I connect a 12v power supply converting AC to DC at the same time (what you call a transformer)
So I end up with 12v DC and the EL sheets requires AC - so I'm guessing the black box that I look for specs is an inverter converting DC back to AC

I need a larger one allowing me to connect a bigger surface of EL sheet
or
I need another power supply that does not convert the wall plug AC to DC...

But electricity really is not my thing  :D


Ok so for DC use the following.
Radio Shack use to sell "Fixed" 9v 12v 13.5v Power supplies. however I was able to locate this:
http://shop4.outpost.com/search?cat=-45490&pType=pDisplay

Any of the 13.5 volt will work fine for a 12V DC circuit. You local electronic (non computer) or HAM radio shop should know what your talking about when you ask for a 12 volt DC "Regulated" power supply.

The Amp rating is how many things you can run with it. That's where the math comes in. (use P = I times E) I doubt you'll run out of power though.


>M

P.S. After reading what Kiln posted I have to agree with him. If lower volt/amp/cycle AC is what you are after then a stepping transformer is what you need. I'll see if I can find a link.

In general mixing AC and DC like that in your pit will cause frustration and is potentially dangerious. I would reccomend staying DC for your backlights as painfull as that is, will save you in the long run.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on March 15, 2007, 07:45:57 PM
Olivier, your PC PS doesn't have a 12v rail?

I have some of these sheets on hand too (Thanks Olivier). Wating to do the testing this weekend. The supplyer did tell me thay are laser cutable.
Will see. Thee are soe expense to them, like Olivier said, but in this hobby, what doesn't?

Olivier, the supplyer did tell me the EL will last 3-7,000 hours. Sounds
like a suitable lifespan.

I would be very suspect and worried putting AC line voltage to them.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: SpinKick on March 15, 2007, 10:20:08 PM
I'm pretty sure the transformer is a step-up transformer.  I'll have to go hook mine up then measure the secondary side.

IIRC it is primarily the frequency, more than the voltage, that is lighting up the sheets.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on March 15, 2007, 10:41:44 PM
Well, just a sidenote to Olivier's post. The EL sheets laser cut wonderfully.
Hopefully Mike Powell will come by here and give us an idea on powering these from one powersupply. The supplyer references "inverters" in the PS, much like cold cathode tubes require.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: LeoL on March 16, 2007, 02:51:52 AM
Part no. NDL-217 EL inverter takes 5VDC source good enough for up to 100-170 cm^2

http://rocky.digikey.com/WebLib/JKL%20Components/Web%20Photos/NDL-217.jpg

Digikey carries these for about $13 CAD. They have different models for various size EL sheets.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Armitage on March 16, 2007, 03:46:20 AM
I'm chirping in a bit late but ...

The way a standard common non-switching (PC power supply) 12VDC or any other voltage power supply usually works is as follows -

The mains AC comes in and goes through a step-down transformer as was said earlier. The voltage stepped down to is usually a few volts higher than the intended rated output voltage of the power supply. So in the example of a 12VDC power supply you'll probably find the voltage is stepped down to around 16-18VAC.

The stepped-down voltage is then routed through a bridge rectifier which is 4 diodes used to convert the AC into DC.

Thereafter the voltage is usually routed through a fixed or variable voltage regulator which will regulate the output voltage to whatever the intended output voltage is.

Finally the voltage is usually run through capacitive filters which smooth out the ripples caused by the conversion from AC to DC and the components in the power supply making electrical noise.


The reason the step-down transformer's output is higher than the intended output voltage of the power supply is because when the load on the power supply increases, if the DC supply to the voltage regulator doesn't have any 'spare capacity', the output voltage will fall below what it should be.

The down side of feeding a higher voltage into the voltage regulator is that when it is regulated down to the rated output voltage the 'excess' voltage can only be dissipated in the form of heat. This is why voltage regulators are usually heat-sink mounted.

What I am getting at here is that if you use just a step-down transformer without any other associated circuitry, you may run in to problems with the voltage dropping when you place a load on the transformer.

As usual, just my 2c. :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 16, 2007, 06:40:43 AM
Thanks for all the inputs guys :)

Quote
In general mixing AC and DC like that in your pit will cause frustration and is potentially dangerious. I would reccomend staying DC for your backlights as painfull as that is, will save you in the long run.

Maestro, the EL sheets are Ac, so unless I want to forget using them and using leds instead, there is no way I can avoid mixing the twos.
I'm concerned as well mixing AC and DC in the pit. I should be fine though if I clearly separarte the circuits using colours codes accordingly.

Jason and Nikolas,
I also thing the converting to DC then back to AC is not needed. Thanks for you input, I know what to look for now. The only stuff I still need to know is how much power is required to use only one 220V/12V transformer (AC) to power most of the panels if not all...
I need to see the power the 180cm? sheet draws and extrapolate for a bigger surface I guess.


Mike,
The supplier told me they were laser cutable as well - I directly thought of you :)
For the longevity of the ELsheets, here's what I found:
(http://electroluminescence-inc.com/imagestechspec/chart.gif)
It will loose brightness with time for sure. But if the graph is correct, we have at least 3000 hours before it becomes a concern, I guess.
Quote
Well, just a sidenote to Olivier's post. The EL sheets laser cut wonderfully.

that's good - I'll be thinking of you when I cut mine with the damn cutter  :evil:


Spinkick,
Quote
IRC it is primarily the frequency, more than the voltage, that is lighting up the sheets.

Yep, that's what I read on the websites as well.
Now comes the real stupid question ... Would a electrical train transformer would do the job? I have a few marklin transformers lying around... might be usefull to do some tests...
Worth trying or not?

Thanks Leol, I'll have a look, but the one you linked ain't powerful enough.

Armitage,
Quote
What I am getting at here is that if you use just a step-down transformer without any other associated circuitry, you may run in to problems with the voltage dropping when you place a load on the transformer.

The sheet I have tested works fine from 6 to 12v. Granted the backlight changes in intensity but i'm willing to test it to see how large that voltage dropping is

Thanks for all the inputs guys, I don't know where it will lead but I think the time we may save from a backlight led solution is worth investigating.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on March 16, 2007, 11:58:31 AM
Hmmm, the diagrams tell all the necessary info, which isn't in your favor...

First, the EL sheet won't work with 12V, as you see it needs 80 - 160.

Second, it needs a higher frequency than the standard 50Hz. That's what the inverter is for, and that's why it makes the "high pitch squeal" SpinKick talcked about.

So, looks like you're stuck with inverters.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 16, 2007, 12:24:55 PM
Charos, that's another brand of El sheets working straight from 110v in the US, not the same as I have here. Mine do work with 12v - as I tested them already (see pix above)

The image was just for the aging luminance reference
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on March 16, 2007, 01:06:53 PM
Aaah, ok, I didn't understand that. So, you tested with 12VAC?

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 16, 2007, 01:14:10 PM
So far, I tested with a power supply 12v, and the small inverter coverting the 12vDc to 12vAc as pictured above
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: maestro209 on March 16, 2007, 05:56:51 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Thanks for all the inputs guys :)

Quote
In general mixing AC and DC like that in your pit will cause frustration and is potentially dangerious. I would reccomend staying DC for your backlights as painfull as that is, will save you in the long run.

Maestro, the EL sheets are Ac, so unless I want to forget using them and using leds instead, there is no way I can avoid mixing the twos.
I'm concerned as well mixing AC and DC in the pit. I should be fine though if I clearly separarte the circuits using colours codes accordingly.


Understood! (thumbs up)

I couldn't rightly give advice on a topic that has a high danger factor. I try to be as safety conscious as possible. When referring people to a given piece of advice esp. when the topic is electricity safety has to be paramount. It is easy to become confused (mostly on my end) and give/receive incorrect/misleading information, no matter how unintentional. I would rather you have the AC/DC complexity in a safe configuration over bad advice and a burned down house or worse.

>M
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Mike Powell on March 17, 2007, 12:39:00 PM
Maestro has a very good point. Safety is a big issue.

An EL sheet is constructed with an opaque metallic rear sheet that acts as one electrode, an insulating layer containing the luminescing material, and a top electrode made of a transparent, somewhat resistive material (tin oxide?) and an embedded opaque metallic grid. When the sheet is trimmed, the cut edge exposes both electrodes separated only by the central layer which has been deformed by cutting. The two electrodes may short together or contact mounting or switch hardware. When powered by an inverter this doesn't cause much of a problem, other than the fact that the inverter may roll over dead. When powered directly from house AC power, worse case is something else rolls over dead.

The EL products I'm aware of run from 80 to 250+ volts AC over a wide range of frequencies. Depending on the blend of luminescing materials, there can be a slight color shift in the light  as the voltage and frequency are changed. These EL products will function from house AC power, but I would take a few steps for safety.

Seal the edges of the cut EL sheet so contact with the electrodes is not possible.

Use an isolation transformer. This prevents contact between the EL power wiring and a grounded object becoming an exciting event.

Put a resistor in series with each EL sheet to limit short circuit current. A few hundred ohms should do.

Fuses are good.



Another option:

Those little power inverters intended for use in your car may offer an alternative to multiple EL inverters. They put out more power than the EL inverter, but still provide isolation from the house AC power. If you've already got a large 12 volt DC supply for other parts of your 'pit, it might be something to experiment with.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on March 17, 2007, 08:21:50 PM
Thanks Mike


I just hooked up the LG sheet I laser cut. I hooked it up to the inverter they sent, 12v DC in from a car battery booster. I did get bit while messing with it, let me tell you, it was NOT pleasant! So be carefull with those inverters. The sheet lit up great along with the LG panel. I will post pics. Sorry Olivier, wasn't wanting to hijack your thread. We should probably split this off to it's own topic.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/kabar03/DSCF6660.jpg)

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/kabar03/DSCF6666.jpg)


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/kabar03/DSCF6651.jpg)



Quote from: "Mike Powell"
Maestro has a very good point. Safety is a big issue.

An EL sheet is constructed with an opaque metallic rear sheet that acts as one electrode, an insulating layer containing the luminescing material, and a top electrode made of a transparent, somewhat resistive material (tin oxide?) and an embedded opaque metallic grid. When the sheet is trimmed, the cut edge exposes both electrodes separated only by the central layer which has been deformed by cutting. The two electrodes may short together or contact mounting or switch hardware. When powered by an inverter this doesn't cause much of a problem, other than the fact that the inverter may roll over dead. When powered directly from house AC power, worse case is something else rolls over dead.

The EL products I'm aware of run from 80 to 250+ volts AC over a wide range of frequencies. Depending on the blend of luminescing materials, there can be a slight color shift in the light  as the voltage and frequency are changed. These EL products will function from house AC power, but I would take a few steps for safety.

Seal the edges of the cut EL sheet so contact with the electrodes is not possible.

Use an isolation transformer. This prevents contact between the EL power wiring and a grounded object becoming an exciting event.

Put a resistor in series with each EL sheet to limit short circuit current. A few hundred ohms should do.

Fuses are good.



Another option:

Those little power inverters intended for use in your car may offer an alternative to multiple EL inverters. They put out more power than the EL inverter, but still provide isolation from the house AC power. If you've already got a large 12 volt DC supply for other parts of your 'pit, it might be something to experiment with.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 18, 2007, 09:41:23 AM
hey Mike, with images like that, you can pollute my thread anytime :)


Guys, are you telling me 12VAC is THAT dangerous... it's 12V.
I'm not dicussing having 110 or 220v AC in the pit, that's out of the question.

I'm debating using 12V DC power supply then a DC/AC inverter that go to the ELsheet, remaining 12v
or
Converting the 220vAv from the wall (before entering the pit) to 12vAC and power the ELsheet

In any way,  those of us using this very ELsheets type will have 12vAc in the pit. You may decrease the lenght of AC by converting part of it to DC with a power supply, but you will end up with 12vAC near the EL sheet.

So is 12vAc that dangerous?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Cannon on March 18, 2007, 10:54:40 AM
Quote from: "Kabar03"
Thanks Mike


I just hooked up the LG sheet I laser cut. I hooked it up to the inverter they sent, 12v DC in from a car battery booster. I did get bit while messing with it, let me tell you, it was NOT pleasant! So be carefull with those inverters. The sheet lit up great along with the LG panel. I will post pics. Sorry Olivier, wasn't wanting to hijack your thread. We should probably split this off to it's own topic.



How much does a sheet this size cost?  How about a very estimated cost for the left and right console? 12v dc would be fine, start messing with high volt ac- almost the same as a real plane!! My citation jet runs 115v ac for high current stuff such as windshield heat !!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on March 18, 2007, 11:03:54 AM
my source was 13 bucks a sheet shipped. Enough for one panel each, 2 smaller panels from one sheet. Not cheap.That's without the inverter to run them.As Olivier said, the offset of fiddling with LED, wiring them, even lighting....
Quote from: "Cannon"
Quote from: "Kabar03"


how much does a sheet this size cost?  How about a very estimated cost for the left and right console? 12v dc would be fine, start messing with high volt ac- almost the same as a real plane!! My citation jet runs 115v ac for high current stuff such as windshield heat !!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Cannon on March 18, 2007, 01:17:58 PM
I think it will be worth it!! That's a good deal for 13 bucks in my opinion!  I know your busy Mike, but it would be a nice thing to offer with the panels!!
Also, can you control the brightness with a switch?  I'm already saving for the whole set, so can I plan for those too?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on March 18, 2007, 01:39:57 PM
It's not voltage that's dangerous, it's the ability to pass current through your body that's lethal.  Static electricty on your body can reach potentials of several thousand volts, yet not one dies when this is discharged because you are the high potential discharging to ground.  However, if you are the ground and the potential is some other source, then current will pass through your body.  How much depends on a number of factors.

110 and 220 are completely safe in a pit as long as you have GROUNDED everything properly, use proper terminating, proper gauge wire for the current you are drawing etc.  If you have done this and don't go sticking metal objects into hot circuits, there's no danger at all.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 18, 2007, 01:51:52 PM
As Mike Powell suggested above, the El sheets edges needs to be taped to avoid any chance of short circuit, that's clearly explained in the EL sheet how to use.

I am not afraid of my grounding, that should be okay. I think the most dangerous point would be those cut edges where if not isolated properly, A metal switch might get in contact with both side of the sheet and thus harm the user and the other cockpit system.
In the case of the panel, a screw securing the backplate to the lightplate might also create problem

So i think the cut of the sheet needs to be carefully planned and isolated on the edges to avoid any future problem.

Now i just need to get to work ond power them properly
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on March 18, 2007, 02:13:01 PM
Using a laminator on them would isolate the edges, as the instructions suggest. This will create a second step of cutting the lamination for the holes again. By knife or in my case laser again, no biggie really. They will need to be properly designed for proper panel fit, again no problem, I overlay may panel files and create a EL layer. I still think they are great for lighting, but
you can see the process soon adds up to the cost of the panel itself, the LG panel will require 2 sheets for proper even light. I used one in the above pics and the lower lettering is dark. Wiring is easy enough, 2 leads. I will try some different powering of them to see if it can be simplified. At this point I know I will be using these in my pit, others will have to decide if the added expense
is worth it. I will offer these lasercut at some point. I'll be doing the files soon as I clear my plate.

Olivier, we may as well discuss this here, after a bit of time I will split it off into its own topic to clear your thread, if thats OK?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 18, 2007, 04:11:16 PM
Mike,

Whatever's good for you will suit me ...

I know I'll use them also in my pit  :o  we just have to find the safest way to use and power them :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on March 18, 2007, 04:37:09 PM
So what are really the pro and cons of this procedure?

So far I am guessing the EL sheets are WAY more expensive then using LEDs.  I bought backpanel LEDs for dirt cheap.  But I still think when you add up the amount of LEDs needed for each panel, it should still come out cheaper than enough EL sheets per panel.

Is it less work??  Hmmm at first I liked this idea as it seemed like less work, which may be worth the extra expense, however it appears as though this may even be more work??

So I guess the only thing left to cosider is the lighting??  Does the EL sheets offer more effecient back lighting then using the LEDs?  I don't know I have not tried yet?

So anyone??  What are the real pros and cons of these EL sheets?  Should we go this route, or stick with LEDs?

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 18, 2007, 05:02:54 PM
I'll go EL iso ded

1. It's a lot of work because we progress in the dark for the moment and we don't have a decent common power solution for the moment.
But once that is set safely, it will be only a matter to connect 2 wires from panel to panel (probably with a connector to be able to remove only one panel)
Probably one set on the LEFT console and a second set on the RIGHT console and a final set for the center panel= total 6 wires and one switch to turn all backlight ON

Pros
- The light diffusion is way better than led, no question about that one, I tried both and the led don't give a constant light on the label, the sheet gives a pretty constant light on all the panel
- no drilling in the panel and in the backplate for the leds
- minor soldering required
- Sheet can be cut to shape, with the panel PDF realsize, this is very easy. The holes for the switches can be cut out as well.
- A rheostat may be used to vary the frequency and change the brightness
- El sheets are available in white and green, so white backlight becomes possible (unlike leds where Vishay leds aren't available in white - regular leds have to be used and their light cone is very narrow

Cons
- Power problem (the sheets are 12vAC)
- Sheets needs to be cut but with the PDF of the panel, it's easy - even with a cutter - easier lasercut :)
- Sheets needs to be laminated to isolate the edges and then recut ...
- the AC transformer may be slighly noisy (as a electric train transformer)
- Span life is around 3000 hours, after that the sheet will loose brightness


I still think it's way less work than soldering 250 backlight leds per cockpit side.
For me the only real point that drove my decision is the perfect diffusion of the light with Mike's panel. it looks great and it's just perfect
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on March 18, 2007, 05:17:24 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
I still think it's way less work than soldering 250 backlight leds per cockpit side.

I agree with you on that one ;)

Quote from: "Red Dog"

For me the only real point that drove my decision is the perfect diffusion of the light with Mike's panel. it looks great and it's just perfect

But.... is it life-like ? Aren't the real panels point-lit (with bulbs or LEDs ?)

EDIT: What I meant to say; aren't the real panels point-lit and thus unevenly lit ? Unlike EL panels which are evenly lit ?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on March 18, 2007, 05:18:49 PM
CAT 5 are bulbs, CAT 7 are LEDs.

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on March 18, 2007, 06:31:31 PM
Red Dog,

Those are some good and convincing points.

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: jethomasjr on March 18, 2007, 11:27:04 PM
Quote from: "Marvin"
So what are really the pro and cons of this procedure?


So anyone??  What are the real pros and cons of these EL sheets?  Should we go this route, or stick with LEDs?

Jody


Pro's and Con's

Pro: It would really make lighting up the panels so much easier.

Con's: Yes, it does get expensive. I have replaced many panels in aircraft because the EL lighting fizzled out. There has been several instances when I took the broke part off and put on the new one and it wouldn't work. In real world aviation the cost to send them off to get fixed is in the $3-8K range. The EL panel on the start switch panel in a Learjet 30 series which the dimensions are 5 inches by 8 inches cost $4K. I know I am in the wrong business just knowing what the cost is for aircraft parts.

Pro: EL panels just snaps into the plug socket (small round gold socket) and then you reattach with the hardware holding the EL panel onto instrument panel or wherever it may be located in the cockpit. It's basically plug and play and you don't have all the wires hanging around like you would with all LED lights. If you have an original panel look at the back of one and you'll see what I am talking about.

Pro: It would save a lot of headaches and time, but then you have to look at the cost and be willing to spend the money.

I sit and read through all the threads reading the daily progress from everybody. I find it amazing as to how some of you come up with ideas to make things work. Then I go to work and build airplanes and think to myself how or what can I do to help out. In real world aviation I know how and what to do and know where to go for the things I need to do my job. Got to love R&D. You guys are great! And what really amazes me is and I say this because I don't know who has or don't have any aviation background. I know a couple on here don't and they really impress the hell out of me. Keep up the good work guys. Finally got two CNC machines going at work. Now it's finding time. Oh yeah I forgot, I am now back on day shift and have Saturdays and Sundays off, but will work most Saturdays. Got to maintain at least 72 hours a week ya know.


Jack
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: thebeev on March 20, 2007, 08:00:56 PM
Con's: Yes it can get expensive, but...

Pro's:  In the long run, once your pit comes together more and more(I know there is never an end in sight) There will be less stuff to buy for the pit, so when you have to get those replaced it won't be so bad.  Plus that part of the pit, not including the MFD solution is probably the most important part.  So I would be more then willing to spend extra on that section.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on March 21, 2007, 03:47:11 AM
Quote from: "thebeev"
Plus that part of the pit, not including the MFD solution is probably the most important part.  So I would be more then willing to spend extra on that section.

Ok, here's my opinion on that topic (maybe we should move this part to an extra thread, Mike?). I don't think, that backlighting the panels is in ANY way important. Yes, my panels are ready for it, and "yes", I think about backlighting them. But "NO", there won't be any backlighted panels (maybe one prototype for testing, if time permits), until everything else in the pit, what _REALLY_ is important for flying, is working.

Now, that my pit is an 50% flying stage, I really miss the DED, caution panel and working instruments in my pit while flying. Even if it's pitch black dark in the room, the flood light on the consoles is more then enough to see the switches (not that I'd need it, of course every simbuilder nows the places by heart ;-) ). I never thought "oh, $hit, my panels aren't backlit!"... more often I though "oh, $hit, now I have to switch views just to see what's wrong" or "argh, where's the DED".

My next purchase will be a TrackIR in the next monthes. Once I get it, I want to look to my REAL warning lights and DED, not the ones in the sim...

Just my 2 ?c...

greetings
michi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 21, 2007, 05:13:58 AM
I tend to agree with Michi here, backlight really is not important and it must be the last phase of cockpit development.
But let's face it - it's so good to look at. And after all, the cockpit is not only a tool, it's also an object we cherish and find nice.

Everytime I go in my pitroom (which is still the bedroom, unfortunately) I look at the pit and I find it beautiful.
On the other hand, everytime my wife enters the bedroom she finds it ugly, massive and totally out of line  :?

In my case, the pit is 85% complete (DED, PFD, RWR, all F4 switches, speedbrake, chaff and flares counter, all pit lights, floodlights,...) as I wanted it to be. The 15% remaining are the lack of working instrument solution and the lack of backlight.

I'm working on the instruments, but finding a decent TFT to go into the center console is not easy. In the meantime, I use a workaround with a second screen and the excellent F4gauges.

So the last phase of the cockpit will be to enable the backlight.

Michi, the TIR is a blast, I just recently started using it and although I do turn it off for cockpit ramp starts, in game it's terrific. I don't know how I could fly without it for so long.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on March 21, 2007, 07:52:21 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
But let's face it - it's so good to look at. And after all, the cockpit is not only a tool, it's also an object we cherish and find nice.

FULL ACK!
Just before the first time when I had working switches and some lights working, I would have gone the direct route to backlighting the new panels.
But once I did some flying with the working things, I realized, what _REALLY_ is missing, so I'm going to do these things first.

Quote
So the last phase of the cockpit will be to enable the backlight.

Jup, mine, too...

Quote
Michi, the TIR is a blast, I just recently started using it and although I do turn it off for cockpit ramp starts, in game it's terrific. I don't know how I could fly without it for so long.

Yeah, I only heard good things about it. After I tried to do some missile defending, I knew that I HAD to get one...

greetings
michi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on March 21, 2007, 07:53:31 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Michi, the TIR is a blast, I just recently started using it and although I do turn it off for cockpit ramp starts...

Why's that?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 21, 2007, 09:19:52 AM
Well, obviously, I don't need the F4cockpit view to follow my head since I don't pan the F4 cockpit.  :D
I just flip my real switches and don't even look at the F4cockpit which usually stays in the down view so I can keep a look on the MFD (only part not implemented in the pit)

Once ready to taxi, I switch on my position lights to steady (to tell the flight lead I'm ready) and switch to 3D pit and activates the TIR
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on March 21, 2007, 10:01:38 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Well, obviously, I don't need the F4cockpit view to follow my head since I don't pan the F4 cockpit.  :D
I just flip my real switches and don't even look at the F4cockpit which usually stays in the down view so I can keep a look on the MFD (only part not implemented in the pit)

Once ready to taxi, I switch on my position lights to steady (to tell the flight lead I'm ready) and switch to 3D pit and activates the TIR


Ahh, ok... so it's the same procedure like I'm doing :-)
I thought, it's some sort of voodoo to prevent some bug ;-).
I think I'd prefer TIR in 3D-pit only, too.

greetings
michi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on March 21, 2007, 11:30:03 AM
Red Dog,

That is funny...  Cause while I was in Afghanistan, I spent a lot of time watching the Dutch Viper Det, and they were the opposite..  During startup they had their wing/fuselage lights on steady, and once the chalks were removed they went to flash..  I guess it is different for every unit, however they decide to write their SOPs.

Jody

Quote from: "Red Dog"
Well, obviously, I don't need the F4cockpit view to follow my head since I don't pan the F4 cockpit.  :D
I just flip my real switches and don't even look at the F4cockpit which usually stays in the down view so I can keep a look on the MFD (only part not implemented in the pit)

Once ready to taxi, I switch on my position lights to steady (to tell the flight lead I'm ready) and switch to 3D pit and activates the TIR
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 21, 2007, 12:56:32 PM
yep, there's also a rule that says flashing lights on the ground = pilot in trouble :)

it's just the SOP we apply in our squad.  8)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Marvin on March 21, 2007, 05:22:46 PM
RD,

Really??  I like the one better where the pilot starts freaking out and jettisons his canopy..  That is usually a better sign he is in trouble.  :lol:

Jody
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Boomer on March 21, 2007, 05:39:31 PM
Jody, you crack me up! :lol:

B
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on March 21, 2007, 05:49:49 PM
Hi Jody,

You're right about the dutch viper, when the pilot puts the lights to flash on the ground, it means "the pilot is in full control" and he is going to move, so no crewmember should be near the viper.

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 26, 2007, 01:24:36 PM
Just got a new part, one I have been looking for a long time:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/399_coil3pos.jpg)

looks like it's a coil switch, but for once it's a 3 positions, sounds perfectly suitable for the Ap switch on the MISC panel  :)
Very good deal getting that rare item  :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on March 26, 2007, 01:34:03 PM
Hmmm, you should change your name to Lucky Dog...

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String2054 on March 26, 2007, 08:40:54 PM
Good Switch... I am using the same one for my AP. You are going to love it. Look forward to seeing it installed :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: bnepethomas on April 05, 2007, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Just got a new part, one I have been looking for a long time:

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/399_coil3pos.jpg)

looks like it's a coil switch, but for once it's a 3 positions, sounds perfectly suitable for the Ap switch on the MISC panel  :)
Very good deal getting that rare item  :wink:

So which EBay seller should we be watching or was it a bluebird?

cheers

Peter
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: kdittyr on April 05, 2007, 11:56:17 AM
Hey, Red Dog, around how much did this run you (if you don't mind my asking)?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 10, 2007, 05:56:19 AM
Sorry for the late answer guys, i was enjoying the Easter break on the seaside with the family  :D

Peter, you'll have to explain what a bluebird is :) I know the blue montains down there to have had a wonderful walk in there during my honeymoon but haven't see a bluebird :)

I feel it was pure luck. I saw two positions magnetic switches go between 35 - 70 us$ on ebay and got the three position from Girtkev at 25$
It was a buy it know, so I jumped on it the moment i saw it
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 16, 2007, 02:28:40 PM
Hello guys,

Who can guess what took me the best part of the week-end to update in my cockpit?

OK, here's the picture to help



(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/405_DED.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on April 16, 2007, 02:33:51 PM
OMG  :shock:

A 32" flat screen ????

EDIT : And one of Dunk's DED boxes :D

What did i have won  :?:   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 17, 2007, 05:59:34 AM
It's indeed a DED box from Dunk converted to use with the UCC LCD which we all know is too large because of the PCB.

It's been a project ever since we started the UCC, but none of us really found the time to go further than prototype. When I saw Dunk ded boxes, I just knew it had potential and that was the spark that got me going.

Since the UCC team was aware of that problem since the beginning, a mirror option was created for the DED display so the text is correctly set when the DED LCD is reflected through a 45? mirror.

Work started with cutting the top of the ded box to place the LCD face down. Then a small piece of 4mm mirror was placed at 45? (couldn't find mirror smaller than 4mm thick)
Placing the mirror correctly required careful planning and precision work.
The bottom edge of the mirror was sanded at 45? so it rests flat on the bottom of the plastic box. The top edge of the mirror was left untouched and placed just against the LCD screen.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/407_DED.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/408_DED.jpg)
Here is the initial testing on the top of the DED box with a mirror at 45?. The UCC PCB is still an old proto and will be replaced. The right picture shows the result of the reflected displays with the DED box closed
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/409_DED.jpg)

The problem of using a mirror and placing it at 45? is that the top and bottom edge will not reflect light normally because of the thickness of the mirror. To overcome the bottom edge problem, I made a 1mm trench on the lower part of the ded box so the non reflective part are left unseen.
the consequence is that the 5th line of the DED text is very low on the reflected light.
The ideal solution - as Biohazard found early in the development was to replace the 45? mirror with a prism that would prevent the reflections problems. But I have no access to such a prism.

The older proto PCB was replaced with a production PCB which is much smaller and fit perfectly in the back of the DED box. It's normally supposed to be soldered directly on the LCD PCB but I elected to use wires instead. The hardest thing to do was to remove the line connector on the LCD.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/410_DED.jpg)
I also place black tape on the LCD that remains green  and spoil the inverted text effect of the UCC DED.

Here's an image of the new assembly test. The pot will go on the outside of the DED box so it can be reached easily to set the LCD brightness.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/411_DED.jpg)

Next the ded box was painted black inside and outside and all the parts were put together. Note the location of the brightness pot:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/412_DED.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/413_DED.jpg)

Closed box show the added width from the glareshield that i will have to use because of the PCB. I placed a plastic sheet on top of it to protect the PCB from the metallic glareshield, used 4mm plastic spacers to screw the DED box under the right glareshield.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/414_DED.jpg)
I just need to stick the yellow sticker to place there and I'll be all set.
I will also place a 6mm high plastic strip above the DED to fill the gap between the top of the DED box and the glareshield frame.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/415_DED.jpg)
Here's a very low quality image (couldn't use the tripod) of the final result of the DED that is almost as small as the original one.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on April 17, 2007, 07:41:51 AM
Wow Oliver, that's an outstanding idea!  I've got one of Dunk's DED boxes too.  I'm going to  see if I can work out something like your extrememly innovative design.

:beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Skorp on April 17, 2007, 09:01:04 AM
Wooow, nice solution!!!!

 :beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: bnepethomas on April 17, 2007, 09:04:47 AM
Awesome work!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on April 17, 2007, 10:25:51 AM
RD, your work never ceases to amaze me.  Really nice work Oliver, really nice.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on April 17, 2007, 11:11:54 AM
Nice work and a great idea !!!

A suggestion: most flatbed scanners have frontside mirrors - these are usually about 18mm wide, but are cut very precisely and straight and two side by side should be no problem (hardly noticable).
I also understand that older fotocopiers have bigger frontside mirrors. Frontside mirrors have the reflective layer on the front of the glass, not the back so you don't have the 'second reflection' from the glass. They also render a higher light outcome (does anyone understand this ?) as there's no glass layer to absorb part of the light.

Be very carefull though with frontside mirrors - the reflective surface scratches with absolutely zero effort !
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on April 17, 2007, 11:55:59 AM
First surface mirrors (http://www.viperpit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1608) are the first thing I thought when I read that, too. Added bonus, they are thinner.

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on April 18, 2007, 08:35:31 AM
Quote from: "AiRdAncE"
Nice work and a great idea !!!

A suggestion: most flatbed scanners have frontside mirrors - these are usually about 18mm wide, but are cut very precisely and straight and two side by side should be no problem (hardly noticable).
I also understand that older fotocopiers have bigger frontside mirrors. Frontside mirrors have the reflective layer on the front of the glass, not the back so you don't have the 'second reflection' from the glass. They also render a higher light outcome (does anyone understand this ?) as there's no glass layer to absorb part of the light.

Be very carefull though with frontside mirrors - the reflective surface scratches with absolutely zero effort !


Excellent modification of Oliver's beautiful design Kim!  :beer:

@Nikolas:  Thanks for the link.  

I plan to explore this method shortly as it's time to get my DED in the pit and off the 7" monitor sitting just to my left.

Man, the folks here never cease to amaze me!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on April 18, 2007, 10:21:20 AM
Quote from: "Flareless"

Excellent modification of Oliver's beautiful design Kim!  :beer:


Thanks Rich ;)

You know, it's not only the problem of figuring out where to find parts ? la cheap. It's mostly the problem of actually finding the parts. Ever tried to find an old photocopier for free ? LOL :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 19, 2007, 03:51:45 AM
AD,

I have a few old photocopiers waiting to be piched up as well as some scanners. No idea where to go digging for those frontside mirrors though ... But i'll sure have a llok before they are sent to the scrap yard.

But then, they certainly need to be cut to shape ....
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on April 19, 2007, 04:08:33 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
I have a few old photocopiers waiting to be piched up as well as some scanners.


*sigh*

Some people just have it all.... :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 29, 2007, 07:56:48 AM
For a long time I have been trying to buy a canopy spider to add in my cockpit but I never came close to find a decent one.
Luckily, A well known friend lent me his real spider so I can try to reproduce it.

It's a hell of a part to make. It's very complicated and i spent a lot of time planning the part making.

I won't do it in metal because I don't have the suitable tools. Instead I'll use hard PVC in sheets of 5mm. I can glue them together very strongly and mill them with the proxxon (dremel type) after glued.

I have been busy already for 2 days on this and I expect another couple of days before it's done.

First step was to cut a paper template, then Cut the main part out of PVC with the general shape of the spider.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/417_spider.jpg)

Then 2.5mm of the sheet were milled on specific area
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/418_spider.jpg)

Two sheets glued together then milled to shape with my very limited mill knowledge to make the vertical guard
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/419_spider.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/420_spider.jpg)

Then preparation of the thicker area of the spider with the round hole for the pivot point on the left wall...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/421_spider.jpg)

All this is pretty rough without any sanding, it won't be perfect but I aim to come close to something "acceptable"
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: white-eagle on April 29, 2007, 12:06:12 PM
That guy really is unbelievable....

Nice work again Olivier.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on April 29, 2007, 12:48:22 PM
Ooh yes, indeed!  :shock:

Nice work... and efforts, for that matter!

Also... I?m certain that he has all those dims`n?angles down on millimeter-paper to give away in here  :wink:

Cheers,

"GUN"
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: kdittyr on April 29, 2007, 12:51:59 PM
What are you using to bond the PVC?  I am pretty much done with the layers of my ICP (my ICP is not the best quality, but I wanted to get one that I can use until I build a better one) and need to bond them together and wondered what everyone else uses...  I am using plexi, but I believe that is the same, right?

Great job, by the way.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on April 29, 2007, 01:19:14 PM
Holy cow!!

Great work, RedDog!

greetings
michi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on April 29, 2007, 02:19:42 PM
Nice Olivier!!

for gluing acrylic, Weldon#4 or Tapp Plastics have a cheaper House brand.
Quote from: "kdittyr"
What are you using to bond the PVC?  I am pretty much done with the layers of my ICP (my ICP is not the best quality, but I wanted to get one that I can use until I build a better one) and need to bond them together and wondered what everyone else uses...  I am using plexi, but I believe that is the same, right?

Great job, by the way.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 01, 2007, 12:45:41 PM
I use first a product (Griffon cleaner) to clean the PVC (smells like something you don't want to leave in the sun)
The I use the hard PVC glue from the R force range(rectaVit)

I'm getting there but it's not over yet, even with two more days working on it.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/422_spider.jpg)
Here are the subassemblies so far

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/423_spider.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/424_spider.jpg)

I am not sure I will make the protrudring pin hole there, it sort of conflicts with my sidewall internals and I may not use the same way of handling the spider as the real thing. matter of fact, I have no idea how I will connect it in the pit.

At first I wanted to have something that would remain closed because I didn't think the reproduction would be strong enough to behave like the real one, bit it just might afterall... so I might take it a step further
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 01, 2007, 12:58:00 PM
Very Cool!!!

what exactly would be a step further?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 01, 2007, 01:13:08 PM
Having the canopy switch inside the left sidewall and having the canopy spider moveable, rotating up like the real deal so I can access the canopy MOM switch  :P
Problem is I don't know how the spider is supposed to remain up. I guess there's a sort of rod retaining the spider in the up position. That rod should go on the part I still miss (guessing too)
Too much guessing at this time to plan something definite
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 01, 2007, 01:20:56 PM
I see, I thought maybe you had a canopy sill in the future.  :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 01, 2007, 01:23:27 PM
Well I have one, but I will probably never install it  8)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: kdittyr on May 01, 2007, 01:36:14 PM
Quote from: "Kabar03"
for gluing acrylic, Weldon#4 or Tapp Plastics have a cheaper House brand.


Great, thanks!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on May 01, 2007, 07:11:21 PM
Once again... WOW!!!

Your pit still continue to amaze me!

Keep it up Olivier!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 04, 2007, 12:49:41 PM
The spider is almost done, Probably painting this week end....

In the meantime, I was wondering if any of you had the dims of the part that held the spider on the side wall
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/425_spider.jpg)

Thanks
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 06, 2007, 10:10:59 AM
Looks like my spider got some baby this week-end

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/426_spider.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/427_spider.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/428_spider.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/429_spider.jpg)

6 days of work in total  :shock:
2 layers of Mistersurfacer (primer) - one layout of white - two layout of yellow - weathering in burnt iron and aluminium then a flat coat
I'm quite satisfied with the result  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on May 06, 2007, 10:26:14 AM
This guy is crazy  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:  :shock:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on May 06, 2007, 10:41:18 AM
Dude,

As long as you're not trying to sell your replica's of real parts on ebay as being the real thing (and asking big bucks), I think you're a genius !!

:D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Jarrod66 on May 06, 2007, 11:14:24 AM
Wow RedDog,

You have really outdone yourself...I can't tell the difference.

Great work...

Jarrod
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 06, 2007, 11:17:32 AM
Super Craftsman! Hard to tell the difference!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 06, 2007, 12:06:47 PM
Thanks guys
Quote from: "AiRdAncE"
Dude,
As long as you're not trying to sell your replica's of real parts on ebay as being the real thing (and asking big bucks), I think you're a genius !!
:D

You know, in many respect I think a replica might come more expensive than a hard to find real part.
Wasn't it you that rated the work at 14 euros an hour ...  :wink:
6 days work at 4 hours a day (week end and I do other stuff) is 24 hours. That would be 336 euros for the part and that's not even counting the materials needed...
Luckily most of the geek out here don't count the man hour required to do their project.
 :P
But anyway - I obviously won't offer any replica on ebay .. but I'm far from a genius. Any one with a lot of patience can achieve this, that's nothing extraordinary.  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on May 06, 2007, 01:34:14 PM
Too humble!!!
You're spider rocks!

Amazing work.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: idekkers on May 06, 2007, 03:17:26 PM
where ?  what ? how ??????
that's absolutely amazing - i had to look for a long time to find which is the replica.

just amazing

Ido
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Boomer on May 06, 2007, 06:46:05 PM
OK, you fooled me.  I had to re-read the post.  I thought ok, he has two used spiders. :?   Then I realized you made one of those!!!  VERY, VERY nice work RD! :partyman:  :drinkers:  :beer:  :rock:

Boomer
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on May 06, 2007, 11:10:52 PM
Quote from: "Boomer"
OK, you fooled me.  I had to re-read the post.  I thought ok, he has two used spiders. :?   Then I realized you made one of those!!!  VERY, VERY nice work RD! :partyman:  :drinkers:  :beer:  :rock:

Boomer


Same here...HOLY crap Oliver.

Jay
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Iceman_JD on May 07, 2007, 12:16:01 AM
Which one is the real one!  How about a hint.   :?:
Great job.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: thebeev on May 07, 2007, 01:56:24 AM
Damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :shock: Thats all I have to say  :beer:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on May 07, 2007, 02:54:54 AM
i am speechless Olivier, just incredible detail!!! :shock:

congrats!

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 07, 2007, 04:43:31 AM
Thanks guys, It is something I really like to do, it really is like doing an aircraft model and the part really was a challenge.

Quote from: Iceman_JD
Which one is the real one!  How about a hint.   :?:
Great job.
Easy, on the repro, I had to place two screws that aren't on the real one for solidity reasons.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/434_spider.jpg)

Now I need to make the pivot point to install it in the cockpit, when that geek's feeling is over, I will be able to stop looking at it and start something else  :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on May 07, 2007, 12:24:48 PM
Well... that is what I call EXCELLENT modelling!   :twisted:

Same attention to detail as your 1/48 model I?ve seen inhere. Just love that you did that wear/tear/weathering on it...

... I don?t mind your username here at all, but You could - with honour - change it for a few weeks to........ "Spiderman"   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

"GUN"
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on May 07, 2007, 01:31:12 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"

Easy, on the repro, I had to place two screws that aren't on the real one for solidity reasons.


Come on guys, the replica is the one with the two ugly holes in it, even a kid can tell them apart...  :axe:  :lol:

Great work Olivier. Say, you wouldn't mind taking some measurements, know, would you?

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 07, 2007, 02:15:43 PM
matter of fact, that's exactly what i am doing tonight, Nikolas :)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on May 07, 2007, 02:19:55 PM
Right on!  Next question is, anyone out there going to make copies for the rest of us? ;)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 07, 2007, 04:18:12 PM
Dims are here
http://www.viperpit.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=30707#30707
Title: Spider
Post by: Dunk on May 07, 2007, 11:58:29 PM
All I can say is SAWEEEEET.
I got the measurements but i realy doubt my willingnes to tackle that project, but if nobody pick it up for production then i will have to try to make one.

Red Dawg You are an artist.

BTW the way I spelled your name is a complement.
In my opinion the greatest Collage Footbal teem is the Georgia Bull Dawgs.
My apoligies to any of you who are not Georgia Fans. :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 14, 2007, 11:56:23 AM
Since i'm struggling with servo motors, SIOC and FAST to implement some gauges, I decided to take a break and redesign an AOA instrument face.

As you know the VVI is already a needle instrument in the MLU but the AOA remain a tape instrument. That will be too complicated for me to realize so I decided to step away from realism and create my own needle AOA instrument, mirrored from the VVI

Here's the draft:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/439_newAOA.jpg)

If you feel there's anything that could be improved, let me know :)

As for the VVI, the needle will be driven by a servo and the red square won't be visible unless the red led behing it comes ON when the instrument is flagged
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on May 14, 2007, 02:06:00 PM
Hey RD!
Looke really nice. I think i will go for that solution until i get an real AOA.

Keep posting
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 17, 2007, 05:12:03 AM
Here's my newest part :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/440_hgu.jpg)

I never really wanted to wear a helmet while simming but it's a nice addition to the pit  :D
I just need now to find a cheap O2mask and more importantly the 2 bayonet receivers that screws on the helmet cheeks and a leather vior cover I would customize - why niot with a Viperpit patch   :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Flareless on May 17, 2007, 09:51:27 AM
Actually, I find wearing the helmet isn't too bad at all.  First, your head doesn't rest on the hard seat back in between the grooves of the headrest.  Second, your head is tilted forward a few extra degrees bringing your line of sight a bit more horizontal.  Finally - you look extra cool and the chicks dig it (at least I keep telling myself that).
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 17, 2007, 01:19:44 PM
Nice, I just acquired a Helmet too, from Bubbi" in S.Korea. Nice one, 02 mask,
headsets installed and mic in the mask. The best thing about the helmet is the way the comms sound coming from it. i heard Jay using his on Teamspeak once and I was sold.

Olivier I would send Bubbi a PM and see if he will horse trade with you. GET THE MIC too! :lol:

He sent me a picture of his helmet collection and it was HUGE
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 17, 2007, 01:32:19 PM
If my wife ever sees me with wearing a helmet in my cockpit, I'm done  :shock:

I confess I'm already trying to wire it with computer headphones and mike as well as a gimmick to glue the TIR reflector spheres  :D
But I know that's not going yto happen

Mike, I'll be looking forward to that  8) Just don't tell my wife
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 17, 2007, 01:41:32 PM
Jay is making an interface board to connect the MIL mic to the PC, you will need the MIL mic to get he great comm sounds.

wish I had a recording of the great sound of his mic to post

BTW, I think wearing the helmet and flightsuit is much like going out with fat chicks and riding mopeds, it's all great until your friends see you  :lol:
or in our case, the "Boss" wife.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: maestro209 on May 17, 2007, 02:31:33 PM
It's been my experience that any aviation mic has sufficiently reduced bandwidth and "soft clipping" capable of reproducing those "great sounds" if you've got the mic converter/amp it's as simple as plug and play.

Or you could do it the old Deltahawks way.... Buy a CB radio and wire it up in such a way as to get the input/output through your sound card. That was always a "hoot." :lol:

>Maestro
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 17, 2007, 02:50:26 PM
Did you guys ever tried the IVC from inside Falcon for ingame comms?
I think it's already giving a pretty close "great sounds" as real radio coms - even with a standard computer headphones&mike?

We never use anything else and like it very much
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on May 17, 2007, 03:12:05 PM
Quote from: "Kabar03"
Nice, I just acquired a Helmet too, from Bubbi" in S.Korea.


Where do we find this Bubbi ? On ebay ?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 17, 2007, 03:15:52 PM
sorry, spelled Bubi

He is a member here. Check the member list or email me.

Ill delete these in a few Olivier
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 17, 2007, 03:30:42 PM
Hey Ad, i was first :)
Mike, don't send him anything before me, Ad is pissed with the switch guy, he might jump on me for the helmet stuff  :D  :shock:

Joking AD  :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on May 17, 2007, 04:01:33 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Hey Ad, i was first :)
Mike, don't send him anything before me, Ad is pissed with the switch guy, he might jump on me for the helmet stuff  :D  :shock:

Joking AD  :P


Sjeezzz doggy... then stay on top of your thread man, like I do. I already spoke to bubi and just bought his last helmet and oxy mask for just 150 bucks - mint condition... :P :P

{I only wish this were true... :( }
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 17, 2007, 04:06:16 PM
150$ ??
that must be one of those 1:8 reproduction then  :P
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on May 17, 2007, 04:29:15 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
150$ ??
that must be one of those 1:8 reproduction then  :P

Hehehe... can you spell "RIP OFF" ? LOL
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 20, 2007, 10:43:51 AM
Here's the trim panel story ...

Mike's panel arrived last week and I put aside the complicated programming of the AOA and VVi gauges servo to concentrate on the trim mechanics.

First, the internal lightplate was modified to accept the larger trim wheels I have, then the backplate wheels were also increase to 5cm lenght.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/441_trim.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/442_trim.jpg)
That way, the wheel is high enough above the panel to my liking.

Next came the small plate around the YAW trim knob made in plastic sheet and supporting the finger guards, here made with hard wires.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/443_trim.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/444_trim.jpg)

The trim wheels have been placed on L shaped plastic supports and I decided to use 2 regular pots to implement them. The three pots will be wired to Leo Bodnar ministick that handle all my extra analog inputs in the cockpit.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/445_trim.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/446_trim.jpg)

Next came to two R/C servoes. It's getting crowded already. I could have used smaller ones, but I bought those because they weren't expensive and wanted to use them in my opencockpit tests in case I messed something. The smaller servoes are more expensive and I wire them only when I'm sure I can't destroy them :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/448_trim.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/449_trim.jpg)
I decided to go direct from the servo to the needle, without using anykind of gear, whenever possible

Final step was to place the small homemade bezel and the needle made with plastic rod, glue the transparent windows provided by Mike (Brilliant idea Mike to offer two different thickness - well done.
And assemble the panel, ready for connecting.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/450_trim.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/451_trim_final.jpg)

Now I just have to tweak the programming and those two needles will be moving accordingly  :P

I had to sacrifice to TEST panel to place the trim Panel in my cockpit because of lack of place. I don't mind since most of the stuff from the TEST panel is not implemented in Falcon.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Killn on May 20, 2007, 10:51:29 AM
Sweet!!!  Get that man a frosty and a beer!  :beer:  Great job Olivier!!


Cheers,
Jason
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ~Guardian?~ on May 20, 2007, 11:12:48 AM
Just one word....... OUTSTANDING!!!
Rob
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on May 20, 2007, 11:35:33 AM
Nice work Olivier :)

What about these working gauges :) ?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 20, 2007, 12:56:41 PM
Yes, defiantly Frosty material there!!!

I also, have that file for the Yaw standoff plate made, I will do a batch of these soon and offer them for free to the guys that bought the Man Trim panel.

 I also found that folks will need to mod the back of the panel as Olivier did to accomodat the trim wheels. A little work with dremel and a debur bit will do the trick.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 20, 2007, 02:26:57 PM
yep, that was pretty easy to do Mike, no worries.

I think that the backplate might need some modifications though.
Enlarge the trim wheels holes
And also, the semi round holes for the trim gauges shouldn't be there. The backplate is normally the support for the gauge and the dots are directly embossed on the backplate. The needles rotates above all that and actually all we need is a tiny hole for the needle axe to go through.

Now it might be easier for other application to have those semi circular holes as you implemented them, so I don't know for the others.

And finally, there's a screw hole missing on the backplate :) the one just above the YAW knob. There's a screw hole in the lightplate but not in the backplate.

All those minor details and I'm very happy to have such a great Trim panel thanks to you Mike  :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 20, 2007, 10:40:16 PM
Noted, thanks
Quote from: "Red Dog"
yep, that was pretty easy to do Mike, no worries.

I think that the backplate might need some modifications though.
Enlarge the trim wheels holes
And also, the semi round holes for the trim gauges shouldn't be there. The backplate is normally the support for the gauge and the dots are directly embossed on the backplate. The needles rotates above all that and actually all we need is a tiny hole for the needle axe to go through.

Now it might be easier for other application to have those semi circular holes as you implemented them, so I don't know for the others.

And finally, there's a screw hole missing on the backplate :) the one just above the YAW knob. There's a screw hole in the lightplate but not in the backplate.

All those minor details and I'm very happy to have such a great Trim panel thanks to you Mike  :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Jarrod66 on May 20, 2007, 11:33:22 PM
Great work RedDog,

Your stuff is just awesome.  I look forward to seeing more...

Jarrod
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on May 21, 2007, 12:46:01 AM
Quote from: "Kabar03"
sorry, spelled Bubi

He is a member here. Check the member list or email me.

Ill delete these in a few Olivier


Sent this guy 2 PM's over the last few days. No reaction at all... is this guy for real ? Did he contact you, RD ?
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 21, 2007, 04:57:17 AM
Nope AD, no answer from him. I just got outbid for a kit of 2 bayonet receiver for the helmet on ebay...grrr

back on topic, here's a question that always bothered me and I am now in the thick of it with the placement of the AP mag switch.

First I always wondered why there was a NOTCH on the lower left part of the center panel of Jason drawing... now I know. Without the notch the mag switch doesn't fit.
So I had to dig that notch on the installed panel so the mag switch can be placed correctly.

Guys be smarter than me, if there is a cut you don't want to do because you think you don't need it. Do it anyway. One day you might need it and it will be painfull to do  :twisted:

Then comes the hard part:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/456_realAUXconnect.jpg)
Here's a picture of the real bird where the LEFT AUX meets the front panel. As you see thanks to the red arrow, there's no gap between the AUX and the front panel MISC support.

Now, when I mount the magswitch on my MISC support (which is coming from the real glareshield so the part is original) the switch is tilted down and goes beyond the lower edge of the MISC support (about 5mm)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/452_magswitch.jpg)

Since I have no gaps either between my LEFT AUX (which is real also) the switch now conflicts with the AUX console height.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/453_magswitch.jpg)

Of course I could lift the CP by 5mm without really causing any other problem, but then I would have a 5mm gap between the LEFT AUX and the center panel.
No big deal but I'm torturing myself to see how is this possible? Obviously the LEFT AUX and the MISC support are meant to accomodate the switch without any gap, how come I can't?

Any idea is welcome  :wink:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on May 21, 2007, 10:51:25 AM
I had to deal with that problem, too.
My 3-pos switch was just too big.
But I guess my solution won't help you ;-) - I just redesigned my MISC-panel and placed the 2 switches some mm above then in real.

greetings
michi
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 23, 2007, 05:07:22 PM
Lol, thanks Michi. I guess that will remain unsolved for now. I will simply lift up my CP by 4mm and that will do the trick.

In the meantime, I started converting my helmet ...

Pilots have the NVG kit, we have the TIR kit  :D
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/461_tirhelmet.jpg)
I started by switching visor as the original one is completely scratchfree and this one is already scratched. For the use I will have, I don't mind.
Then I attached 3 IR spheres (the kind used in hospitals for tracking purposes) the spheres are attached exactly as the Vector expansion has the IR pastils placed on your cap.
For the moment, they are attached with bluetack, but if further test are good enough, I will bore through the visor to attach them.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/462_tirhelmet.jpg)
The good thing is that I can switch visor and get a collector helmet again :)

Initial flight tests were pretty good. I was a lilttle concerned that the smooth surface of the visor might create interference but so far, none were detected...

I hate flying with a cap for the TIR, flying with this stuff is even more scarier  :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Jarrod66 on May 23, 2007, 07:55:44 PM
Good job on the TIR setup.  I haven't really used TIR in falcon yet, but I use it religiously in WWII sims.  I can't wait to really use it in Falcon.

My question is, where did you mount your TIR?  I am using a projector and I can't decide where to set my TIR.  I guess I will set it on my ICP as it seems to be the only feasible place.

Jarrod
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on May 24, 2007, 01:19:49 AM
Quote from: "Jarrod66"
Good job on the TIR setup.  I haven't really used TIR in falcon yet, but I use it religiously in WWII sims.  I can't wait to really use it in Falcon.

My question is, where did you mount your TIR?  I am using a projector and I can't decide where to set my TIR.  I guess I will set it on my ICP as it seems to be the only feasible place.

Jarrod


How about stripping the TIR of it's housing and converting it to the pilot cam on the top rim of the ICP housing ;)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 24, 2007, 05:26:19 AM
I tried placing the TIR on the ICP column there, right beyond the light sensor. It's a no go.
The TIR is too low and creates angle problem with the IR reflector when placed on the cap or on the top of the head.

Better find a higher position where the TIR can look down at you.
At this time it's on the top of my 24" screen.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on May 24, 2007, 05:36:59 AM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
I tried placing the TIR on the ICP column there, right beyond the light sensor. It's a no go.
The TIR is too low and creates angle problem with the IR reflector when placed on the cap or on the top of the head.

Better find a higher position where the TIR can look down at you.
At this time it's on the top of my 24" screen.


Makes sense ;)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: HOLLYWOOD on May 24, 2007, 11:22:04 AM
im going to do the same thing with my helmet... except im going to use IR LED's so the TIR has an easier time "seeing" the points!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Jarrod66 on May 24, 2007, 10:15:49 PM
I guess I could just mount the reflectors on my nose and cheeks....then maybe they would be low enough..... :lol:  :lol:  :lol:
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on May 25, 2007, 04:17:48 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
Nope AD, no answer from him. I just got outbid for a kit of 2 bayonet receiver for the helmet on ebay...grrr

back on topic, here's a question that always bothered me and I am now in the thick of it with the placement of the AP mag switch.

First I always wondered why there was a NOTCH on the lower left part of the center panel of Jason drawing... now I know. Without the notch the mag switch doesn't fit.
So I had to dig that notch on the installed panel so the mag switch can be placed correctly.

Guys be smarter than me, if there is a cut you don't want to do because you think you don't need it. Do it anyway. One day you might need it and it will be painfull to do  :twisted:

Then comes the hard part:
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/456_realAUXconnect.jpg)
Here's a picture of the real bird where the LEFT AUX meets the front panel. As you see thanks to the red arrow, there's no gap between the AUX and the front panel MISC support.

Now, when I mount the magswitch on my MISC support (which is coming from the real glareshield so the part is original) the switch is tilted down and goes beyond the lower edge of the MISC support (about 5mm)
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/452_magswitch.jpg)

Since I have no gaps either between my LEFT AUX (which is real also) the switch now conflicts with the AUX console height.
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/453_magswitch.jpg)

Of course I could lift the CP by 5mm without really causing any other problem, but then I would have a 5mm gap between the LEFT AUX and the center panel.
No big deal but I'm torturing myself to see how is this possible? Obviously the LEFT AUX and the MISC support are meant to accomodate the switch without any gap, how come I can't?

Any idea is welcome  :wink:


Olivier,
i think you won't have any solution either to "cut" the left aux consolle.
probably this kind of trouble is due to the fact that you're using the Misc support of the BLOCK 15 ... and the Block 52 has a different layout !
I don't have the chance to check measures .. but i'm ready to bet that on the block 52 vesrion the holes are shifted 5 mm higher than in the old version.
As you know there is also a difference on the widness of the Misc support ... probably all is due only to the need to accomodate a magnetic switch

CHeers
Davide
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 28, 2007, 06:08:07 AM
Thanks Strale, and sorry I missed your post Friday ;)
That would be the explanation i was expecting indeed. I will lift a little my CP, no big deal

I finished converting my HGU-55 with an old computer headset that was broken. The hardest thing was to adapt the boom mike, but it's done now and it's working great :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/463_hgu.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/464_hgu.jpg)
and here's a closup of the wires exit.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/465_hgu.jpg)

Here's also my 100% complete VVI.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/467_vvi.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/466_vvi.jpg)

It's still messy back there, I need to work a little more on it...

The bezel is from Ray (thanks mate, they are really great) I modified it a little to implement the backlight. So far it's two while led, but it might still change.

The Flag is a led as well, square type with a flat head, the type used in hifi stuff. I know that using a led is not really appropriate since it wouldn't light without current, but that's not the case in the pit  there's always current.

And finally the needle is driven by a mini RC servo, through fast and SIOC with the USB servo card from Opencockpit.
Programming isn't finished yet because it quite complicated for me to get the non linear response of the VVI - but i will get there.

Next is the AOA, same method
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: maestro209 on June 05, 2007, 08:31:01 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
It's indeed a DED box from Dunk converted to use with the UCC LCD which we all know is too large because of the PCB.

It's been a project ever since we started the UCC, but none of us really found the time to go further than prototype. When I saw Dunk ded boxes, I just knew it had potential and that was the spark that got me going.

Since the UCC team was aware of that problem since the beginning, a mirror option was created for the DED display so the text is correctly set when the DED LCD is reflected through a 45? mirror.

Work started with cutting the top of the ded box to place the LCD face down. Then a small piece of 4mm mirror was placed at 45? (couldn't find mirror smaller than 4mm thick)
Placing the mirror correctly required careful planning and precision work.
The bottom edge of the mirror was sanded at 45? so it rests flat on the bottom of the plastic box. The top edge of the mirror was left untouched and placed just against the LCD screen.

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/407_DED.jpg) (http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/408_DED.jpg)
Here is the initial testing on the top of the DED box with a mirror at 45?. The UCC PCB is still an old proto and will be replaced. The right picture shows the result of the reflected displays with the DED box closed
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/409_DED.jpg)

The problem of using a mirror and placing it at 45? is that the top and bottom edge will not reflect light normally because of the thickness of the mirror. To overcome the bottom edge problem, I made a 1mm trench on the lower part of the ded box so the non reflective part are left unseen.
the consequence is that the 5th line of the DED text is very low on the reflected light.
The ideal solution - as Biohazard found early in the development was to replace the 45? mirror with a prism that would prevent the reflections problems. But I have no access to such a prism.

The older proto PCB was replaced with a production PCB which is much smaller and fit perfectly in the back of the DED box. It's normally supposed to be soldered directly on the LCD PCB but I elected to use wires instead. The hardest thing to do was to remove the line connector on the LCD.
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/410_DED.jpg)
I also place black tape on the LCD that remains green  and spoil the inverted text effect of the UCC DED.

Here's an image of the new assembly test. The pot will go on the outside of the DED box so it can be reached easily to set the LCD brightness.
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/411_DED.jpg)

Next the ded box was painted black inside and outside and all the parts were put together. Note the location of the brightness pot:
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/412_DED.jpg) (http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/413_DED.jpg)

Closed box show the added width from the glareshield that i will have to use because of the PCB. I placed a plastic sheet on top of it to protect the PCB from the metallic glareshield, used 4mm plastic spacers to screw the DED box under the right glareshield.
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/414_DED.jpg)
I just need to stick the yellow sticker to place there and I'll be all set.
I will also place a 6mm high plastic strip above the DED to fill the gap between the top of the DED box and the glareshield frame.

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/415_DED.jpg)
Here's a very low quality image (couldn't use the tripod) of the final result of the DED that is almost as small as the original one.


I'm sorry this is posted out of sync, but here is a great place for optics. You should be able to get an optical quality prism from these guys. Yeah the price may be a bit high, but the quality is off the chart!

>M

http://www.edmundoptics.com/onlinecatalog/DisplayProduct.cfm?productid=2038
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 06, 2007, 07:27:01 AM
Thank you very much maestro, i will investigate
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 09, 2007, 09:47:39 AM
I finally could install the stickbase and the FCC2 in the pit :)
I have been waiting to replace my homemade stickbase that wasn't up to the task with this one for the past 6 months... Now are over the days to fly with a huge center deadzone on the stick, Thanks Arend  :D

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/470_ssc.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/471_ssc.jpg)

It looks messy but I'm spending the week end down in maintenance. I'm redoing part of the Caution panel since it was made after a MLU and I am switching it back to b52 to have it in phase with OF.
I also replaced my Restraint handle with a real one.
The Autopilot magnetic switch is wired and working fine. Quite great to have the Ap switch magnetic and be able to disengage the autopilot with the DISC switch on the trim panel and have the MISC AP switch snap back to the OFF position automatically :)
I will also place a new ALT GEAR handle in place, not the real one, but close enough and place ther new AOA and VVI 100% working gauges..

If I have some time left, I might consider wiring the two spotlights in the glareshield....
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Jarrod66 on June 09, 2007, 08:57:24 PM
Looking great Olivier.  I am going to be putting a magnetic switch on my Jet Start, I can't wait to see it in action..

Later,
Jarrod
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 11, 2007, 04:26:17 AM
Change of plans,
I finally decided that I looked enough at the spider and installed it in the pit so I can start actually playing with it instead of staring at it  8)

The integration in the left wall wasn't quite easy since I had to guess most of the angles of the support bracket. The piece is built the same way as the spider in 5mm thick PVC assembled with glue, screw and paint.

The spider is functunnial and protect the canopy switch + guard that is installed on the left wall as well (for the moment it's still a dryfit) when the spider is lifted, the throttle can't be put in AB and the canopy switch is accessible. Obviously it's wired to open and close the canopy.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/472_spider.jpg)  (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/473_spider.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/474_spider.jpg)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on June 11, 2007, 04:46:04 AM
Awesome RD ! I'm almost afraid to suggest this, but it almost feels like you are doing the one big prohibited thing: it looks like you are FINISHING your pit ?!?! Blasphemy !! Ungodly !!  :shock:  :o

LOL :D

Once again, nice work !
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on June 11, 2007, 05:11:05 AM
Great RD.
I will try to make the same solution in my pit  :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: kdittyr on June 11, 2007, 11:02:58 AM
That looks great, you must be so proud.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on June 11, 2007, 03:23:28 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"
... when the spider is lifted, the throttle can't be put in AB ...


Oh, so that's what the square pad is for? I wondered since it didn't seem to push a switch. Can you post a photo with the throttle up against it?

Nikolas
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on June 11, 2007, 04:27:15 PM
That looks awesome!  If you hadn't have shown us, we'd have never known that wasn't the real canopy lock.
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on June 11, 2007, 04:40:21 PM
Quote from: "Charos"
Quote from: "Red Dog"
... when the spider is lifted, the throttle can't be put in AB ...


Oh, so that's what the square pad is for? I wondered since it didn't seem to push a switch. Can you post a photo with the throttle up against it?

Nikolas

Yeah, can we see a photo ?

Dang, this Red Dog is amazing, isn't he ?
Title: Spider
Post by: Rayman on June 11, 2007, 04:49:48 PM
Just awesome work Olivier, as always i may say. Always looking forward to your posts!

Raymond
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Mil on June 12, 2007, 10:25:18 AM
just info :
the canopy open close switch is normal toggle in the up position en momentary in the down position... closing the canopy lock/unlock lever in the real viper also resets the switch to center position, though you'd have to actuate it  with canopy open ;)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 01, 2007, 03:14:27 PM
It took me a while, but I just opened the way to more features in the pit.
That was phase 4 of the whole plan...

the 4 first working instruments are complete (save for the VVI needing some more tweaks) AOA, VVI, Roll trim and Pitch Trim.
As you can see the AOA has been replaced by another design, based on the MLU VVI.

The VVI and AOA are backlighted and I also feature a square led to simulate the OFF flag driven by the UCC. Luckily in my cockpit, I always have power, even when the MAIN power switch is OFF  :D

I also completely modified the ADI that Arjen made for me. I must say his glue gave me headaches but I finally suceeded in opening it up. I decided to add the 4 flags with leds, also driven by the UCC and made some more stencils for those.
I deleted the ILS bars and remade the backlight and replaced the datum by a more accurate one.
I'll have to open it up again as there is a light bulb not going ON as required.

here's a picture of all the flags
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/475_ADIFlags.jpg)

And here's a video of the AOA and VVI needles working during a very bad approach where I was low and fast and coulnd't even reach proper on speed AOA at touch down.  :roll:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/476_video_instrument.jpg)
http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/instruments.wmv

Sorry I can't embed the video link into the image
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on July 01, 2007, 03:37:17 PM
Nice video !

I can hear the servo's working... very nicely done, RD ! Now get back in there and practice some aproaches !!

:D

Good work ! 8)
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 01, 2007, 04:31:34 PM
You're getting old AD,  :D Just had one more I read... happy Bday buddy.
I expected some comments about my legs from you  8)

I'll go back on shooting some ILS approaches now  :D
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on July 01, 2007, 04:53:29 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"

I expected some comments about my legs from you  8)


No comments, but I saved it to my special folder on my hard drive, and I sent the link to Jody ;)

HEHEHHE !!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Bucks on July 02, 2007, 02:50:58 AM
God Work RD, the servos worked very god Nice Pics and video !!!
Title: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on July 06, 2007, 03:00:59 PM
Quote from: "Red Dog"

The VVI and AOA are backlighted and I also feature a square led to simulate the OFF flag driven by the UCC. Luckily in my cockpit, I always have power, even when the MAIN power switch is OFF  :D


Olivier, I have a bunch of OFF flags. PM me if interested.

Nikolas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 08, 2007, 08:16:43 AM
Finally I was able to work a buit on my pit.
The house move is mostly done (boring wall painting assignements are completed) and the kids and wife are pretty well installed so I can devote a little time this week-end on the cockpit.
My wife is pretty happy she now has a real cosy sleeping room without wires, buzz, computer and aces2 :)


I decided to leave the pit in the garare for the time being as I need to make heavy modification to the center panel. 
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/478_newplace.jpg)
The idea being to install a LCD into the CP to implment the AOA, ADI, VVI, Machmeter and Altimeter.
Two smaller 6.4 LCDS will also be installed behind the MFD. I decided to stop looking for a suitable LCD for the HSI. I will keep the instrument not functionnal and use one of the 6.4 LCD behind a MFD to have it on screen through F4 gauges.
Beside small updates on the CP, that's the plan.

Yesterday, I started dissasembling the CP and it's now totally stripped.
The big question is how will I fit the TFT into the CP ...  :wacko:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/479_stripped_CP.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/480_CP_TFT.jpg)
Answer is .. probably by building a new CP ... I still should have Jason plans available that I didn't use till now since I got that one all made in aluminium

Since the Cp is also stripped, Now is a good time to implement the Fuel Flow with an OSRAM driven by the UCC? more on this later.
And while I am at it, and having wet my keyboard with Davide video of the 4 analogue gauges with Leo Stuff.. I'm tempted to inquire if it's possible to make that a reality into my cockpit, so more on this later

Glad to be back on the thread, I feel like being at the start again.  :-P




Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on September 08, 2007, 08:43:13 AM
Hi Olivier,

i was just able to find that small LCD module
and behind i found the following informations:

LCD MODULE BS-110(C)    2000 ;4.14

nothing else

hope it helps

Davide

hey ... b.t.w.
Your PIT needs to be implemented with Betainnovation's stuff !
Don't miss that chance. looking the gauges moving is a breathless experience.

@Leo ..... 1% for Marketing support .... LOL (just kidding of course!)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 08, 2007, 10:01:15 AM
Davide,

Yeah, I know about Leo stuff and I agree but honest, I just need someone to make me a total price to implement those 4 gauges only.
I have been always avoiding to buy redundant hardware and so far, my feeling is that except for the air gauges The UCC already fills all my need.
So I am considering Beta Innovations stuff, but I don't want to pay a high price for redundant hardware that I won't use. It is my understanding that the Hardware bundle we can get from Leo is not only a solution for the gauges but also for leds and LCDs, .. which I don't need.

Someone prove me wrong, I'd appreciate :)

I just would like to have the RPM and FTIT and NOZ POS implemented, all the rest I can leave without



Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on September 08, 2007, 02:00:28 PM
RD, you can buy an EF lite which is much less expensive and only has two ports.  One port you can use for ALL the round gauges on the right instrument AND aux panel.  The second port...you can use for whatever.  I know Leo has been working on some stuff for the other analog gauges and if those come to life, you'll need that second port for those. 

Leo Mike and I are also working on a CMDS panel and the MLU TWP panel using the OSRAM displays.  Those will plug right into an EF port when all is said and done.

So, the EF lite is perfect as it may be able to do other stuff, but the two ports you'll be using just for the gauges so there won't really be anything redundant there.

Jay
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on September 08, 2007, 05:46:44 PM
One Question ....
One Reply !

Olivier.... UCC is Great ! I understand You .... but as Jay told
there are "smaller" solution that will surely make the job !

Cheers

Davide
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 09, 2007, 06:33:39 AM
Thanks both of you for the input;

I did my homework: (somebody has a red pen to correct the errors and give a rating?)

Suppose I want 3 gauges (NOZ pos, FTIT, RPM) implemented with BetaInnovation solution.

I'd need:
EF Lite: 199 Can$
DX10 8 bit analog output card: 99can$
Noz aircore: 119 Can$
FTIT aircore : 130 can$
RPM: aircore : 130 can$

Supposing I do myself the bezels and tin can, I'm looking at 677 can$ which is 470euros.

I understand the EF lite can do much better than only the aircore gauges:

Quote
Feature list summary per Port:
Multiplexed Mode: 56 LEDs
Direct Mode: 15 LEDs or 15 Lamps & magnetic switches through power output card.
GLCD Mode: 192x64 graphical LCD
CRT RWR Mode: CRT based RWR output.
8-BIT DACs Mode: 10 DAC outputs. (i.e.10 x Air-Core Gauges)
Leds, Mag switches, 192x64 LCDs, RWR output, all that is taken care of by the UCC in my cockpit.
This is what I mean by redundancy. I'd buy a EF lite that can do a lot of stuff which I won't use.

I'd wish for a gauges only solution that would only take care of the gauge part. That would be more interesting cost wise.
Don't get me wrong, I do understand Beta Innovation dilemna and I already think that the EF lite is already a great initiative regarding the EF card that's already quite expensive.
So I am not ranting here, just explaining my way of thinking in an objective way I hope.

But I'm stuck in a corner,

That's where I am at the moment, I helped the UCC development as Jay helped the betainnovation stuff and that's where my loyalty lies. I can't leave the UCC, I owe it the best beta test and ideas I can come up with - even if the development is pretty slow (and lack of progress on the CMDS aspect  cough, ....)
I won't replace the UCC feature with other hardware (especially since it does the job pretty well) I'm trying to find the best possible way to complete the 'working instrument' part of the pit without spending too much money on redundant hardware.

Quote
there are "smaller" solution that will surely make the job !

I think you're wrong Davide, The UCC is actually quite smaller than the Bi stuff.
Even the EF lite is powerful enough to replace the UCC. I'd say that the only part where the UCC beats the Beta Innovations stuff on paper is on the RWR.
And pricewise, the Beta Innovation is not smaller either ;)
But Leo stuff is quite more 'updatable' and much more versatile which is a great advantage (without mentionning the support which is top notch) - The UCC lacks only a working gauges to be complete IMHO, unfortunately it's a big part those days.

Anyway, sorry for the long post (thanks for reading if you made it up to here :) )
I'm not closing doors to anything at the moment, I'm just thinking out loud and I will further think as where the best course of action lies with all the great inputs we get from here.

At this time I feel the 470 euros cost to have only the three gauges working is a bit steep.
Especially whith the possibility to implement the gauges on a TFT placed behind a MFD (which are not functionnal at the moment - so I'm wouldn't loose anything) through F4gauges.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on September 09, 2007, 07:25:36 AM
I'd wish for a gauges only solution that would only take care of the gauge part. That would be more interesting cost wise.

I second that - I'ld vote for more of a modular design for the Beta Innovations stuff. The fact that I need to buy a solution with a lot of functions that I don't need right away has kept me from buying Beta Innovations products. That's why I started out with OpenCockpits cards. Although I know that if I want full functionality to the pit (which I do) I can't avoid Beta Innovations.

Soooo..... Leo.... How about a LEGO-wise, bus-based modular solution ? Bricks with ribbon cables ? ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on September 09, 2007, 12:02:18 PM
Guys,
sorry but i don't agree with You.

@Olivier:
I completely understand Your point of view and i also think that UCC is one of the most nice boards i ever saw !
As far what i can understand is that the problem are the 470? for a redundant system .... ok ... i can understand but on the other hand we see people running mad for original gauges that won't be easy to interface so i think that having those gauges working is relly WORTH the price
Take also in consideration that with Your actual Setup for the VVI and AOA you might be able to drive them with the cheaper aircore motors (305?)

Of course my own few cents point of view

@Kim
Kim ... talking about a commercial or marketing strategy i think that's quite normal that "compatibility" or "modular solution" are a little bit difficult to "bear" for people that spend their time to provide those special boards.

i'm sure that LEO hope that his customer buy a complete line of products from Him ... but this is how usually it works out there too !
Think at EPIC, Phidgets, Realsimulators and so on

I'm a proud UCC and EFFLUX owner and my sim will get life from these two powerfull boards and i don't care about redundancy (hey ... how much redoundant systems are within an aircraft ?? .... eh eh eh)

Cheers all

Davide
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: LeoL on September 09, 2007, 12:30:01 PM
Sorry guys, but I just can't help you here. I decided long ago not to design single function cards because the market is already saturated with them (OpenC, Phidgets, etc.) and I'll never make everyone happy. You want gauges, someone else will want only the LCD, and someone else only LEDs, etc. I think you see my dilemma.

Basically, I cater to users that are looking to build a full cockpit and offer them the flexibility to grow their interface as their project needs grow.

As for gauges only, look at the Plasma+NITRO, it will cost you ~$100 less than the EF-LITE+Dx10 combo. Oh and FYI - the user manual provides sample schematics for each available mode allowing you to build your own add-on cards (Dx10, 7DCA, etc.) For those that can't be bothered, they can of course buy them from me.

The LBC-PWM card is standalone controlled by a pot or can be controlled through the Dx10 card. So there's no conspiracy between Mike and myself to force anyone to buy an EF to control the panel backlights...although now that you mention it, that would have been a great idea.  :firedevil: The EL backlight on Mike's panel can be controlled by anything you want and only requires a 12V source. So any PWM source should work.

Quote
I'd say that the only part where the UCC beats the Beta Innovations stuff on paper is on the RWR.

I dunno about that. Seems to cover that pretty good IMO...but I'm biased. (http://betainnovations.com/biforum/images/smiles/grin49.gif)

http://www.betainnovations.com/temp/f4af_rwr.mov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKg11SHZZ5A

Quote
Soooo..... Leo.... How about a LEGO-wise, bus-based modular solution ? Bricks with ribbon cables ?

Yeah its called OpenCockpits. (http://www.betainnovations.com/temp/rolleyes.gif) I Innovate and let others duplicate!  :P

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 09, 2007, 12:46:32 PM
IIRC Leo outputs to 7 gauges ATM with more coming. The Fuel Flow and ALT are in the works now.

Leo makes his living doing this stuff, so his support and development are food and lightbill driven,  :-P ,

not to mention keeping up payments on his Lamborghini  :biggrin:

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: LeoL on September 09, 2007, 12:58:09 PM
Quote
IIRC Leo outputs to 7 gauges ATM with more coming.

It supports up to 10 gauges and any value in the SM can be used to drive gauges. Of course you would know this Mike if you'd just have connected all that junk I sent you and played around with it some!  :pound:

not to mention keeping up payments on his Lamborghini  :biggrin:

Actually its a BMW...Bus, Metro, Walk. (Metro = subway for you Americans)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 09, 2007, 01:15:08 PM
oh, I still need the 3 small AC's ,thanks for the reminder  :whistle: 8) and  :butt:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 09, 2007, 01:34:42 PM
Thanks for your input Leo

Quote
I think you see my dilemma.
Yes, as I said above, I fully understand and would do the very same if I were in your shoes

Quote
So there's no conspiracy between Mike and myself to force anyone to buy an EF to control the panel backlights
Sorry about that - I hope you didn't get that meaning from my post as it was really not the intention.. if so apologies.
But that's great news - at least I will be a Beta Innovation customer buying that very small card :) I whish I could be a more important customer to help you finance that BMW :-P
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: LeoL on September 09, 2007, 03:40:41 PM
No offense taken, just making a clarification re our arrangement in case others think there is some sort of nefarious collusion between Mike, Jay and myself. We just try to make our stuff compatible.

BTW I meant to say Plasma+RXC card above, not NITRO. It supports 4 gauges, but like I said, all you need is 2 DAC chips and and the Plasma card if you can wire those up yourself as per schematic. If you want to check out the user manual, drop me an email.

Oh and 1 more sale and I can finally afford to buy that shiny new 10 speed bike.  8)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 17, 2007, 04:30:46 AM
Got my hands on 2 6.4 TFT (thanks Mike for the inspiration) to go behind the MFDs and made some testing right away.
They seem to work fine, now I just need to figure how to tell F4 gauges to use them :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/483_MFD_TFT.jpg)

I also started buiding a new CP from scratch. To all of you having gone that ordeal before, respect gentlemen - Sure it's a lot of work.
That damn front part below the HSI almost drove me crazy over the week end  :wacko:

Anyway, I started by cutting the sides and making the forward edges thinner to support the TFT.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/484_woodCP.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/485_woodCP.jpg)
The TFT installed, my CP is 185mm wide which is 6-7mm wider than the real one. Luckily the support parts for the front panel just need 185mm, so I'll be fine.
I also decided not to use a wood part to cover the screen, I'll do it in plastic instead. That will allow me to work with a thinner sheet and thus having the instruments displayed closer to their bezel.





Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 17, 2007, 07:39:48 AM
nice!, i'll be doing the same, rebuilding mine! So I already like your idea of thinning it like you did. What are you doing for the HSI?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on September 17, 2007, 02:56:47 PM
Olivier,
that consolle looks really promising !!!  :beer:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: thebeev on September 17, 2007, 09:41:31 PM
Nice design and idea on the CP.  I'll have to keep that in mind once I get to that stage.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String2054 on September 18, 2007, 12:33:07 AM
 :thumbsup:
Wow your CP is looken GREAT! One idea for the MFDs; I had an issue where the 6.4TFT was alittle on the smalll size, allowing you to see about .125" of the top and bottom screen frame. To fix the issue, when I built Jasons LT/RT insturment panels I bolted the MFD frame to the front and mounted the screen to the back. The hole for the MFD was cut just large enough to hide the screen frame. This made the visible screen size aourt .125" less around the entire MFD, but you can not tell once you paint the inside frame black.

Great work like always I can not wait to see it completed!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on September 18, 2007, 03:20:44 AM
Great work as always Olivier. How are you planning on doing the HSI?

I was thinking of going for a TFT for the HSI and maybe ADI, and wait and see what Leo comes up with for the rest of the gauges, or make them myself.

Raymond
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 18, 2007, 04:08:36 AM
Thanks guys,

Building it, I understand the ordeal and the time Jason and team had to put into making those plans  :wacko: I'm glad i bought them a very long time ago (I must have one of the very first release of the metric plans)
All credits go to them.

Mike,
I haven't found a decent 4 inch display for the HSI and since I planned on building the CP in September, I decided to use one of the MFDs TFT I'm installing to display the HSI. Granted it won't be realistic placed but since the MFDs are dummies anyway, I'm tempted to use them for other necessary purposes.
So the current compromise is to keep the real HSI installed into the CP and use the left MFD TFT for the HSI. The right MFD can be used to display the FTIT, RPM and NOZ pos gauges should I decide not to buy the beta innovation gauges (that will depend on some parts I will sell in the coming days)
Beside, having 4 Video (VGA/DVI) outputs on my computer through 2 NVIDIA cards, adding a fifth screen means I have to go with another connection like TV out or something)

String,
Your CP is my main source of inspiration for this, so thank you. You always come up with great ideas. Thanks for the tip on mounting the 6.4TFT. I'll try to do it the same way as well.
By the way, from the spec sheet of the 4" you mentionned for the HSI, it's a monochrome display, can you confirm that?

Ray,
See above for the HSI, I wouldn't mix TFTs with working gauges on the same panel. That might spoil the look  :wacko:
I have friends who scrapped the angle in the CP so they can have the HSI implemented on the same 10.4" TFT as the other instruments. I like the idea but the problem is that you can't mount the INSTR Mode panel and the FUEL QTY panel correctly and that screw the look of the CP big time. So I decided to use a compromise of my own.
I might very well reopen the CP one day and install a further 4inch display for the TFT, who knows :)




Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on September 18, 2007, 05:44:34 AM
Hi Olivier,

I don't think it will spoil the look so much, as in our M4 MLU's we also have a digital HSI, so it's pretty realistic!! Due to the functions of the digital HSI, the Instr Mode panel has gone. So that would give some space to house the TFT screen.

Switching the different Instr modes is done with the  'M' button on the bezel of the HSI.

Here a picture of it:
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/RGPeters/center.jpg)
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/RGPeters/HSIdigital.jpg)

Maybe the ADI is not such a good idea...

Hold on to the MFD's as Danny (ghost) already has created a piece of software which brings the MFD's to two TFT's. It runs on one PC, and indeed you need 2 dual head graphic cards. Frame rate is good, as well as resolution, but i will let Danny have the honour to write about it! I saw it at his place and its just awesome!!! On the fourth monitor you can even make an instructor screen, showing the HUD and both MFD's!

Raymond
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on September 18, 2007, 06:31:56 AM
Interesting Danny, when is the debut for this software?

jay
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 24, 2007, 06:19:31 AM
Yep Ray, I was thinking about mixing a digital ADI with analog AOA, VVI and so on being not a good idea. I already have seen the digital HSi on tape4 MLUs if I recall correctly. And we could even give ourselves good conscience by looking at a block 60 CP which I think is full digital and quite different than the CP we use for the moment.

Anyway, Between the 7th birthday of my daughter and a great roller day in Brussels where the cars wouldn't be used for a day, I was able to make very minor work on the CP project:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/491_CP.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/492_CP.jpg)
Those angles are driving me nuts  :wacko:  I still have some sanding to do.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/493_CP.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/494_CP.jpg)
I slighly modified Killn's plan - mainly by adding a small part supporting the HSI and helping support the front face of the Console while the glue sets. The good thing is that the part just lay on the console and remain in place even unglued. Much better to calculate the dimensions and angles of the missing parts
When all will be cut, I will glue them in place and add some mastic to fill the edges and sand them accordingly
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on September 24, 2007, 06:53:17 AM
Looks excellent ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 01, 2007, 04:09:06 AM
Thanks Kim,

Here's the follow up;
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/495_CP.jpg)(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/496_CP.jpg)(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/497_CP.jpg)(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/498_CP.jpg)

The lower parts have been glued and a lot of sanding was done from the outside. then I poured some mastics in the joints and sanded again. Old modeller habits die hard.
The TFT fits great so far and all I need to do was to cut an opening in the support aluminium frame to let the HSI go through. That ensured that the actual screen was as low as possible near the HSI.
No such problem on the sides, the gauges edges are within the screen boundaries.

The top instrument plate was made with 1.5mm plastic sheet as usual and the first layer of Ray's bezels have been put in place with blue tack for the moment. I covered the whole sreen to avoid having unwanted light into the Hud housing.
The idea to have it made in plastic instead of wood was to decrease the depth between the instrument front face and the TFT screen. On real instrument, the dials are quite close to the bezel top edge. When using a TFT in a CP, we might have close to 20mm depth between to bezel top and dials which I feel is too much. By using 1.5mm plastic instead of 8mm wood, I already decrease the depth by 7mm. Not quite enough but already better.
The biggest problem is then how to attach the plastic to the wood since I can't use screws. The upper part is attached to the TFT mounting holes and the lower part is still under consideration  :o

Next step is painting in black and fit the upper panel and ICP housing back in place
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Climber on October 01, 2007, 04:13:22 AM
Very nice job. Looks great.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on October 01, 2007, 04:14:16 AM
Hey RD!
That is just turning out really great.
Looking forward to see you fire it up :-)

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 01, 2007, 04:17:59 AM
Thanks guy, me too - hopefully one of these evenings ....
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: bnepethomas on October 01, 2007, 07:09:08 AM
Real nice work, so are you planning to light up the HSI?  Found any useful sites for bringing it to life?

Cheers

Peter
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on October 01, 2007, 01:20:15 PM
Looks great RD!!

Can't you just glue the plastic sheet to the wood CP? that way you will always be able to remove the TFT in case of mallfunction. The bezels look great!

Exiting to see the gauges come to life!! you did a great job in keeping the distance between the TFT and the lenses as small as possible! I will be struggling with that with RWR too..

Raymond
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 02, 2007, 03:26:19 AM
Pete, the HSI has been backlighted since day one on my previous CP. Unfurtunately, one of the pins snapped off during maintenance and I will need to dig ion my notes to find back where to connect it again  ::)
I whish I could interface the flags though

Ray, gluing the plastic to wood is a possibility but the surface contact is pretty small as I thinned the edges of the wood CP so the TFT fits.
Anyway, if I do that, the TFT can easily slide out of the CP from the top, that was foreseen in the building :)

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: thebeev on October 02, 2007, 09:11:45 PM
RD, you can always use duck tape!!  ;)  just kidding...  That CP looks great though, how thin are the  CP walls are we talking about.  I was going to mention clue too. Or maybe one of those really small nails used for hanging up small nick knack things.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: DaveyDave on October 03, 2007, 07:25:20 AM
Olivier, you could probably make some coin selling plans for your pit!  As you know I'm looking to do something simple, small footprint, but dimensionally accurate (angles, panel sizes, etc.)  Believe it or not I have a copy of the "Hell Seat" plans back from 2000 and was looking to build it, but even it is a little bigger than I want. Is their any chance you could post a few dimensions of the interior side walls of your tub (not including the tub height off the floor)? See crude ascii drawing below. I like how your panels end right where the seat back is... only the amount you need. :-)


               ___
              /     |
_______/       |
|                __|
|              /
|_______/
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 04, 2007, 03:26:36 AM
Dave,

I haven't any drawing of my pit available. My way of working is totally weird and will certainly shock the enginneers here.
For the side console for instance, I drawed the internal ribs and outer side walls on paper, knowing the height and widths and angles I wanted to achieve, so those dimensions I can dig from my cockpit folder.
The integration of the real AUX panels was made on the spot, by drawing the AUX console shape in the woof, cutting and thinning it accordingly. So no drawing there.

The easiest for me would be for you to pick some pictures in my thread report and draw some lines on it. Then I can easily measure it up for you.
Sorry - I never thought I would need the dims in the futures as I had no plans of starting again and couldn't have imagined the growing community of pit builders when I started.
In the meantime, I can dig whatever I have as draft drawings in my big cockpit file

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: DaveyDave on October 04, 2007, 08:15:22 AM
The easiest for me would be for you to pick some pictures in my thread report and draw some lines on it. Then I can easily measure it up for you.
Sorry - I never thought I would need the dims in the futures as I had no plans of starting again and couldn't have imagined the growing community of pit builders when I started.
In the meantime, I can dig whatever I have as draft drawings in my big cockpit file



Awesome! I'll get you the measurements I need when I get home in a few days. Thanks!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 09, 2007, 04:05:43 AM
Before fitting the new center pedestal, I need to place the new 6.4 TFTs behind the MFDs.
Jason came to the rescue with a cad drawing of an adaptor piece to fit the screen between the MFD and it's support.
As always, his work is just perfect and the implementations was made very easily - Thank you Jason.

The part is probably not meant to be done in wood but given my poor skills working with metal and the low probability of success doing it with plasticard, I decided to have a try with MDF wood. Since the part is about 8mm high, it might just work out.
It turned out ok and the hardest part was to thin most of the part from 8 to 2mm only keeping the upper and lower edge untouched on 20mm.

While I was at it, i remade my front panel MFD support in 8mm MDF as well - the front panel is a mess thanks to the different updates. It's also a very fragile piece when dissasembled. So I hope the added strenght by the 8mm MFD support will help.
The MFD frames are bolted directly into the adaptor part with the MFD built in screw and placed on top of the TFT resting on the front panel support. Then the MFDs are bolted on the support with the two bottom screws.

The only addition required was to make a 2mm trench on the front panel so the 6.4 TFT fit the casing. Furthermore, a passthrough for the screen power wires needed to be cut in the lower right corner. Easily done on the right, but not so on the left

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/504_MFD_TFT.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/505_MFD_TFT.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/506_MFD_TFT.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/507_MFD_TFT.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/508_MFD_TFT.jpg)

With those two fitted, I'm ready for any MFD solution that might come up :)

Next step will be to place all the TFTs PCB on the backside of the support frames and reapply a coat of black paint before reassembling the front panel



Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on October 09, 2007, 04:17:10 AM
Excellent progress ! Keep at it ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on October 09, 2007, 08:41:49 AM
Looks great Oliver, I'll reference back when doing mine. Thanks
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 09, 2007, 09:29:10 AM
please do Mike, after all it's thanks to you that I got my hands on those
 :yihaw:

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Bucks on October 09, 2007, 11:51:30 AM
Great Great Job Oliver !!!!

Good Working Progress

Regards
Bucks
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Zandor on October 09, 2007, 03:02:47 PM
Yup mine to Mike, the LCDs are due in this week  :rambling: I can't wait

And as always RD lookin good chief!!!  I hope mine does as well installed! :beer:

Later
Z
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on October 10, 2007, 04:18:27 PM
Olivier has ALWAYS good REASONS
to visit his page !

As ALWAYS ... my HAT is OFF to You !

Good Job

Davide
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 10, 2007, 05:38:30 PM
Thanks for the nice words guys  :lol:

I was just informed by a famous french pit builder (Goupil not to name him) that the TFT might develop som heat and that proper cooling should be planned, especially around the power wires of the TFT.
i think it's an important piece of advice that I will follow and since we will be a few to use those TFTs, it might be worth to give the same advice here.

I will open up more area in the wood support so the air flows along the back of the TFT and make sure the area around the power wires (pink&white) are not enclosed in a confined area either to avoid heating problems
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: DaveyDave on October 13, 2007, 08:15:32 AM
Dave,


The easiest for me would be for you to pick some pictures in my thread report and draw some lines on it. Then I can easily measure it up for you.

Hey Olivier, sorry it took so long formetodo a few little lines, hope it's not too much trouble. I'm hoping to build something like a cross between your pit and the "Hellseat" that was around 7 years back. Something prettysimple, no real panels, but with proper dimensions.  Anyway, the red lines would be great to have dimensions of. Also, if not to much trouble too, the approximate angles of the side console slopes to the ground. Thank you so much!!!

Dave
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String2054 on October 16, 2007, 10:56:44 AM
Sorry for the delay responding to your question about the HSI screen RD a few post back. Below is a link to the screen I used from Earth LCD. It is only black and white and the contrast is not that of a color VGA screen, but it works well. You can get a good idea of the look from this picture http://webpages.charter.net/clink2054/Sim_Pics/HSI_01.JPG (http://webpages.charter.net/clink2054/Sim_Pics/HSI_01.JPG). One thing for sure having the HSI functional is a great SA tool while flying and the "Falcon Gauges HSI" works great.

If you ever find a 4" color VGA screen let me know. :)

http://store.earthlcd.com/MTR-EVUE-4BW-MTREVUE4BW?sc=7&category=58 (http://store.earthlcd.com/MTR-EVUE-4BW-MTREVUE4BW?sc=7&category=58)

Chris

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on October 16, 2007, 11:28:11 AM
I found a 3.5" color VGA screen and just bought 2 of them...one for HSI and one for ADI.

Jay
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on October 16, 2007, 11:30:13 AM
I found a 3.5" color VGA screen and just bought 2 of them...one for HSI and one for ADI.

Jay

LINK Please  ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on October 16, 2007, 11:31:29 AM
Actually got the link that Airdance posted up a few days ago in another thread.  Something like flightlcds.com or something like that.

Jay
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ultimateautohaus on October 16, 2007, 11:58:40 AM
This is where i get all my lcds
http://www.avionicslcd.com/ (http://www.avionicslcd.com/)
http://store.earthlcd.com/ (http://store.earthlcd.com/)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 16, 2007, 12:01:43 PM
Dave

I am abroad for now but will take those dims for you next weekend

olivier
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on October 16, 2007, 12:08:06 PM
Avionicslcd is the place.  Pricey little buggers.  I'm still waiting for mine.  Guys said those things sell like hotcakes.

Jay
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: DaveyDave on October 16, 2007, 12:50:42 PM
Dave

I am abroad for now but will take those dims for you next weekend

olivier

Olivier, thanks bro. I believe I jumped the gun a little and started building the "pit" early... I hope my measurements work out ok.  I'll be posting some pics soon. VERY simple pit compared to you folks though, :-)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: DaveyDave on October 16, 2007, 08:01:31 PM
Well, here are those pictures from what I've got so far.
http://picasaweb.google.com/davidscottweaver/DavesPit (http://picasaweb.google.com/davidscottweaver/DavesPit)

I posted a little info in the progress reports forum too.  http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=3056.msg40087#msg40087 (http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=3056.msg40087#msg40087)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 21, 2007, 01:14:50 PM
Dave,

Here are the dims, all are mm.
Some I couldn't take as the cockpit is dissassembled for now.
But the green values are the height from ground, so you can easily get your dimension by substracting them from the red data

* are from the ground

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/parts/armatures.jpg)
Hope that makes sense

Also, the end of the arrow wasn't very precise. in the case of the LEFT AUX, I always ended up on the real part edge
Take note for the 540mm lenght, there's a an 5? angle somewhere there, the smaller horizontal side is 165mm, the 5? climbing slope is 375mm
Any question, let me know

Olivier
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 21, 2007, 02:11:35 PM
The new wood CP is out of the paintshop and subassemblies are being placed. The three new screens are integrated.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/509_CP.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/511_CP.jpg)
It's also the first time I have a vent and the pedal adjust handle, both are bogus. As the HSI.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/510_CP.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/513_CP_ICP.jpg)
I will have to design a cache for the visible part of the screen, no big deal. plastic will come to the rescue again. The HUD/ICP is dryfit in place

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/512_CP__back.jpg)
All the TFTs electronics are inside and on the backside of the CP

Still a few night's work placing the instrument bezels and putting the finishing touch here and there, but I start to see the end of it

 


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on October 21, 2007, 02:32:58 PM
Absolutely f*ck1ng breathtaking ! Super work !!  :beer:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on October 21, 2007, 02:49:21 PM
Just goes once again to show, if you want it done right, you gotta be Red Dog. 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 21, 2007, 02:57:04 PM
Naa, String was my model here and he did very well showing me the way - i just followed the example  ;)

On the other hand, I must be the first wacko to relegate the wonderful all metal CP from Martin to unused cockpit part
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/514_metal_CP.jpg)
And leftover
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String2054 on October 21, 2007, 07:27:04 PM
RD your work is amazing as usual :thumbsup: When do we get to see the MFDs running and are you going to install a digital HSI?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: DaveyDave on October 22, 2007, 07:56:36 PM
Dave,

Here are the dims, all are mm.
Some I couldn't take as the cockpit is dissassembled for now.
But the green values are the height from ground, so you can easily get your dimension by substracting them from the red data

* are from the ground

Thanks a bunch Olivier!!!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 23, 2007, 03:49:46 AM
I wanted to finish the external work before getting the CP in the pit room again where I will connect it to the UCC and interface the 3 screens, I plan a big fight with F4glass and F4 gauges there :)
From my past testings, I think F4gauges will prevail but I wonder how to distribute the instruments from the same F4G applications to three different screens ... unless I extend the office to those three screen... since they don't have the same resolution, might be difficult.
So me too, am looking forward to see those screens come to life.

Regarding the digital HSI, in a way yes I will. It just won't be placed at the correct place that's taken by the real dummy instrument.
I will display the HSI from F4Gauge on the LEFT MFD, and use the Right MFD for various instruments such as OIL, RPM, FTIT, NOZ POS and FUEL - that is until at least I can afford the aircore gauges

Another idea that's crossing my mind is to enable the value of the instrument dials (OIL, NOZZLE, RPM, FTIT & FUEL) as digital values through tiny 7 segments displays placed in the gauges, or even osrams.
Exactly as you did String.
Problem again is that I have no way to interface them. I think you used Epic? Is there another software that makes that possible?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String2054 on October 23, 2007, 09:31:26 AM
I am using an EPIC system with a memory reader (OFreader) that works well for seven segments displays and servos. I would like to install the aircore gauges for the oil, rpm, ftit and noz, once I find some time. What will happen to your HSI once you can display real MFD data on the MFDs?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 23, 2007, 12:40:38 PM
Well Epic is a no go for me.

I am not sure the MFD will be implemented for this flavour of falcon. so I am not too concerned for the near future. I know some of you go into very heavy tricks to make them work but IMHO that's too restrictive for real serious MP flight. Like the inability to use the views and the inability to use the 3D pit and hence the TIR.
There's no way you can fly formations by stricly looking forward in the 2D pit.

So the day the Graal becomes a reality, I will have two choices:
1. Use the swap function of the MFD to work only one one LCD (highly unlikely as I know me) and thus keep the left one for the HSI
2. Place a 4inch TFT for the HSI and replace the real instrument.

So the current solution buys me time and makes the old adage that the pit work is never totally finished very true  :biggrin:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on October 23, 2007, 04:02:31 PM
RD that pit is going to be fricking awsome.
Keep up the good work my fellow  :wacko: man  :lol: :lol:

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String2054 on October 23, 2007, 08:59:03 PM
RD,

You are so right in some ways reguarding MP flight. My MFD setup only allows you to use the 2D PIT views. Now that is good and bad; I still use a head tracker with snap views for rejoins, formation and while moving mud supporting my wingman. Works GREAT
 :yihaw:

The A/A side is the problem. BVR is ok, but once you are in a tight fight that is where I may as well eject :'( without padlock or the 3D pit.

I know some day we will have a better MFD solution, but until then no ACM for me, but I could never give up MFDs in the PIT.

 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on October 26, 2007, 04:01:31 AM
Why not use 3d and padlock in dogfight?  You don't need nor have time to mess with the MFDs when dogfighting, why not switch at that point and then switch back when you're done.

Jay
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String2054 on October 26, 2007, 08:51:50 AM
For some reason when switching from 2D into the 3D/Padlock mode with the MFD solution I am using, Falcon will CTD. I think the screen resolution of 1024x1536 may be the cause. I am sure the CTD issue could be fixed, it just needs some more work.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 03, 2007, 01:27:37 PM
today, another milestone is added:

THE CP becomes operational, at least for the ADI, VVI, AOA, ASI and Altimeter all driven from the same computer with F4 gauges V2

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/517_F4gauge_CP.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/518_ADI_CP.jpg)

It's been a long way to get there (I'm pretty slow) but after 3 months without cockpit I'm getting where I wanted to be and I'm greatly motivated to reassemble the pit now.
I still have details to work out, such as to find a way to extend F4gauges to the MFD screens to displays the remaining instruments, and I also need to find a way for F4gauges to start directly on the relevant monitor..

Hope to post a video soon

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on November 03, 2007, 01:36:02 PM
One word!

WOW!!!

I wish I was there!
Next time I go see my relative in Belgium, I wish I could go and see this great work of art!

Keep it up!
Stephane.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on November 03, 2007, 05:11:04 PM
Very nice work Olivier
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String2054 on November 03, 2007, 07:05:52 PM
I love the picture of the VVI looks real with your instrument bezels. GREAT WORK :beer:

How did you temp display the MFDs?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 04, 2007, 02:04:49 PM
The MFds are just background images for each screen, taken from my stencils.
 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 05, 2007, 04:01:57 PM
Some more closups bezel shots for you String, not as good as what Frank can do, but here they are anyway. Some knobs are still attached with bluetack :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/523_Alt.jpg)  (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/524_bezels.jpg)

I played further with F4 gauges and I must say that program can do anything ... All it takes is a little calculation to make the application being displayed at a certain location (hence screen) but it can be extended throughout three different screens so the instruments scatters on my different LCDs. I never though it would accept to be treated like that. Big cheers to the F4gauges team.
The only thing I don't have access to is the NVIS option of F4 gauges or the setting of the speed caret through the F4Gauge keystroke since I am on the same computer as running Falcon.
No big deal...
The program surely can use a better configuration utility but after a while, it's becoming really easy to get your hands down and dirty in the .ini file with notepad.
I know have reached the point that was my goal for the past three month redoing the CP:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/519_4TFT_CP.jpg)  (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/520_CP.jpg)
All this is driven on the same computer - I use only one computer for my cockpit. Since I only have the UCC, F4 gauges and Falcon running, the FPS remain quite fluid although I have 4 screens .... try that with FSX for that matters...

This was really worth doing I strongly believe that at this time, the only real way to go for someone that wants working instrument is to go the LCD route. I would press further to find a decent 4inch for the HSI if I were you :) but then that would make 5 screens iso 4 and that also means a third video card into the computer (we only have two PCIexpress slot anyway), unless a TV output can be used.
The only place where the analogue solution beats the LCD imho is on the right glareshield instruments (OIL, NOZ, RPM & FTIT) where Beta Innovations stuff is certainly much more exciting than the way I implemented my solution.
Although I considered placing OSRAMS displays into the small instruments there and implement only their digital value as String did. Who know I might do that in the future.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/521_HSI.jpg)  (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/522_instruments.jpg)
CLosup of the Mfds with their displayed information at this time. I will certainly change yet again the right one, but having a working HSI even not at its real place, is a must for me making the falcon charts and flying a lot heads down.

 

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: thebeev on November 07, 2007, 10:37:35 AM
Awesome work RD!  Glad to see that CP working out for you!   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: tango44 on November 07, 2007, 11:42:10 PM
 8)

Wow looks great Red!!  Chris and I am working on a new version of the gauge program.  Completely new interface that will allow selection of the gauges via the mouse, and moving and sizing them alot more intuitive.  I plan to include the fuel gauges for both the C an D models as is there now, and also include the "euro" versions of the VVI and AOA.  I understand that there is also a digitial HSI that might differ, so I'm investigating that as well.  I want them to be as complete as possible, to include dual gauges for those that want to create something other than the F-16 panels.  I might even look into creating instruments for other aircraft for those who might want them based on the data output by Falcon.  Gotta finish tackling our F-16 first.  I've had a couple of major breakthroughs in the last couple of days in development, particullarly in the windowed version of the gauges, there are now frameless windows.  No more having to oversize the window to get rid of the border.  There's more to come. 

The pit is amazing.  Great work.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Bazooka on November 08, 2007, 10:43:09 PM
I would definitely be interested in the dual gauges as the F22 has alot of dual to it. IIRC I read that Falcon supports dual throttle input. Can anyone answer that one for me?

Bazooka
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on November 08, 2007, 10:48:53 PM
Good news Eric, thanks
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: zypo on November 08, 2007, 11:15:50 PM
Is there a thread that explains how to use digital display instead of gauges
It is my goal
thanks
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 09, 2007, 05:31:06 AM
tango,
Good news on the new version. Although I still use version 2 as version 3 gave me some problem. No idea why though
I think the digital HSi is a good idea, I may have some info you might use. I need to check my documentation but let me know if you're interested.
The current HSI is a bit naked and monochrome :) I think it may benefit a lot from being upgraded to the digital HSI with coloured items

The MLU AOA is the same as the regular one, as far as I know only the VVi differs. The needle AOA I made is a view of my mind and nowhere is a real instrument
In case you're thinking about that one.

I'm pretty glad that you are looking at the setup of F4 gauges. Most of my remarks would have pointed there. You see setting the instrument position is a nightmare with AZERTY keyboards. Having the possibility to set them with the mouse will be much better.

There's also the fact that you need to launch Falcon before F4gauge that's a bit annoying. It would be ideal if F4Gauge could be launched before, then put in standby until it can get the info from F4. No showstopper though, quite a minor detail


Zypo, what do you need for information?
I can help if you like, get in touch with me over MSN, as we both speak french, it will be easier


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 11, 2007, 08:49:33 AM
It's been a while I had the glareshield but couldn't install it because of the lack of support. This week end I worked on that part of the pit by making a new shelf for all the electronic behind the CP that can support the front glareshield as well.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/532_glareshield.jpg)  (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/533_glareshield.jpg)   (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/534_glareshield.jpg)
Of course I still need to make the wood plate between the glareshield looking much better than that, trying to replicate the real part.
I am also needing some reals glareshield screws, so if any one of you had some spares, i'd be interested
 :biggrin:

The front glareshield can be lifted to access all the electronics - I have much more place than before so the goal is to make the wires better organised. All electronics from the CP can now be disconnected quite easily which will save me some maintenance time as well as making the dissasembly of the pit.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/535_glareshield.jpg)  (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/536_glareshield.jpg)
The support also is a retainer for the simped
 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on November 11, 2007, 09:07:09 AM
RD,

You don't need the glareshield.
you can send it to me  :harhar:

Great work as always.

Asi
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on November 11, 2007, 10:03:45 AM
RD,

Do you think it is possible to document the glareshield more in detail (pictures, measures) for those of us (like myself) that dare try recreate this thing in ABS plastic sheet ?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on November 11, 2007, 10:22:50 AM
I'm sending my set of forward glareshields to Penny for duplication so there should be a nice affordable solution for everyone here in the near future. 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on November 11, 2007, 11:07:23 AM
I'm sending my set of forward glareshields to Penny for duplication so there should be a nice affordable solution for everyone here in the near future. 

 :thumbsup:

Cheers,

"GUN"
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on November 11, 2007, 11:30:25 AM
I'm sending my set of forward glareshields to Penny for duplication so there should be a nice affordable solution for everyone here in the near future. 

Excellent !
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on November 11, 2007, 12:12:42 PM
Sounds awesome David, although on such items, shipping costs overseas will kill us ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on November 11, 2007, 03:02:46 PM
Well, shipping from the US to Europe is much cheaper than the other way around, and for Europeans buying U.S.-made products, the price is much cheaper too, since every day that goes by, the Euro buys more dollars while the dollar buys less Euros.  So it does make a lot of sense to make this here and ship it there, but I for one don't jive well with the whole "one supplier per product" thing that seems to be prevalent on here, so there's nothing stopping a local European copy from happening at some point.  Though I doubt it will be cheaper, all said and done.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on November 11, 2007, 03:08:45 PM
Well, shipping from the US to Europe is much cheaper than the other way around, and for Europeans buying U.S.-made products, the price is much cheaper too, since every day that goes by, the Euro buys more dollars while the dollar buys less Euros.  So it does make a lot of sense to make this here and ship it there, but I for one don't jive well with the whole "one supplier per product" thing that seems to be prevalent on here, so there's nothing stopping a local European copy from happening at some point.  Though I doubt it will be cheaper, all said and done.
Agreed, but don't forget they also make us pay taxes : add at least 20%, plus (personal experience) 20 EUR customs fee :(
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 11, 2007, 03:15:24 PM
AD, draw some lines on picture and I will dim the glareshield for you.
Won't be easy to make it but I'm sure it's possible

Lightning,
Over there or over here, it dosn't matter - what we need is a VP US office, a VP european office and probably an Asia office so we can cover all the globe and share all those parts :)
I'm exporting a lot of food products int he US in my real life job and the exchange is killing us  :bat:
It won't stay that way forever  :rambling:


Looking at my picture, I realize that the glareshield somehow float in space with only three legs supporting it. I'm wondering If I will place wood panels so the legs becomes hidden, don't know yet.
Adding the console already minimize the floating effect ... I have the real feet sidewalls but I don't know if I'll ever use them.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on November 11, 2007, 03:32:26 PM
AD, draw some lines on picture and I will dim the glareshield for you.
Won't be easy to make it but I'm sure it's possible
RD, your dims-on-pics are the best!  Though I coulda sworn someone did this before??  If not, now's the time -- Having dimensions on just about everything available right here on VP is one of the things that makes this place so great for the real builders out there (versus the "buyers" like myself with no skills ;) )

Lightning,
Over there or over here, it dosn't matter - what we need is a VP US office, a VP european office and probably an Asia office so we can cover all the globe and share all those parts :)

Some sort of "authorized rep" thing would be great if it could be worked out but it'd pretty much have to be on a supplier-by-supplier basis -- still, if we can get the level of cooperation that high across the board, it would be a great service to everyone.  Stuff for everyone to think about is how to do it! 

I'm exporting a lot of food products int he US in my real life job and the exchange is killing us  :bat:
It won't stay that way forever  :rambling:

That seems to be precisely the intention of the "weak dollar" policy Just as it makes exporting TO the U.S. more difficult, it makes importing FROM the U.S. much easier...In reality, it is a "race to the bottom" that no one really wants to "win" -- the U.S. debases its currency by running the printing presses at full-speed, and all others have to follow suit in order to maintain the status-quo "(im)balance of trade"? Yikes!  Shades of "central planning" aside, I'm surprised people aren't taking to the streets with pitchforks yet over this one.  Like you said, can't go on forever -- the "value" of a fiat currency can only drop to zero, no further ;)  Trade war, anyone?  Oh, the joy.  Who'd have thought it'd be between the U.S. and Europe?  Ok, that's about enough macroeconomics talk for one day...though I'd be happy to rant with anyone via IM on that subject, I'm sure the rest of the audience is sleeping already :)

I have the real feet sidewalls but I don't know if I'll ever use them.
Isn't that how it goes with a lot of the real stuff? 

You'd mentioned wanting to work on the center piece a bit more -- that's one piece I really hope we can create a reasonable replica of, but as I don't have that piece either, I'm in no position to help out there. 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on November 11, 2007, 06:31:03 PM
Jay had Dimed the GS at one point, it should be on the forum somewhere
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 12, 2007, 12:22:11 PM
Yep, someone already made that:
Here's what i could find in my archives

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/parts/kabar_dimensions_1.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/parts/kabar_dimensions_2.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/parts/kabar_dimensions_4.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/parts/kabar_dimensions_5.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on November 12, 2007, 12:42:49 PM
Interesting pics, RD!  I have the forward cowl in 2 pieces which are separate and sit behind from the eyebrow glare shields; yours looks to be a single seamless piece serving as both the cowl and glare shield all in one.  Do you happen to know which blocks use which style?

Here's a link to a pic from Pegasus' site showing the cowling version that I have...
http://www.xflight.de/original/pictures/cockpit/1000_0721.jpg
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 12, 2007, 01:23:45 PM
That glareshield is not mine, i just saved the images some years ago for future reference. No idea who took them, i just am sure I collected here on VP
Might be a replica...

My glareshield is the  same one as yours, two separate parts left and right
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on November 12, 2007, 01:28:43 PM
 :wacko: I shoulda scrolled down ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on November 12, 2007, 01:30:05 PM
BTW do you have a pic of the glareshield screws you're looking for?  The ones I have look like garden-variety countersunk screws.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 12, 2007, 02:09:02 PM
Sure

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/537_glareshield_screw.jpg)

They are 0.552 inch long
Diameter of the head is 0.250 inch
diameter of the thread is 0.172 inch

I need about 35 at the most, 22 at the minimum
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on November 12, 2007, 02:48:21 PM
Yep, same ones here.  Where have you looked already so I don't duplicate the effort there?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on November 12, 2007, 02:54:11 PM
Strange looking screw, Dave, try Fasten-all , there should be a store somewhere near you. They stock all kinds of crazy fasteners
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on November 12, 2007, 06:12:20 PM
It looks funky because it's a milspec structural machine screw complying with MS24694 (the old AN509 spec).  Standard stuff in military aviation.  You can get these from Aircraft Spruce by the pound or individually from Aaron's Military Screws or a number of other places, but you have to find the right "dash-number" from the spec itself (i.e. which specific screw from that spec do you need? )  From the measurements you provided, I suspect you've got one of the harder-to-find "dash numbers"...try the next size down or compromise...If you don't need the actual milspec machine screw with the untheaded "collar" or "grip", standard machine screws will probably work fine.

Here's a PDF from one manufacturer of these MS24694 --
http://www.hi-shear.com/standards/hst13.pdf

As you can see from the PDF, you'll need to take more measurements than what you provided.

Anyway they're cheap in unit lots.  Like <$0.20 each.  Let me know which dash number you settle on as being the right one.  We may need to consult one or more additional specs if you absolutely must have that particular screw.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 18, 2007, 08:44:53 AM
If Mrs Red Dog comes home early today I'll be in trouble  :roll:
here's the new messy pitroom ... at least the pit is upstairs and being reassembled

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/537_pitroom.jpg)

Not much more space than in the appartment, but at least I am not in the bedroom anymore  8)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 28, 2007, 11:22:21 AM
Needing to change the Cougar throttle adaptor, i decided to make myself a connector for the wires to avoid having to pull all the wires from the throttle arm (pulling isn't a problem - pushing them back in is : ) )

A std DB wouldn't fit the inside of the arm, so I decided to go DIY with spare Cougar connectors
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/538_throttle-connector.jpg)
It's not pretty but I don't expect that one to be used often so it will have to do
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ~Guardian?~ on November 28, 2007, 11:26:52 PM
 :) Hi red dog , it looks fine plus you can`t see it when it`s plugged in.
As far as the LCD Inst. go
Quote
we only have two PCIexpress slot anyway
Red Dog... you can use a regular PCI video card if you have an empty PCI slot , a card like this will do fine ===>http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130289 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130289)
all you`ll need is a s-video to composit adapter ,NVidia allows you to run as many PCI video cards as your motherboard can take... heheh I`m planning on using a seperate comp to run the sim stuff, like FAST SIOC F4IM etc..not sure yet but that comp`s motherboard has 5 PCI slots and 1 AGP slot.

Great work btw, been watching your progress from 2005 and lovin it hehehe.
 :whistle:" sheeeeh It`s where I get alot of cool ideas."
Rob
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ~Guardian?~ on December 10, 2007, 11:58:56 AM
Hi Oliver was just looking at the new CP and LCD you`ve installed excellent looking , can I make a suggestion if you didn`t do this already,my I suggest you put a protective layer of plexi say 1/8" or 2mm over the monitors..I would really hate to see a tool or coffee drop on them, they look soooo sweet,in my book prevention is better that cure.
Rob.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Mil on December 10, 2007, 12:11:02 PM
Hey Olivier, can you read the numbers on those glare shield screws ? if so, i might be able to fix something for ya ;) ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 10, 2007, 12:53:12 PM
Guardian,

Excellent advice - I actually am building custom protection cases to install on the 3 screens with nice remove before flight tags when the pit is unused :)
Although the risk assesment is quite low since the CP screen is protected by the mini glareshield and it's very hard to reach the MFDs screens

Coffee is really not a problem, the guy crossing the red line with a with a cup might be shot as instructed on the fence :)
The danger are me and my tools (that's a very high risk) and the kids when I 'm not around...


Mil,
Geez, those numers are very tiny
I have different screws that fit. different lenght apparently
The shorter is 
1561  AB  -2  4
or
158l A8 -8  x

The longer  maybe is
983 -3  4

But I'll need to find a magnifying glass to be sure

Anyway, those are the screws that fix the front glareshield (facing pilot) to the larger glareshield, forward of the nose, there are two rows of screw holes on the small glareshield and they screw into the embedded thread of the larger glareshield
at this time the four parts are attached together with 6 available screws.. Luckily it won't pull 9G
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ~Guardian?~ on December 10, 2007, 02:40:30 PM
Great ,hey quick question do you have the diameter of the round hole untop of the ICP mount that holds the HUD optics? 
I`m in the process of making my ICP housing but need the diameter and to find a large magnifing glass to put in there.
Thanks
Rob.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on December 10, 2007, 02:42:16 PM
Great ,hey quick question do you have the diameter of the round hole untop of the ICP mount that holds the HUD optics? 
I`m in the process of making my ICP housing but need the diameter and to find a large magnifing glass to put in there.
Thanks
Rob.
I found that if you're not really aiming for actual optics, the glass of ceiling lights like these work great ;)

(http://www.topdeq.nl/medias/zIsd7DxThCKTA6cTpN3IEb-30.jpg)

OH !

As for the diameter: the radial is 3 inches as far as I know, so the diameter is 6 inches. I need this confirmed though.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ~Guardian?~ on December 10, 2007, 03:08:46 PM
Thanks AD
Rob
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 10, 2007, 03:25:04 PM
mine is 17cm flat diameter
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 10, 2007, 05:40:17 PM
Hi Olivier, must have missed your Glass /Center console post, just went over it and DAMN, love it!!!
Have you tried to tweak the gauge look using the balance/contrast/brightness? Toning the blacks down a little would make them look even more amazing.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 11, 2007, 06:02:54 AM
Thanks Mike,

I will try what you suggest :)

I first have to fix a few problems, the biggest one is getting on track again, After 6 months without flying, the install dance don't seem so easy anymore and I need to get current on different aspect again.
I need to find the best setting with F4gauges also and I encounter some problem for the moment with 4.4, like once F4Gauges is started when I alt tab back to F4, it just gives me a black screen with the F16 mouse pointer.
I need to install 4.5 anyway and see what happens

Getting the Xkeys and the UCC working again required only the connectors to be plugged back in, which is great.

I had a hard time redoing the electrical circuitry, but there's no way around that. You have wires going out everyplace from left to right to center with different voltages and I bless the day I decided to use colour cables.
With the knobs on the Right panel, there's no way to avoid it as you need the main wire to go through the switch there. So even the LEFT electrical component wires needs to go to the RIGHT console.
That makes the circuitry and electrical cables more complicated to manage.
And some needs to be powered constantly: mag switches or because they have their own ON/OFF switch - like the console directional lights. So that means any voltage circuit has to be doubled. One through the switch on the RIGHT console, one direct to the component requiring power.
So I have to manage a 24V constant, a 24 variable, a 5V constant, a 5V variable and soon a 12V constant (for the Gear lock mechanism) and a 12V variable for the soon to be here EL sheets through the PWM (or I may be able to use 12V constant, I don't know yet)
And on top of the cake a 15v constant for the speedbrake  :wacko:
The electrical circuit is by far the most difficult aspect to manage. Luckily, once all is connected and working fine, you don't need to touch it anymore :)

All that is now done, all I have left to do is to finish my CMDS, tweak the Cougar setup and solve the F4gauge problem I'm seeing.

I wonder what I did before starting this hobby ... Oh yeah, I built plastic models .... It's been a long while I haven't started a new one ....
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on December 11, 2007, 07:37:45 AM
I need to install 4.5 anyway and see what happens

You know there is a One Click Installer for OF 4.5, don't you ? PM me if needed.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 11, 2007, 08:40:33 AM
One click, my butt ...
The link to that one was to a paid subscription download
Any way, I have 4.5 on my laptop so a simple c&p will do :)
thanks for the help though  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on December 11, 2007, 08:55:42 AM
One click, my butt ...
The link to that one was to a paid subscription download
Any way, I have 4.5 on my laptop so a simple c&p will do :)
thanks for the help though  :thumbsup:
May I suggest you look for the torrent next time ? :P
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 11, 2007, 08:57:11 AM
Nope, I don't go there :)
Old habits die hard, I like to keep my computer clean  :-P
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on December 11, 2007, 11:56:20 AM
Dude I just downloaded from that link yesterday and it's not a paid download...there are 3 different links for the same download; the first one is like some site where you *can pay if you want more bandwidth but you can still d/l even w/o paying, just wait for the timer to complete and then click the free download button.  The other links pointed to ftp sites and such which allowed my download accelerator to work; I got 1Mbps d/l rates on the files from the ftp site link. 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: eagle_wen on December 11, 2007, 12:04:17 PM
Hi Olivier...

same here...I have a lot of plastic models still in there box. Just looking at the parts while still in the box is the only thing I do with it, in the meanwhile dreaming of a completed model  :'(

But hey...we are building a 1 to 1 cockpit now...when it will be finisched (within some 150 years  ;) ) we always can start again with our models. Probably our hands will shiver so much then that the only paintsheme we can paint is camouflage.  :hangman:

Keep up the good work
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 11, 2007, 12:16:55 PM
Eagle Wen,
And our eyes won't see correctly either :)

Lightning,
It was as I said for a few weeks after release, the ftp links only came after.
And the free download after the counter was not valid for such large files.. you had to pay to get it

Anyway I got 4.4.1 installed, so I just upgraded with other methods, so all is great, except that I am rusty, that's all :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Valcor on December 13, 2007, 12:41:15 PM

I am also needing some reals glareshield screws, so if any one of you had some spares, i'd be interested
 :biggrin:

 

Hello Red Dog

I believe the screws that you are looking for are C7985-3-3 (ct. each side 29, 58 total) and C7985-3-2 (ct. each side 1, 2 total). If you run across a source please let me know and I will do the same for you.

link source:
http://www.wbparts.com/rfq/5305-01-064-4692.html

Notice that the drive style is D8 TORQUE SET. You will need a torq tip to secure these screws. A Phillips head screwdriver will destroy the screw. These screw are designed to take a little more torque than a regular Phillips head screw.

Thanks
Valcor
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 15, 2007, 02:52:52 PM
Thanks Valcor, at this time I'm waiting to see if Mil can play Santa Claus for me  :biggrin:
As for the torque, yep, i concur - the ones I have are so and nothing can resist my proxxon toolbox  ;)
If I find anything I'll post it here anyway

Here's something else for a change...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/539_cmds_leds.jpg)
My CMDS is now 100% operational with switches, leds and OSrams driven by the UCC
I know I need to change those two knobs but for today, that will be it.
I also took some liberty from realism by placing the DEGR stencil with a red led instead of the dispense ready in green as the sharedmemory needs an overhaul for that one
Normally, the DEGR message displays on the Osrams but that's not possible today. So instead of not having the msg used until the sharedmem can, I will interface it with a red led

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/540_cmds_osrams.jpg)
There go the 4 osrams in test mode by the UCC
Still needs to paint the retaining assy in black for better discretion but I feel they came out allright.

It's been a long time I have used the osrams proto board below the older chaff and flares panel. Tomorrow that one goes to storage and will be replaced in the pit with the new 100% functionnal CMDS and the HMD panel right below it


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on December 15, 2007, 03:03:09 PM
OMG, Excellent work mate !

o_O !
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on December 15, 2007, 04:00:27 PM
Rockin'!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: badboy31 on December 16, 2007, 06:12:34 AM
nice work Olivier :thumbsup:

grtz,
Tom
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ~Guardian?~ on December 16, 2007, 12:58:39 PM
Excellent work as usual Oliver.... i`ve sent you my home address so just make sure you wrap up that CMDS panel in tissue and bubble wrap before shipping it off to me for christmas.Thanks I really will enjoy that present and everytime I look at it I`ll remember my pal Oliver...hehehhe :yihaw: :lol: j/k I think I was just dreaming there for a minute  :thumbsup: bro.
Rob
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Jarrod66 on December 16, 2007, 01:59:50 PM
That's just really awesome Red..
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Mil on December 16, 2007, 03:31:26 PM
Thanks Valcor, at this time I'm waiting to see if Mil can play Santa Claus for me 
the C7985-3-3 and -2 i dont think i can get... but i'm working on the alternate number ... NAS 1581 A? - ?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Bucks on December 17, 2007, 07:54:09 AM
Hi RD !!! Good Job in the CMDS panel and the reposicioning DEGR stencil it`s a brillant idea

Cheers
Bucks
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 17, 2007, 10:11:06 AM
Thanks guys

Mil, you have all my trust ;D

Rob, I could, but you know it really is not the time to pull a stunt like that. Xmas season is the worst season for the postal services. We might make them a favor by not overloading their burden...

Bucks, can't take credit for that one, I think someone else made that before (sorry I don't recall who it was ... Skorp, was that you? or Michi maybe?) At the time, I thought it was a stupid idea :-[ and made the CMDS looks like a Xmas tree (which is nice for this period of the year) but now I feel it was a great idea, so I used it as well

Here's the CMDS and the HMC installed into the cockpit
Note to Mike: both panels backplate are just a tad too large and don't fit together the real AUX Dzus hole
Check the alignement on holes on the CMDS backplate
Just a heads up for the following one, I will file the top of the CMDS backplate and all will be well
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/541_cmds_pit.jpg)
altough I placed new knobs, I am not sure they are 100% realistic - which I don't really care anyway.
The good thing is that I can feel the difference and that will be the case. So all is great

I'll try to post a video of the unit in function later tonight, that is if I master those embedded video links
 

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 17, 2007, 12:22:24 PM
Noted------------- and as usual, looks remarkable. :beer:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: thebeev on December 18, 2007, 11:57:49 AM
Awesome work as always RD!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Zandor on December 19, 2007, 01:04:53 PM
Olivier ?RED DOG?,

I just wanted to say,

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

ON YOUR 100,000th THREAD HIT

Your progress, insight, pics, movies, and lunacy, have been an inspiration to us all. 

I have to say that my pit update was started by the ideas that put forth on your thread!

HERE?S TO YOU!
 :bigbeer: :dj:

THANKS

Z
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 19, 2007, 01:14:23 PM
Quite a milestone!!!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on December 19, 2007, 01:34:01 PM
Nice Zandor  :thumbsup:

Well RD... gotta go for 200 I guess  :harhar:

Which I?m sure will happen.... thanks for all the efforts. Very inspiring.

"GUN"
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 19, 2007, 05:43:20 PM
Mucho thanks Z  :-[ ;)

But I am responsible for more than 90% of the hits  :wacko:
And other's people have been responsible for 90% of my work 
:thumbsup: to them


Thank you

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ~Guardian?~ on December 20, 2007, 01:31:24 PM
Congrats Oliver... :beer:
Rob
btw did you ship out that CDMS panel yet? what are you waitin for?Christmas is around the corner man ;D j/k
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: thebeev on December 20, 2007, 01:33:53 PM
congrats RD!  Yeah but your the one that still put the pit together.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on December 20, 2007, 05:55:43 PM
Congrats RD, awesome thread ;) My personal bible :D
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Sledge on December 20, 2007, 06:51:49 PM
Wow RD!  Congrats!  I know all of us appreciate the great resource of your pit thread, and the accompanying research and resources you have made available to us!  Thanks!!   :thumbsup:

-Sledge   
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on December 21, 2007, 05:51:54 AM
Congrats RD  :drunk:, always looking forward to new posts!

Raymond
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 31, 2007, 07:28:53 AM
Here's my first youtube video
The honor goes to falcon gauges


#Invalid YouTube Link#
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on December 31, 2007, 07:31:55 AM
Looks excellent, Olivier ! Very nice. Now, this is a stupid question: what are the hard clicks I head twice or thrice in the video ?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 31, 2007, 07:46:29 AM
RWR spikes from the wingman I guess
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on December 31, 2007, 07:48:31 AM
Looks excellent, Olivier ! Very nice. Now, this is a stupid question: what are the hard clicks I head twice or thrice in the video ?

AD I think its the TW (RWR) somthing is spiking him, but just a guess

And RD, cool vid, looks great :-)

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Cannon on December 31, 2007, 07:58:55 AM
Sweet video , but I would like to see the whole cockpit in action!!  Maybe a ramp start with a little  flying - widescreen! I haven't seen a video made yet on VP of pit flying!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on December 31, 2007, 07:59:01 AM
Of course ! Sorry RD, I should have listened better, it almost sounds like a mag switch going haywire ;) That's why I asked :D

And I agree with Cannon.... get back in that pit, Olivier :P
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 31, 2007, 11:21:38 AM
Here's another one specially for the guys working on F4gauge :) If you read this Eric, i am not sure if the cause is your application or the shared memory, I just realized this one and will need to further study it
One thing is for sure, the NOZ gauges from Falcon gauges is giving the opposite value as the 2D and 3D cockpit of OF:

#Invalid YouTube Link#

Normally during SEC operation, the nozzle closes. Which is what happen in falcon (external view) and the NOZ gage in the 2D and 3D pit
But as you see in the abaove video, the Falcon gauge is telling me the Nozzle is opening and is still variable throughout SEC operations which shouldn't be the case

More on this later if I can
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nutty on December 31, 2007, 11:56:29 AM
Olivier ?RED DOG?,

I just wanted to say,

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

ON YOUR 100,000th THREAD HIT

I also want to thank RD. Paying me 1c for each time I've hit his thread has helped me with my finances ;)

Roll on 200,000 ;)

Nutty (it's in the name)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on January 02, 2008, 09:41:47 PM
Because of the remarkable achievement of 100,000 views and all the effort and contributions Olivier has made to the VP and Falcon community, I have made his pit progress thread a sticky.

Congrats and well done Olivier.

Jay
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on January 02, 2008, 09:46:14 PM
Gosh, with 100K+ views on this thread, you'd think we could all start spelling Olivier's name correctly by now?  :) 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 03, 2008, 11:20:53 AM
Not a problem - I'm used to it and I don't mind at all
Although I do give high mark to an english speaking guy when he spells it right  :-P

Thanks Jai :) Don't let is sticky for too long as we all know mouvement catch the eye 
:biggrin:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: white-eagle on January 03, 2008, 05:22:49 PM
Congrats pal.
And we must soon have some  :beer:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String2054 on January 03, 2008, 10:44:33 PM
Your Falcon Gauge videos look great  :beer:

Eric and I had problems with the NOZ data from the flightdata.h. It is on the list to fix in the next update. I hope we find the time first quarter of 2008.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 14, 2008, 04:40:00 AM
To fight my frustration back with my TFT problems, I decided to actually build something easy
So I installed the canopy jettison handle resin copy made by Dunk above the FUEL panel.
It's only eye candy, but it's a nice touch. I had to lower all the panels and install a specific plate to mount the support.
The handle comes in yellow resin and the black was airbrushed  on the handle. I also weathered the handle as I would do wiuth any aircraft model. Here is was easy since the molding process kept the mark of the paint chipping :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/547_canopy_Jet.jpg)
I also needed a place to connect the headphones in the cockpit, preferably on the left console as the wires are on the left side. So I decided to embed the 2 extension cords for the mike and the headphones.
I will route the wires so they don't interefere with the panels & knobs.
A good idea is also to have a master volume control somewhere in the cockpit (Audio panel) :)

While working in this area I decided to replace the EPU guard that was a single action to a more realist double action guard.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/545_EPUguard.jpg)

After that I took a long flight without instrument displayed on any TFT. I realized how fast you get accustomed to having the instruments functionnal and how bad you miss them when flying the 3Dpit with the TIR  :-P
At least the flight was good and I'm pretty motivated again. End of this week I will have instruments again, even if that means connecting a second computer to make it work  :fight:

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 14, 2008, 04:52:16 AM
Now THAT is some excellent progress, Olivier :D

Glad to see you got your motivation back ;) Keep it up !
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 16, 2008, 05:01:53 AM
Here's a new item installed: Dunk's ALT GEAR
this one is functionnal (except for the white button) but it was a simple plug and play for me as Dunk made all the worf for me. Thanks Dunk.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/548_altgear.jpg)

If I can do a small comment, the holes don't match the LEFT AUX. I could only put one screw in there.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: badboy31 on January 16, 2008, 05:09:09 AM
your pit is coming along very nice Olivier :thumbsup:
its nice to see the MLU pit working,great job RD

grtz,
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - ALT GEAR Handle
Post by: Dunk on January 16, 2008, 10:56:05 PM
Olivier,
Turn the base around so that the larger hump is away from the CMDS Panel.
Then I believe that screw will go in.
If not Blame Mike he gave me the stencil. :whistle:
Dunk
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on January 17, 2008, 01:56:47 AM
Great progress on the canopy release and alt gear, i just love those details, they add a lot of realism to the pit!

Raymond
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 17, 2008, 03:45:14 AM
Lol Dunk; doesn't work
As you imagined I tried - but it's a no go. The distance between the screws is longer on the AUX frame than what it is with the resin.
Probably a model difference betrween AUX for the F-16A & other models
This really won't be a problem to fix :)

Ray, you're right - it's all those details that make a cockpit authentic - this is the part I prefer, like an plastic model - the finishing part
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on January 17, 2008, 07:04:39 PM
- this is the part I prefer, like an plastic model - the finishing part

What??? ??? ??? ???
Olivier's pit is finished! :yeah:

Is this true, are WE really able to finish our pit???
Or is it just another bad joke! :lolsign:

 :hail: :hail: :hail:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Dunk on January 17, 2008, 08:31:01 PM
The screw holes are the same for mine too.
John made me a copy of the Aux panel from resin, and I had the same problem.
It is also an A model Aux Panel.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 18, 2008, 04:58:20 AM
No Stephane,

I said I like the finishing part most. I didn't say it was finished :)
Beside, the finishing part can last very very long  :-\
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on January 18, 2008, 12:45:17 PM
No Stephane,

I said I like the finishing part most. I didn't say it was finished :)
Beside, the finishing part can last very very long  :-\


That's what I was meaning. ;)

I don't think we can ever consider our pit done!!!
Exept if you sell the hole thing. :DOH:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 25, 2008, 03:56:20 AM
Hey guys,  I have a question

I decided to externalize some screens to a second computer. At least the central console TFT will be managed through my laptop
After all it's a simple matter of launching F4Glass data server on the falcon machine and F4glass data client on the laptop.

My question is about the 2 smaller MFD TFTs.
I only have one outputs on the laptop, So I can't connect those there, unless I use the S-video output, but even if I do, I can connect only one ...

I will remove the second video card from the Falcon computer. So that will leave me with one DVI-I output.
So that means I could only connect one screen there.
lately, i read that DVI-I can be single or dual?? apparently it means one output may drive two different screen if it supports DUAL...
At this time I  am checking if my Nvidia 8800GT 512 does support the DVI-I DUAL output
In case it does, I suppose I need a splitter cable which apparently is quite difficult to get?
Does all this sound logic?

Another solution I inquired are the USB to VGA adapter, but it seems (and it's quite logic) that at this time those are unable to drive 3D programs

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 25, 2008, 03:36:16 PM
okay,
The main video card (8800GT) has two DUAL DVI-I connectors
One goes to the main screen 'Dell 24" for falcon
The second connector would be used to drive both the MFD screens

DVI-I means that they are Integrated. They can do both digital and analog
DVI-D makes digital only
The difference in connector is the 4 dots around the flat line
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/DVI_Connector_Types.svg/277px-DVI_Connector_Types.svg.png)

I read that DUAL DVI are able to drive two signals, hence making it possible to connect two small TFT (like MFDs) to a sole DVI-I connector?
What i don't get is that if those two signal are one analog (VGA) and another digital (DVI-D) or can be both digital (DVI-D) or both analog (VGA)?
We find a plethora of DVI splitter cable on ebay:
(http://i11.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/ca/8d/e856_1.JPG) (http://i8.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/c6/38/a377_1.JPG) (http://i3.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/c8/d2/87ba_1.JPG)

the MFDs TFTs have both a VGA connector.
So I'd prefer to geta male DVI-I to two female VGA but most of those I find seem to be single link.

So far my favourite is this one:
male DVI-I to female DVI-I and female VGA
(http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g170/cyk98765432010/DVi%20To%20VGA%20and%20DVI%20CAble/IMG_0084.jpg)  (http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g170/cyk98765432010/DVi%20To%20VGA%20and%20DVI%20CAble/IMG_1064.jpg)
http://cgi.befr.ebay.be/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=290201260186&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=019#ebayphotohosting

If you have any knowledge of that stuff, let me know :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 05, 2008, 01:09:48 PM
The cockpit was all light up today - the Viperpit award found its home

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/549_award.jpg)

Thanks again to all  ;D

The EL sheet package found its home too, after almost 3 months in transit between Fort Wayne and Brussels and back
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on February 05, 2008, 01:14:01 PM
WOW RD   :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
That pit really looks awsome.
JUST GREAT WORK THERE.

Let us see som detail pictures from inside the pit, and some video.

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on February 05, 2008, 01:14:18 PM
That looks FAN-TAS-TIC Olivier ! Amazing !

Can we see some pics of the left side, of the canopy spider and throttle rail and such ? Thanks :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on February 05, 2008, 01:36:41 PM
the Viperpit award found its home

I think it's gonna make sitting a bit uncomfortable, not to mention you might break it  :-P :harhar: ::)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 05, 2008, 02:23:50 PM
smartass :harhar:

It's real place will be somewhere on that wall, next to the cockpit
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/550_award.jpg)

Kukki,
More videos as soon as I can fix my multiscreen setup

AD? any picture you want, just say so .. the left console comes ASAP
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: bismond on February 05, 2008, 02:37:40 PM
One of the best pits around ...if I could only talk him into steam gauging that CP. :reading:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: thebeev on February 05, 2008, 03:45:27 PM
very nice!!! Looking awesome RD!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Obiwan on February 05, 2008, 03:54:14 PM
 :o  :vprules:

no more no less  :D
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: zypo on February 05, 2008, 04:14:24 PM
Magnifique realisation, Olivier
A great example for us all !
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on February 05, 2008, 06:00:24 PM
Quote
any picture you want, just say so

how about a few of the HUD/ICP box, mainly the top for details  ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Dunk on February 05, 2008, 11:54:02 PM

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/549_award.jpg)


I totaly dont know what that is,   But I wont it. "Dumb Blond's very southern accent" (quoting Jesica Simson for HD TV)  :harhar: :D :harhar:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 04, 2008, 06:09:06 AM
Quote
Can we see some pics of the left side, of the canopy spider and throttle rail and such ? Thanks


Sure Kim, Sorry it took so long to register :)
Here are the requested pictures:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/550_leftconsole.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/552_leftconsole.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/551_leftconsole.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/553_leftconsole.jpg)

. The last images shows the throttle handle in Full AB just a tad before conflicting with the ALT GEAR handle... pure luck :)
. On the first image, you may notice the modification I made on Penny Cougar adaptor. I lengthened the part so the contact with the rail remain constant and solid throughout the course.
. As far as the spider is concerned, I am not sure I have the placement correct. It seems to be as the holes in the vynil side panel match. But I was never able to confirm the action of the deployed spider on the throttle, so I can't be sure where the contact zones are ?
. My throttle arm doesn't have the light, so I placed a light ahead of the spider as it is often seen in the real sims. Without that one, the left console is pretty dark. The portable light is on the back of the console and attached on the side of the cockpit.
. The construction of the sidewall was intended only to support the rail and have the realistic implementation of the throttle mechanics. It spoils the external look of the pit which is not as nice as Ray's. That was the only way I found to have the throttle implemented as I wanted it.



Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 04, 2008, 06:15:06 AM
Quote
how about a few of the HUD/ICP box, mainly the top for details 

Your turn Mike, sorry for the MLU dust  :harhar:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/554_hudmount.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/557_hudmount.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/556_hudmount.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/555_hudmount.jpg)

. The HUD mount will need to be angled upwards as It blocks my view of the upper CP instruments. At this time it's not level with the top of the glareshield and I hope to be able to correct that soon. I also hope it will be enough, otherwise I will have to find a way to pull the seat back and downward...
. Not sure if one day I will be able to implement a working HUD in there ... Anyway, I first need to get the type A HUD mount :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 04, 2008, 06:21:30 AM
And finally, the beginning of the MFD quest thanks to Lightning. I'm still nowhere with this as I ran out of time to set it up correctly
 :clap:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/558_mfd_extractor.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on March 04, 2008, 06:28:22 AM
Now where's your HSI gonna go?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on March 04, 2008, 06:37:11 AM
Great pics Olivier!!

I am still considering going the same route regarding the throttle.
Maybe a more open design with some plexiglass ribbs or aluminium parts, as i want to have the left side still visible for display. Not sure yet..

The MFD's look great already.

I think you will also need to go for the EHSI, at least you will be more MLU that way! ;) (as i see a lot (at least four..) of non MLU panels... :bat:) :biggrin:

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: bnepethomas on March 04, 2008, 07:32:56 AM
Ta for the Pics, awesome work.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 04, 2008, 09:52:44 AM
Quote
Now where's your HSI gonna go?
Yeah, all your fault bud  :wacko:
Honest, you know what ... I might just get happy with implementing only one MFD and keeping the other for the HSI :) After all we have the swap button and it's quite easy to use ... :DOH:
Beside, wouldn't that save some FPS ...

Quote
I think you will also need to go for the EHSI, at least you will be more MLU that way!  (as i see a lot (at least four..) of non MLU panels... )

Yes but then i'd need to make more surgery (not a problem) and I need a new graphic card PCI with two outputs on my second computer (does that even exist?). And EHSI needs to be network able.
And MLU M3 haven't all the EHSI :) But you spotted it well, I don't mind mixing the MLU and block 52 component.
I found some MLU panels too hard to implement with OF (EW for instance), so I mix them the way I want  :D





Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: heines on March 04, 2008, 11:38:44 AM
great pic's RD. you have one of the best looking pit's here on vp.
a joy to look at  :thumbsup:





( for all the other guys, you also have nice pit's  ;) )
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on March 04, 2008, 02:02:13 PM
Wow  :o

Look better then the real thing

Asi
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 04, 2008, 02:51:07 PM
I confess ... Sometime, I'm bored with Falcon  :-\
So from time to time, I fly Lomac - Flaming Cliff and it's Su25T and even the A-10 ...

From there, trying to see if it's easily possible to reconfigure the cockpit for a second sim, is a small theoric step... and a rather big jump on the practical side..

But there are some cockpit builders in the Lomac community and they have outstanding Su-25 and Su-27 cockpits and they are working as hard as we do to implement as many functions as possible with sometime many fewer tools than we have ... I'd like to honour them tonight

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/560_lomac_LOVP.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/559_lomac_LOVP.jpg)

Sure, i'll never have as many functionnalities as with Falcon but it's good to be able to switch to another sim for a few nights .. and meet new challenges


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: badboy31 on March 04, 2008, 03:51:20 PM
  :o  Nice Work Olivier  :thumbsup:  :clap:
your pit looks better then the sim in KB

grtz,
Tom
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on March 04, 2008, 05:49:52 PM
Excellent posts, RD, and thanks for those pics... they clear up a lot of questions ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on March 08, 2008, 11:52:53 AM
Look rally great RD. Keep up the exelent work :-)  :thumbsup:

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on May 14, 2008, 05:31:01 AM
Olivier,
I am going to have to build a map case, so could you post any pics you have? I need to get a machine called a bead roller first, but since accrding to Sheldon it will be a year or two before a case comes up for sale, I will make it. Any pics from anyone will help. I'll even build more than one if I can get some REALLy good pics and dims. Next, I like the black look of the MLU and I see you using a hybrid so could you let me know what panels you are using that are not Block 50/52?
Thanks, mate
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 14, 2008, 05:35:36 AM
Nigel,

Nope, I never took picture of the case before installing it in my pit.
Here are the best ones I've got - let me know if you want me to dim it up.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/195_consoledroite.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/196_consoledroite.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/197_consoledroite.jpg)

As for the MLU question, here's the deal:
The MLU is great but it has no support in falcon. I do use the MLU layout, but I'm sticking with what's supported in Falcon. So that means I have a hybrid between a MLU and a block 52 (CMDS, FLCS, TWA, TWP, ...)
I would vote against doing a MLU unless you can live with the fact that yout pit isn't realist but follows Falcon and not the real bird.

quick summary of the main differences:

- keep the b52 TWA and TWP
- Keep the b52 FLCS panel
- Keep the CMDS instead of the EWMS
- Keep the B52 Misc panel for a minor detail: the Chute. The MLU doesn't have the SILENT/NORM QUIET switch since it's on the HMCS panel so you still can install that one (I did)
- No ECM on the MLU, that's a problem with Falcon. I avoided spending some cash on an ECM panel where only one switch would be used. (the OPR one) I instead chosed to place the ECM OPR switch on the CMDS panel (MSL switch) because if you miss flipping that switch at ramp start, the CMDS will remain DEGR
- No AVTR panel on the MLU either, don't need that one myself so I scrapped that.
- the absence of both ECM and AVTR makes room for the Trackball panel on which I placed the NVIS switch and a Pot for FOV which I don't use anymore thanks to the TIR
- ICP is slightly different, but we don't care as far as functionalities are concerned.
- Jay may say that MLU doen't have the INSTR MODE panel left of the HSI, but that's only from the Tape M3/M4 introducoing the EHSI and lots of MLU in the Belgian AF still have that panel
- Arranging of the caution lights is slightly different... (stay with falcon there)
- labelling on the AV power is different as well, but even Block 52 have it differenty depending on the mod


Basically, I could say I have a black B52 cockpit  :yihaw:
Must I be banned for my lack of realism :biggrin:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on May 14, 2008, 05:41:05 AM
Dims would be great, and if you take a bunch of pics of the lid and hinge area that would probably do it. Also, if you can get a dim for where the mounting tabs are located...
Thanks,
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 14, 2008, 05:44:03 AM
Will do ASAP
Hinges might be hard to picture as I cut them off
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on May 14, 2008, 05:18:54 PM
Nice Progress there RD, it just gets better and better.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Hope to see more progress from you soon.........Its so cool to se good quality work.

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 15, 2008, 04:44:40 AM
There's no real progress kukki  :-P Just old pictures to answer Nigel's question.
I actually paid Nigel to bump my thread  :harhar:

I'm waiting to get a FLCS panel to make an addition to the left console, apart from that and working with minor details in the pit not worth a progress report, I'm enjoying flying falcon ....
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on May 15, 2008, 04:52:02 AM
Thanks Olivier,
It looks great. All your changes make sense. The trainer I have was a B40 and has the LOX gauge so for me a Block 50/MLU makes sense. Can we call it a Black 52? Block fiftymoo?
Thanks
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on May 15, 2008, 04:55:58 AM
Olivier,
Do you remember what trackball you used?
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 15, 2008, 05:57:42 AM
Yes I do :)

that's the one I'm using:
http://www.nsi.be/gk38.htm

not sure if you can buy one there (maybe request a sample ... :))
I got mine from a good friend who had one around
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ks4au on May 15, 2008, 05:11:27 PM
Where do I go to find the digital info in Falcon to support the indicator lights and the DED?  This is a newbie question, but I had planned to build my pit around MSFS until I discovered Falcon.

I do have a couple of keyboard emulators with macro capabilities (Hagstrom KE-108) so I can handle the inputs, but I have not found where to get the outputs.  I am currently running Allied force, but have the disk for F-4 and have downloaded most of the mods, although I have not installed them yet.

I would appreciate any advice.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 19, 2008, 10:24:09 AM
My stuff is driven by the UCC: http://users.skynet.be/fa551125/
But Beta Innovation (www.betainnovation.com) is also a possibility
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on May 19, 2008, 01:30:54 PM
Yes I do :)

that's the one I'm using:
http://www.nsi.be/gk38.htm

not sure if you can buy one there (maybe request a sample ... :))
I got mine from a good friend who had one around

They don't have a US distributor but I googled panel mount trackballs and I found a whole bunch of cool ones.
Thanks
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 26, 2008, 04:47:23 AM
It's been a while I couldn't enjoy a day of genuine wood cockpit building :)
Luckily, Sunday morning I built the left console extension.
The idea is to place a FLCS panel and move the trim panel there as well. I will also place the TEST panel, but it won't be placed realistically.

It's a simple assembly that will be screwed in the left console.
Since I had the real part and some suitable space, I also implemented the DEFOG handle for eye candy purpose.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/568_extensionLeft.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/569_extensionLeft.jpg)

And here it is placed alongside the current left console:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/570_extensionLeft.jpg)

Now I just need the FLCS panel to go in there :)

During the week end, I also made extensive maintenance such as activating new UCC lights, replacing the ICP switches with the ones I got from Flightsystems (finally installed them),  fixed my throttle handle which had a wire severed (I have been flying for the past two months without mastermode and without Speedbrake switch => that one really teach you inertia :))
I also angled my ICP/HUD support more upward so I can read the Altimeter and Machmeter better when seated.
Lots of minor stuff but taking quite some time...

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: heines on May 26, 2008, 11:06:38 AM
very nice RD,
keep up that good work,  :thumbsup:
will you extent also the other side?

cheers heines
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 26, 2008, 12:43:30 PM
nope, there's isn't much to add on the right.
I will just add the arm rests. And that may lead me to build the sidewalls  which I don't look forward to :)

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: triggerhappy on May 29, 2008, 04:58:07 PM
I confess ... Sometime, I'm bored with Falcon  :-\
So from time to time, I fly Lomac - Flaming Cliff and it's Su25T and even the A-10 ...

From there, trying to see if it's easily possible to reconfigure the cockpit for a second sim, is a small theoric step... and a rather big jump on the practical side..

But there are some cockpit builders in the Lomac community and they have outstanding Su-25 and Su-27 cockpits and they are working as hard as we do to implement as many functions as possible with sometime many fewer tools than we have ... I'd like to honour them tonight

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/560_lomac_LOVP.jpg) (http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/559_lomac_LOVP.jpg)

Sure, i'll never have as many functionnalities as with Falcon but it's good to be able to switch to another sim for a few nights .. and meet new challenges




Sniff.. Sniff.. Dude.. that Is just so nice of you to say..  :thumbsup:

I don't know how many of the LockOn or DCS Pitbuilders read the Viperpit forum (allthough I hope they ALL DO.!). But I'll make sure to mention reading this..

I mean coming from you guys who build cockpits that are just friggin out of this world, this is really a compliment...

Maybe one day we'll reach the level you're  on.. maybe..

504th "Triggerhappy"
Bomber Wing
Su-25 & Su-25T flyer and Ka-50 Pitbuilder
My pit : http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=27270 (http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=27270)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on May 29, 2008, 10:05:28 PM
Olivier, nice addition :thumbsup:, a few years and you will have canopy sills on the pit  ;)  got the panel done and will be on the way, not the quick turnaround you expected, RL stuff....been going on....looks like I'm holding up your progress a bit :whistle:


Triggerhappy, took a look at your thread , very nice work!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 30, 2008, 07:08:43 AM
No need to apologize Mike, I perfectly understand the tight schedule we all have to live with.
Now where's that baseball bat. I'm coming to NY late June and I might hop to Indiana to make you pay  :bat:

triggerhappy,
I really mean it :) You guys really have less tools than we do and I'm really suprised by the level of stuff you get. I have some friends in the french community that builds complete Su-25 cockpits and they get splendid results
(you don't have anything to envy them with your cockpit either :) )
http://www.3rd-wing.net/index.php?s=cddbd828e4da484b2358a7528c1364db&showtopic=5701

As for me, I programmed a layer toggle key for my two Xkeys on an unused cockpit switch (double pole) and I programmed the red Xkey layer for Lomac.
That way, by switching one bat in the cockpit, i toggle between Lomac and Falcon. pretty convenient.
When using Lomac, I also display some gauges through LOVP and/or gauge composer
Utlimately, i may get a crack at Lightning MFD exporter to export the LLTV on the right MFD .... :)

But for now, it's back to Falcon in full swing with some heavy testing, so the SU25T is in the hangar for the moment, but I will get back to it soon....




Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: triggerhappy on May 30, 2008, 09:14:52 AM
I agree with you..

There seems to be a gathering of developers in 3rd Wing? LeCreole with hes brand new version of the LOSIOC software. The LOME project. Razorback's KA-50 Pit (eeenvy). Gillesdrone with the su-25. Specnaz with he's Su-27 pit. Gromlich with he's Su-25 pit.. and the list just goes on and on.. 

But I still look to you guys for both information and more importantly INSPIRATION..! And I will keep looking at your work.

PS. MAN I envy your panel building..!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ShockWave on June 09, 2008, 01:18:45 AM
Hello RD,

I was curious if you made your Hud box from scratch or are these real components?  I am mainly looking at the top of the hud?

Thanks for your time and your Vpit looks great!

David.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 09, 2008, 04:38:26 AM
David,

I was lucky to get my hands on a resin copy of the Hud box that was rejected for too many air bubbles :) it was molded on a real MLU part - don't ask how  :wacko:
it's heavy but nothing beats it.

Needless to say, i'll be forever thankful for that guy  :beer:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 11, 2008, 06:07:19 PM
Some liking football (soccer) are glued to their TV, I stick with my pit

I spent the last few days making a full ramp start video with Falcon. It's not good but hell, it's a full rampstart from a cockpit. I hope it will motivate you guys to get on with your projects :)
#Invalid YouTube Link#
Again, I'm not very good at video editing, the sound is bad, the camera shakes (no AD you can't stick that beats on your helmet, the FOV isn't wide enough) and I will make it better next time :)
I'll post a better video tomorrow morning (20Megs)

Enjoy
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on June 11, 2008, 06:56:55 PM
yep, motivating,  great functionality too!!  thanks
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: gancio on June 11, 2008, 07:22:22 PM
more than motivating...Mouth watering....
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Cannon on June 11, 2008, 11:19:50 PM
I think that is the first full ramp start pit I've seen on here! Great job and accomplishment on your project-  can't wait to see more video!

Later, Cannon
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on June 12, 2008, 02:54:19 AM
Very cool  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on June 12, 2008, 03:02:47 AM
GREAT Ramp start RD, very motivating :-)
GOOD job  :thumbsup:

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on June 12, 2008, 04:11:10 AM
Fantastic Olivier!!! :beer:

The MFD's and the centerconsole look great!

How do you like the MFD extracting software?

See you next week!

Raymond
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 12, 2008, 04:22:37 AM
Thanks guys,

Ray, the MFD simply is the cherry on the cake :)
but it sucks because now I miss my HSI  :harhar:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on June 12, 2008, 07:45:27 AM
I think that is the first full ramp start pit I've seen on here!
Then you can't be here for so long ;)
here's mine, nevertheless it's not quite as impressive as RedDogs (no working MFDs, very dark), but it's working ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=001HPYvO9OE

greetings
michi
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on June 12, 2008, 08:35:30 AM
My thought is to swap the ALT and HSI positions and use Leo's ALT in the lower CP , then move the HSI up to the "glass".  Of coarse this would depend if you are running the Beta Innovations stuff....solution for the practical and not the purest :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 12, 2008, 08:40:45 AM
Hey Michi, we share the same checklists :) amongst other stuff as we can see on both videos :)

Mike,
I don't have the Beta Innovations gauges (I miss them)
so that won't be possible, but it's a good idea :)
I will have to install a 5th screen there to replace that HSI. Problem is that for the moment, I can't install a third video card without busting my video driver setup which happens to be rock stable at the moment)
Asi gave me some hints about PCIe 1x video cards, i'm studying it and that's probably the road I'll take

Another way would be to use my second computer again, just to drive the smaller HSI TFT networked with Falcongauges. I have to keep things for the future :)


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on June 12, 2008, 08:45:27 AM
What LCD are you using for the HSI?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 12, 2008, 09:17:43 AM
Haven't figured that one out yet Mike ....
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on June 12, 2008, 10:21:30 AM
Hey Michi, we share the same checklists :)
:) yeah... Did you know, there's this funny guy on the net, who gives them away _FOR_FREE_ (can you imagine that?) *G*
Must be one of this FRENCH *cough* guys, according to his funny name :-P

BTW, fantastic work on your pit, it still keeps being one of my greatest inspirations!
How is the performance of the MFD exporter doing?

greetings
michi
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 12, 2008, 10:52:10 AM
He's not french, believe me :) He justs speaks french (amongst others) because half of the banana republic he lives in speaks french  :argue:
 :biggrin:

The MFD extractor is great, a bit slow to update but I still need to tweak the export values.
Framerate loss in 3D are not that important, but my system ain't a bad one either.
The good thing is that it works in both 2D and 3D but I have a slight problem in 2D where the top of the left MFD flashes. No idea where it may come from but I'm afraid it may be driver related. Performance is much better in 2D than in 3D but it goes away as soon as you don't look that specific view.
I also had to revert from 1920x1200 to 1600x1200 since in 1920x1200 with OF, you don't get the full MFD view, only the top half. It's annoying but I can live with it.

And thanks to Lightning's clear handbook the setting up is quite easy. takes about half an hour to set the whole thing in motion.

The only thing I didn't try was to install Aeyes specific 3D cockpit, the pictures I have seen don't convince me and I prefer to see a cockpit instead of a big hole below the aircraft frame.

As suggested by a clever guy on the MFD thread, I programmed my Hotas to use the 2D/3D export switching on my Cougar HAT1, on the same macro as the 2D cockpit and 3D cockpit, so that one becomes completely transparent in use.





Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on June 12, 2008, 12:08:20 PM
The good thing is that it works in both 2D and 3D but I have a slight problem in 2D where the top of the left MFD flashes. No idea where it may come from but I'm afraid it may be driver related.
I'm not sure if you saw in the MFD Extractor thread about tweaking your driver's anti-aliasing setting.  Setting it to a fixed value instead of "Application Controlled" (at the driver level, not in Falcon) seems to take care of that problem -- it fixed it on my machine here (on both ATI and Nvidia cards with latest drivers).  I'd be curious if it goes away in this next release or with a tweak to that driver setting, though.

Performance is much better in 2D than in 3D but it goes away as soon as you don't look that specific view.
I also had to revert from 1920x1200 to 1600x1200 since in 1920x1200 with OF, you don't get the full MFD view, only the top half. It's annoying but I can live with it.
Yeah, now that I have a 1920x1200 monitor, I noticed that as well in the #2 view.  In the #1 view, of course, the MFDs are visible on screen at all times, but I'm not sure how many people are actually flying or even doing their ground ops using the #1 view to begin with.  The one good thing about using the 1600x1200 resolution, though, is your 3D FPS rates are better at 1600x1200 than at 1920x1200 :) At least, that's true on my machine.

And thanks to Lightning's clear handbook the setting up is quite easy. takes about half an hour to set the whole thing in motion.
Should be even easier in this coming release, due out Sunday, barring any difficulties.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 05, 2008, 10:25:35 AM
Here I come again :)

Can you guys guess there's some wood cutting ahead
I'm getting ready to plug the 5 inch for the HSI in my CP

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/577_HSIcomp.jpg)

No idea if that PCIE1x will be up to the job of driving the HSI, but I'll figure soon enough :)

I'm excited  :D
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Squid on September 05, 2008, 11:10:36 AM
Given the small amount of video data for the HSI, it should be OK, since this kind of card is made for replacing integrated video on movie playing computer.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 06, 2008, 01:51:36 PM
Thanks Squid,

Fighting on two fronts, installing and configuring the video card and the new screen and making it fit.
Piece of advice: Do it when you build your CP, no after like this very fool  :wacko:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/580_CP5inch.jpg)
It's too tight. I'm not sure I can place it behind the woodwork. Can't dig into the wodd from the surface either (the main screen eats to much place)
So I think I'll have to make a casing in plastic for both the HSI bezel and the blank left plate. Lots of low points doing this but I'm not sure I have the choice
...
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on September 07, 2008, 08:25:53 AM
Olivier,
Cut into the air vent. It looks like you dont need much, half inch maybe? Who would know? Move the PEDAL ADJUST down a little. You can do this.
Also, I should have some news on cutting the screen this week. I am waiting on UV sealant. That might be another answer.
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 07, 2008, 01:27:34 PM
Yep, that's a possibility - haven't decided which way to go (I have been staring at that for the whole weekend not being able to cut anything before that 5 inch work fine)

Anyway, here's some more bad news with falcongauges:

Back when I mounted my MFD screens, I got bad display as soon as the falcongauge window was dragged to any of the 2 MFD screens. Those screens are driven by a 7600GT with the same driver as the main video board (8800GT) that drives the main screen for F4 and the CP screen for instruments (Falcongauges works fine on those two screens)
Well, today I connected a spare screen on the PCIE1x 7300GT running the 169.21 driver as well
And I have the very same result with Falcongauge: lined display:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/587_F4g_PCIE1x.jpg)
I thought it would be the fact that the PCIe1x is not good enough for the task, but then the 7600GT which has the same problem is a PCIE16x
When I try EHSI instead of Falcongauge, the small app works very well on the 7300 PCIE1x, confirming my feeling
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/588_EHSI_PCIE1x.jpg)

Anyone already encountered the same problem with Falcongauge?
The only thing I can think of is that both cards with the problem are Serie 7 GeForces .. ?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: sugarmate on September 07, 2008, 06:29:55 PM
I encountered a similar problem with falcongauges at some point, but I can't really remember how I solved it  :-[

It was with GF 7xxx series card, but that was irrelevant. Hmmm... maybe it was just a matter of making the secondary screen reside on any side but the right of the main screen, that gave the problem. When I dragged it back on the right of the main screen (on Desktop properties dialog), the problem was solved.

I am not sure though if THAT was the problem I had, that was remedied with this approach... the thing is, however, that this problem is most likely solvable...

Give it a try, maybe that was the cure...
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 08, 2008, 03:47:29 AM
Lol, now that's worth a try indeed

The yhing is there's a bug in windows multi screen stuff when the main screen is not the right most one :)
When a secondary screen is on the right of the main screen, a shifting appears when an DX application runs full screen on the main one.
That shift the application on the secondary screen off the edges => making that application partially invisible.
I encountered this with F4 & falcongauges when F4 was not on the right most screen.

I'll try anyway - thanks
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ghost on September 08, 2008, 06:13:03 AM
I fixed that issue within the EHSI software. I know of the problem and is easily solved by updating the screen position of your window every update cycle. But thats for the programmers ofcourse.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: tango44 on September 08, 2008, 09:34:07 AM
FalconGauges does update window position every cycle, that's how I manage to store the coordinates and any sizing in the config file so that it remembers where and what size you've made the window.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 08, 2008, 09:35:37 AM
Any idea where I can look Eric to try to solve that one?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: tango44 on September 08, 2008, 12:49:43 PM
Not sure really given my novice programming skills.  Try the new version I sent you and we'll take it from there.  FalconGauges is the first program I've ever made in opengl so it's a learn as you go type situation.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 08, 2008, 01:09:24 PM
Thanks Eric, will try

Quote
When I dragged it back on the right of the main screen (on Desktop properties dialog), the problem was solved.

Nope, worth a try but didn't do any good. Falcongauge on the right and I get the same problem
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: sugarmate on September 08, 2008, 01:35:28 PM
Sorry to hear that... Let's hope the new Falcongauges version doesn't have this issue...
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: tango44 on September 08, 2008, 01:46:36 PM
Did ghost write his HSI stuff in openGL?  perhaps he can explain to me what he did and i can add it to FG4.0?  Like I said with my limited programming skills I might not fully understand what he's talking about.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: thebeev on September 08, 2008, 02:53:19 PM
Here I come again :)

Can you guys guess there's some wood cutting ahead
I'm getting ready to plug the 5 inch for the HSI in my CP

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/577_HSIcomp.jpg)

No idea if that PCIE1x will be up to the job of driving the HSI, but I'll figure soon enough :)

I'm excited  :D

Hey RD,

Where did you end up finding that PCIE 1X card?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 09, 2008, 03:57:13 AM
Well I hunted it on ebay for about 2 months, checking every 4 days. Then I found it in the UK. The seller was www.envizage.com
I had found it also out of ebay in UK, but the companies I sent request to never bothered to answer, same with the Korean company manufacturing them, no answer
So far, except the above problem with Falcongauge (which I don't think at all is coming from the video card) the card has been working fine and giving me excellent result

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Reboot on September 09, 2008, 10:12:11 AM
Hi RD.

     Did you try the 5? screen on another card, maybe an ATI. To se if that is OK
I believe both the card and screen are ok    just a mater of finding the right solution.
I hope this works out for you, after all the hard work finding the right card and screen.

All the best Reboot.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 09, 2008, 10:27:46 AM
Thanks Reboot
So far I tried on three cards, but all on the same computer and same driver - probably a waste of time :) but I tried anyway. same results
I do have my older computer which has a ATI in it. I can try it out, but it won't help a lot since I really can't start mixing ATI and Nvidia cards on the same computer  :wacko:
It will prove the TFT is running OK, but I haven't any reason to believe otherwise.

I'm sure this is a driver or Nvidia problem - I read more and more report of buggy TV out on the Nvidia forum. So that may just be my problem - it doesn't detect the TV correctly and remains unable to set the correct mode.

This is scary :)
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1096325/how_to_force_a_tv_out_on_a_laptop_pc/
They force the TV detection by shorting Pin 1&3 of the connector.

Ray also reported that his TV out only started working when the analogue connector of his card (VGA blue) had a screen connected to it.
So far I fooled it by simply plugging an adaptor without a screen, but now I'll try connecting a screen there.
This is turning into sorcellery
  :puterrage:

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Reboot on September 09, 2008, 10:53:46 AM
After I recommended the overscan thing, I searched the internet and found that lots of people
Had problems with new Nvidia drivers, I read of things as  (Nvidia overscan fix) and (Nvidia resolution fix)    It seams that older drivers has more settings for TV-Out than the new. 

Keep at it.


        Reboot.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 09, 2008, 11:07:41 AM
Yep, before shorting the connector, I'll try the older NvidiaCP version tonight
Thanks for all the support, I start getting the impression that I'm flooding VP with this issue and I apologies  :-[
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Reboot on September 09, 2008, 11:28:49 AM
Apologies, don?t be stupid is this not what we wont to read about, this for me is the best time
Hear at VP.   MFD Exporter,  FalconGauges,   10.4? screens,   5? screens,   screens all over the place,      Raymond's pit,  RedDog?s pit, and all the other pit?s,  Apologies, don?t be stupid.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 09, 2008, 02:34:09 PM
Well, I'm starting to think it's the 5 inch.

I tried on the ATI after all and it gets recognized right away and ... I get the same messy flashing  displays
So I had a moment of lucidity (sit down and enjoy - it doesn't happen often) and tried to connect the 5inch to a portable DVD player
and guess what, same messy flashing display.

Now that thing has two signal type to be connected to a rearview car camera they say, NTSC or PAL. Maybe that's something I need to find how to set.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Reboot on September 09, 2008, 02:40:54 PM
Rd. You don?t happen to use the same cable?????
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 09, 2008, 02:54:45 PM
lol, no. I switched cable and adaptor a hundred times since last Friday :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 21, 2008, 01:32:27 PM
Not sure I had a chance to post a picture of the latest work on the left console extension.
It's now complete. TRim panel was relocated, FLCS panel added, TEST panel added but not at the real place (instead of the ECM panel) and Defog handle added as well
I just forgot to paint the aluminium fail Dzus rail in black
All switches there are regular electronic switches with painted resin caps.
The FLCS reset is a real one and the FLCS bit is a magnetic switch functionnal thanks to the UCC
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/591_FLCS.jpg)
The Dzus are fakes one from Dunk. For you European having bought a few, you'll need to find M3.5 conical screw to go in there
M4 are too large and don't go in, M3 are too small. M3.5 is perfect but harder to get  :(

I also added some stickers. Those are normally found on the canopy sills but I found some other places
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/592_placards.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/593_placards.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on September 21, 2008, 02:54:47 PM
Excellent progress ! Your pit is always a joy to look at... inspirational and the kind of level I aspire for my own ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: heines on September 21, 2008, 04:18:54 PM
very nice RD  :thumbsup:
and yes , a joy to watch

keep it up ;D
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on September 21, 2008, 07:43:58 PM

... and the FLCS bit is a magnetic switch functionnal thanks to the UCC ...


What is the bit in the Falcon mem?
I have some mag switch I don't know what to do with!
I guess one just found it's rightfull place....  :cheerleader:

Great pit as usual, very inspirationnal.
Mine is getting closer and closer but not with the same worksmanship!

Great job! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 22, 2008, 06:18:16 AM
no bits, mate
Homemade (ucc) programming to make it work just for the fun of having it included in the ramp start procedure
It's bogus but I am addicted to the sound of those magswitches flipping back into position  :wacko:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on September 23, 2008, 03:43:41 AM
I am addicted to the sound of those magswitches flipping back into position  :wacko:
:) Who isn't? ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on September 23, 2008, 09:09:49 AM
Thanks Squid,

Fighting on two fronts, installing and configuring the video card and the new screen and making it fit.
Piece of advice: Do it when you build your CP, no after like this very fool  :wacko:
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/580_CP5inch.jpg)
It's too tight. I'm not sure I can place it behind the woodwork. Can't dig into the wodd from the surface either (the main screen eats to much place)
So I think I'll have to make a casing in plastic for both the HSI bezel and the blank left plate. Lots of low points doing this but I'm not sure I have the choice
...

RD,

I am about to build my CP from aluminum. I have the same LCD as yours but I still don't have the 5" LCD.
Any good tips how to build the CP so everything will fit? Can you summaries all the changes you did back from Jason's originals plan?

Thanks,
Asi

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 23, 2008, 09:24:28 AM
sure Asi,

Wait till you have your 5'' is the best advice I can give you. It's much easier to do the CP around the two screens than trying to fit the 5" after the CP is built.

- Add 3mm on the left and 3mm on the right side (from Jason's plans)
- delete the small 3mm wide plates that go between the top of the CP and the MFD support (that will give back your 6mm)
- Leave the HSI & vent centred
- Make sure you 10.4 don't go too low so it doesn't conflict with the 5" room you need

I had to thin the innards of the CP on the whole length where the screen touches, that's obvious is the picture above. You probably won't need to do that with aluminium though. Just make a rail of some sort for the screen to rest in.
I also had to cut some aluminium frame of the 10.4, but that was mainly to fit te real HSI which is now histrory

I hope that helps
 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 23, 2008, 05:58:08 PM
Olivier, did you sort out the 5" problem, does it fire up ok?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on September 30, 2008, 07:40:08 PM
Thanks Olivier.
Since the 5" will not be arriving soon  :D, can you post the dimensions,
so I can build a mock up to try it on.

Asi
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 01, 2008, 08:58:41 AM
Nope Mike, the 5inch is not operational yet... still having problems
But I get the EL sheets today  :clap:

Asi, the dims of the 5 inch are 94.1 x 117.1 x 7.6 all in mm



Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 01, 2008, 12:42:51 PM
Do you guys know what is the best way to vent frustration ?

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/595_rsrudder.jpg)

Spend an awful lot of pit money :outof:

EL sheets and a new rudder the same day.. some work ahead
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on October 01, 2008, 03:03:31 PM
Holy s*** ! WOW !

That's an awesome part you got here. Hope it will find a good place in your pit :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on October 01, 2008, 03:56:18 PM
Did you rob the Credit Lyonnais ??

Man RD, that's one awesome purchase ! Aren't you glad you got yourself some PHCC boards now ? Those are relatively easy to hook up with PHCC (http://forums.varxec.net/index.php?t=msg&goto=1060&rid=0&srch=lvdt#msg_1060) :D
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on October 01, 2008, 05:08:17 PM
 :o Congrats RD, those are absolutely beautiful!!

And Kim, i think it was Fortis.....
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 01, 2008, 05:27:38 PM
geez AD, Credit lyonnais is french, here it's Belgium for the time being at least :)
And that's not a real rudder, it's a RS rudder and it will plug right through the Cougar

Clement, yeah I have a nice place for it  :harhar: It just doesn't fit but nothing a saw can't fix  :D
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on October 01, 2008, 06:20:00 PM
Where did you get it?
I taught RS was not producing them for the simmer now-a-day!
Is it second hand or directly fom the company?

Me want one too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Killratio on October 01, 2008, 09:59:17 PM
Do you guys know what is the best way to vent frustration ?
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/595_rsrudder.jpg)




BA$^#&D!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  :lolsign:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 02, 2008, 03:47:20 AM
Well, since that rudder has been produced by RS, I have been whipping myself for not buying one initially (not that I had the cash at the time though)
So when a friend of mine wanted to sell his, well I just couldn't resist and got it
That guy was very kind with me regarding the price considering the demand for such a thing.  :-*

Quote
BA$^#&D
Agreed  :viking:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Killratio on October 02, 2008, 03:57:11 AM
RD,

Seriously, congrats...what a great pickup!!!


D
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nutty on October 02, 2008, 05:01:56 AM
Well, since that rudder has been produced by RS, I have been whipping myself for not buying one initially (not that I had the cash at the time though)

Yup - I continue to kick myself that I didn't pick up one of these when I had the opportunity. Oh well.

Well done RD ;)

Nutty

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 04, 2008, 07:27:05 AM
The rudder is placed in the pit and I had the luck to be able to interface the pedal adjust handle. I stored the cable inside the CP and by deploying it, I was kindly surprised that the distance matches and I could easily interconnect the handle and the rudder.
Only problem is that I couldn't locate the imperial bolt to screw on the cable which seem to end with a thread. So I had to use the closest metric I had and triple it. No pretty but it works fine

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/596_rsrudder.jpg)

So if one of you tall guys one to come and try the pit, at least we can adjust the rudder  :harhar:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: bnepethomas on October 07, 2008, 08:30:46 AM
Hi Olivier

Pretty sure during one of your start up videos, it looked like you press a test switch which light up indicators and played a couple of the warning alarms.  Was that some custom code or something I've missed in OF. Thought the Test Panel didn't have any active switches?

Ta

Peter
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 07, 2008, 08:52:21 AM
It must be the Mal&Ind test. That's the only function implemented on the OF test panel. It's there since SP3 or 4 I don't remember
The callback is called SimMalIndLights
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on October 07, 2008, 01:37:54 PM
Hey RD!

Congrats on that catch... totally excellent mate - I?m all laughing on you?r behalf  :bounce2:

With regards to the pedal-adjustment-part.... any chance you could find time to elaborate how you made it work - preferrably in another thread of course. Very interesting!!!

Lot?s of words and pictures to do so I?d guess, but would make a nice "article" on the subject.

Cheers,

GUN
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 07, 2008, 04:56:31 PM
Well Gun, this is really no rocket science
I took the real pedal adjust handle plus cable I had stowed in building the wood CP, I unstowed the cable from the CP and with a huge bit of luck, the distance matched  :D for once
So I just connected the cable to the RS part designed to received it and done. The hardest was to find a way to replace the imperial nut I can't source
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: DeeBee80 on November 02, 2008, 05:35:03 AM
Wow, Red Dog your pit looks ace! I really wanna start on a pit, but im not sure i have the techie knowledge for it.  :-\

IS there anywhere where you can buy them for not stupid bucks?

Also anyone here from UK?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on November 05, 2008, 01:46:52 PM
no bits, mate
Homemade (ucc) programming to make it work just for the fun of having it included in the ramp start procedure
It's bogus but I am addicted to the sound of those magswitches flipping back into position  :wacko:

Mate,
as i have also the great UCC.. you have to explain me how to ! LOL
I do LOVE too the sound of those switches flipping off !
Then ... if i don't have any trouble to light up the FAIL lndicator i need more info on what's the indicator behavior when all is running
i linked the FLCS indicator on the 5module 10Function to the FLCS output on the ELEC Panel and looking also at the real startup video it seem to be ok .... but it's not clear to me how the BIT works does it light up both indicators and then the indicator switches off when the bit procedure is ended ..... and the RUN green light .... is it ON when the FLCS is working ? or it's OFF ?
Thanks for any update on this.
Cheers
Davide
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 06, 2008, 04:11:34 AM
Thanks DeeBee, they are some Brit here, not as many as the Dutch guys  :-P
what do you want to buy? full pits for cheap? I don't think you can find one unless you're lucky to get a second hand one (if that was your question)

Davide,
Well, first I have a slighly different UCC than yours with some prototype projects in :)

In the real bird, the green RUN light comes on when the BIT is running. Internally you don't see anything except a specific MFD page which we don't have in F4. Externally, the flight controls moves in a specific sequence.
When the bit is complete (about 45sec) the switch snap OFF and you've got two possibility:
1. the bit was sucessfull and nothing more is required => the RUN light go OFF
2. the bit FAILED and in this case, the RUN LIGHT is OFF and the FAIL light comes ON.

So to answer your question, the RUN light comes ON only when the BIT test is running.
With an external circuit, it may be possible to activate a logic system staying true for 45sec to power the coil and the RUN light for 45 secs. No way to simulate a FAIL bit with OF though.
A bit overkill for something mainly eye candy and used in Ramp start only to pass the time during INS alignement :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: MicaGR on January 09, 2009, 05:39:11 AM
Dear Red Dog

I am new in this forum and I have to say that your topic Red Dog's pit is the first i have seen and watching again and again...
It's amazing... perfect...  :clap: :clap: :clap:

I want to ask a favor cause i am not that good...well i DON'T have any IDEA how to make a viper pit... :stupid: and i am looking to buy a ready one... so i can screw it up connect it to my computer and ready...

Is there a link or someone who i can buy a pit? :vprules:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 09, 2009, 05:58:08 AM
Well, It looks like I've been too busy flying to update my thread correctly...
I think I never posted my HSI solution after all the trouble I went through trying to implement that instrument.

Salvation came from Lightning (again) who convinced me to revert to a VGA 3.5 inch instead of a TVout 5 inch.
So I went for it and got a 3.5 inch from AvionicLCDs though David who was kind enough to add one for me on his order, many thank again :)

The bad news is that the screen is too small for the HSI. But since the EHSI is smaller than the mechanical HSI, it's doable. Yet you loose some 5-7mm in height using this display.
The good news is that you can keep the INSTR MODE PANEL and embed the 3.5 inch display into the EHSI casing which in this case was homemade in plasticard as always :)
The idea of avoiding cutting into my CP did the trick for me and from there I was sold.

So display arrived quickly and I started right away with the casing. It's made based on the real one but of course I had to compromize so the display would fit correctly.
Took me about a week-end. The M mode button is implemented with a microswitch and the HDG and CRS knobs are implemented with pulse buttons I got in the past (those always replace encoders in my pit)
The HDG and CRS are swapped in place
I don't use the M button for now as I do still have access to the mode knob

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/598_EHSI_bezel.jpg)

The software was done by Danny, EHSI and works like a charm. Somehow, I can't use Falcongauge on that screen, as soon as I try, I get a falcongauge window black with white lines and nothing come out of it.
Yes the screen is left of MAIN, it uses the same vid drivers as the other. But since EHSI works fine, no big deal

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/591_eHSI.jpg)  (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/592_eHSI.jpg)
Here's the stuff installed in the pit. I've been enjoying that one in flight for a couple months now, it's a blast.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 09, 2009, 06:14:22 AM
Hey Mica,

Although I was not the one asked, I thought I'ld help you with my answer.

Every year two or three members of the VP community that have near-ready pits decide to drop out either because the fun is gone or for financial reasons.

That will be the only chance you'll have at buying a pit, but never expect a plug-and-play pit - you'll have to invest time and money to get a pit going and every pit has it's quircks; things that are unique to that particular pit which if they have not been told to you by the previous owner will keep you busy for quite a while.

There are companies (among others a danish one) that sell ready made pits. Prices are from USD 65.000 and up. Those pits generally illuminate the outside view and MFDs/RWR with one single projector located in front of the pit. Picture quality is far from good and the resolution of MFDs and RWR is the lowest of the low.
However, this might suit your needs.

In short - don't expect to pay a bucketload of money and be flying in less than a week. It simply is not like that.

The quickest build I've seen here is more or less two years of hard work; don't expect anything less there either ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 09, 2009, 06:33:00 AM
Wrong thread Kim  :harhar:
Is there a special award for that  :-P
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: MicaGR on January 09, 2009, 06:40:49 AM
Dear Sir

Thank you for your fast reply at my question...It was very helpful what you told me...
Well I don't really have the time to start making a pit of my own so... it would be better for me if I fint a ready one.. so I can buy it and somehow I can connect it to my PC or something so I can use it...

Or perhaps use it as bed :biggrin: cause its one of my dreams to have a pit...
I wish I had a Mirage 2000 pit cause my father was a pilot in Mirage F1 but... I haven't found a home pit perfect as a viper pit...

An other question that I have is....in... HOW...i can find out and know when a member want to sell their own..

Thank you again for all! :-[ 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 09, 2009, 07:13:38 AM
Wrong thread Kim  :harhar:
Is there a special award for that  :-P
Wrong thread ? Hehehhe... guess you missed a post then: http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=537.msg62605#msg62605 :P :P

Is there an award for THAT ?  :harhar:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Tulkas on January 09, 2009, 08:10:38 AM
Hei Red Dog! Happy to see you finally sort out all problems with your CP, I was wondering about it. Looks impressive as always.

That screen looks great! May I ask how much it costs? I am starting to think how to make the RWR and that one looks to have the correct size.

Cheers

Tulkas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 09, 2009, 10:46:37 AM
lol kim,
ok I think I deserve the missed that post award then :)

Mica,
Airdance said it all

Tulkas,
thanks :) cost are around 250-300us$ id I remember right and yes it would beperfectly suitable for the RWR too
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Hatch on January 09, 2009, 03:47:55 PM
Hi RD,
COngrats for your EHSI, if I knew you were ordering, I would have ordered with you!  :'(
Are there any people buying this 3.5" LCD, minimum order quantity is 3 pieces??

Hatch
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Bebop on January 15, 2009, 07:20:44 AM
Wow RD, that's great solution to the tricky HSI problem!   :hail:

I think I will plan to do the same.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 15, 2009, 07:28:28 AM
Wow RD, that's great solution to the tricky HSI problem!   :hail:

I think I will plan to do the same.
Heheh... and to think RD copied this one from Rayman... don't praise the wrong Guru ;) :P
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on January 15, 2009, 08:29:24 AM
Hi RD,
COngrats for your EHSI, if I knew you were ordering, I would have ordered with you!  :'(
Are there any people buying this 3.5" LCD, minimum order quantity is 3 pieces??

Hatch

I might be interested but I'm concerned about the customs. Olivier, did you pay taxes for it? If yes, how much?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Bebop on January 15, 2009, 09:33:45 AM
Heheh... and to think RD copied this one from Rayman... don't praise the wrong Guru ;) :P

Ahh, I missed that somehow.  Praises to Rayman as well then!   :hail: :hail: :hail:

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 15, 2009, 09:56:03 AM
Quote
Heheh... and to think RD copied this one from Rayman... don't praise the wrong Guru 


Well actually the guru here is lightning, so please praise the correct guru  :-P
So AD, next time investigate further  :-\

Ray uses a 5 inch display which is behind the CP and he had to cut through the wood CP. Then he placed his EHSI bezel on top of the opening.
I don't really like that because I feel the difference between the top of the bezel and the screen is too deep.
Plus that way prevents you to install the INSTR MODE panel, which I wanted to keep.

I used a 3.5inch display following lightning's advice which is placed on top of the wood CP. No need to cut it. Which was the deciding factor for me. (and the TFT is VGA, no TV out CRAP)
Then I made a plastic bezel in different layers (based on  Ray's) bezel and it goes on top of the CP and encase fully the 3.5" display properly so it's almost invisible.

Bottom line, Ray's way is pretty different than the way I did it - but I wouldn't have thought about it if Lightning didn't point the feasability of such a system. So he's the one to praise :)
Since having the EHSI, I praise David (for the idea) and Danny (for his software) and ray's (for sharing his bezel info) aloud anytime I sucessfully intercept a radial  :roll:
that's why I'm always a little bit late lowering the gears. Can't lower it while my arms are up in the air
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on January 15, 2009, 10:23:58 AM

Ray uses a 5 inch display which is behind the CP and he had to cut through the wood CP. Then he placed his EHSI bezel on top of the opening.
I don't really like that because I feel the difference between the top of the bezel and the screen is too deep.

You're wrong there Olivier, the top of the CP is from 1,5 mm aluminium, so the display is very close to the bezel!
The 5 " TFT is actualy 1 mm behind the alu frontplate, just enough space for the wires of the encoders.

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/RGPeters/EHSIon.jpg)
The space between the TFT and the bezel is no problem at all.

The TV-out works perfect with mine and Danny's and is A LOT cheaper than a VGA (paid only $ 50,- for it...)

But i like the 3.5" also a lot !

It's great that we share our ideas and solutions on the forum, so there's always a solution that fits the need.

Raymond
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 15, 2009, 10:46:02 AM
Well Ray,
no that's exacly what wanted to say. maybe it's fine for you, but it was too deep for me (especially with a smaller display than the real instrument)

the depth between your screen and top bezel is equal to your bezel depth+1mm aluminium, and for me that's too much.
That would be in your case something like 8mm to 10mm deep. Mine is only 2mm.
That's imho another advantage of the 3.5" solution.

Quote
TV-out works perfect with mine and Danny's and is A LOT cheaper than a VGA (paid only $ 50,- for it...)
Yep you're right. but I had to buy two and both had the same problem on my rig. So if I wanted to use them, I needed probably to change video cards :) and that's way more money than giving away those 5 inch crap to friends (willing to test them) and buying the VGA :)

Quote
great that we share our ideas and solutions on the forum, so there's always a solution that fits the need.
Exactly, that's why I pointed out that the 2 solutions are very different and took the time to explain them. So each next pitbuilder can choose whichever solution suits him best :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on January 15, 2009, 11:57:06 AM
Since having the EHSI, I praise David (for the idea) and Danny (for his software) and ray's (for sharing his bezel info) aloud anytime I sucessfully intercept a radial  :roll:
that's why I'm always a little bit late lowering the gears. Can't lower it while my arms are up in the air
LMAO!   Both solutions look really great.  I am going with the 3.5" approach too, mainly so that I won't have to modify my real CP.  For me, that more than makes up for the higher cost of the screen. 

Also, the resolution is really high on those little 3.5's from AvionicsLCD (higher than on most 5" screens even!), which was another deciding factor for me, since I'm implementing terrain visualization, moving map, and some synthetic vision functionality in addition to the basic navigation display modes. 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 15, 2009, 02:51:52 PM
RD,

Are you mad at me now ?  :-[
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 15, 2009, 03:00:54 PM
 :go:
Yeah I won't talk to you again before 22.00  :harhar:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 15, 2009, 03:05:27 PM
:go:
Yeah I won't talk to you again before 22.00  :harhar:
OUCH ! Please let the hurting STOP !!   :hangman: :realsick:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Tulkas on January 16, 2009, 05:40:38 AM
Red Dog, if you still have the 5" TV-output maybe I am interested in buying one of them for my RWR. I understood they are ok, just problems working with your ridge, right?

By the way, I notice the TFT fit better in my CP if I place it up-side-down, is it possible to turn 180 the  HSI with FalconGauges?

And now, if you allow me a small kidnapping of your thread I have to ask something to Ray:

The 5 " TFT is actualy 1 mm behind the alu frontplate, just enough space for the wires of the encoders.

Raymond



Can you tell me what encoders you used and where to find them? I need something very tiny that fits in the HSI bezzel and doesn't stick out on the back side. Thanks!

Cheers

Tulkas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on January 16, 2009, 08:36:11 AM

And now, if you allow me a small kidnapping of your thread I have to ask something to Ray:

Can you tell me what encoders you used and where to find them? I need something very tiny that fits in the HSI bezzel and doesn't stick out on the back side. Thanks!

Cheers

Tulkas

Hi Tulkas, lets stop hijacking Red Dog's thread. You can find my HSI solution here:
http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=1062.420
The encoders are from RS (online), the left one: ALPS STEC11B08, the right one ALPS STEC11B04, the right one is with a switch in it, which is used for brightness adjust.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: fyreb0t on January 26, 2009, 10:46:53 AM
hi red dog, i hav only 1 problem wit u; i want your pit!!!   :taz:  arrgh........... sorry about.
u hav a beautiful pit.

fyrb0t
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 26, 2009, 01:43:38 PM
hi red dog, i hav only 1 problem wit u; i want your pit!!!   :taz:  arrgh........... sorry about.
u hav a beautiful pit.

fyrb0t

What's up with your keyboard ? It drops a couple of letters each word you type !
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on January 26, 2009, 02:48:55 PM
Really nice RD, but I hate your Mark Becon light.
I might hae a real one, but with the landing gear light head, but the real Mark Becon head you can then wish for :-)

Ill take a look.

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 27, 2009, 03:49:26 AM
It's an epidemy ... Kukki has some letters missing too :)

I'm sorry Kukki, I don't understand what you're saying :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: KK on January 27, 2009, 04:40:58 AM
Quote
I'm sorry Kukki, I don't understand what you're saying

Kukki was trying to say something like: I once had a fingerlicking original real deal
spotless MARKER BEACON LIGHT and I accidently sold it to someone
who I can't remember who it was (come on D... ) and now I'm
desperately looking for another top as I still have the base for it .... .....
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 27, 2009, 04:43:17 AM
Nope, i think he said he might have a real one for me and he's looking if he finds it back  :-P
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on January 27, 2009, 04:47:19 AM
Quote
I'm sorry Kukki, I don't understand what you're saying

Kukki was trying to say something like: I once had a fingerlicking original real deal
spotless MARKER BEACON LIGHT and I accidently sold it to someone
who I can't remember who it was (come on D... ) and now I'm
desperately looking for another top as I still have the base for it .... .....


Gentlemen I have got the mark Becon head, took me over a year to locate it again, as I accidently sold the 4 I had.

What I want to say to you RD is that if you need the original Light for the mark becon light I have one (its the same as the JFS, EPU run light and the 3 landing gear lights) BUT I have only the head as the run lights have. I have not any spare Mark becon heads.

It was just if you wanted a real light there RD, and someday the head will show up and its just
shifting it then.

Hope you understand.

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on January 27, 2009, 05:18:23 AM

Ray uses a 5 inch display which is behind the CP and he had to cut through the wood CP. Then he placed his EHSI bezel on top of the opening.
I don't really like that because I feel the difference between the top of the bezel and the screen is too deep.

You're wrong there Olivier, the top of the CP is from 1,5 mm aluminium, so the display is very close to the bezel!
The 5 " TFT is actualy 1 mm behind the alu frontplate, just enough space for the wires of the encoders.

(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/RGPeters/EHSIon.jpg)
The space between the TFT and the bezel is no problem at all.

The TV-out works perfect with mine and Danny's and is A LOT cheaper than a VGA (paid only $ 50,- for it...)

But i like the 3.5" also a lot !

It's great that we share our ideas and solutions on the forum, so there's always a solution that fits the need.

Raymond
Hey Kukki!
I think you mean Rayman's Marker Beacon, don't you? RD's looks real to me. I have a real lamp with no head so if he doesn't want it, I'll take it.
Warmly lit regards,
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 27, 2009, 05:22:19 AM
Yep I think Nigel's  right

Here's mine actually:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/592_eHSI.jpg)

Looks good enough for me so I don't need a replacement, but thanks for the offer Kukki :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on January 27, 2009, 05:36:46 AM
Damn gents, my mistake, I thought it was your pit RD. Sorry.
Thats why I offerd the light, but you have one.

Sorry for the mistake gents.  :DOH:

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: fyreb0t on January 30, 2009, 09:50:28 AM

[/quote]
What's up with your keyboard ? It drops a couple of letters each word you type !
[/quote]


airdance,
my keyboard is fine, i am just trying to be cool as i cannot have red dog's pit.  :(
 fyrb0t  :brickwall:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 30, 2009, 01:11:32 PM
airdance,
my keyboard is fine, i am just trying to be cool as i cannot have red dog's pit.  :(
 fyrb0t  :brickwall:
Excellent ;)

The thing is that many of us do not speak English as our native language. So you can imagine that shortening your words like your to yr and have to hav might confuse quite a few people here. Also, the chances of being misunderstood increase considerably ;)

Thanks for thinking of us !
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 10, 2009, 08:38:47 AM
Though I'd share some of my evening/night joy ...
Although I balance my Online flights very carefully with my family, here's a picture of a return home after a long mission.

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/601_cruising_cadre.jpg)

Fuel was a concern, so I set the CRUS ded page, Mode selected the home steerpoint and I was climbing to optimum altitude (right caret) in hud, maintaining buster in the climb. Once I'd reach that altitude, I would fly the speed caret as well and let me gently fly back to homebase

Falcon is a great sim, after 10 years of intense flying, there are so many things left to learn ....
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on February 10, 2009, 09:01:05 AM
WOW Olivier!

Thanks... now I'm all depress.  :DOH:

I'm so near of doing that in my pit... yet so far still!

It's great that you enjoy some flying time in your pit.
That's the whole point in this insane and expensive hobby. :clap:

Keep it up my friend!!! ;)
 :hail:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on February 10, 2009, 12:57:05 PM
 :o

Weery nice RD!!!

GUN
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: heines on March 24, 2009, 04:38:34 AM
happy B-day mate  :thumbsup:

and the best wishes   :beer:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on March 24, 2009, 08:10:30 AM
Bon anniversaire Olivier!
 :bday:

Have a great birthday and best wishes!
Stephane.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on March 24, 2009, 10:06:34 AM
 :bday: Olivier !

 :balloons: :balloons: :balloons:


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Helio Estrela on March 24, 2009, 10:14:34 AM
happy birthday
salute!!
Helio
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on March 24, 2009, 12:27:28 PM
Happy Bday my friend :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: zypo on March 24, 2009, 01:28:12 PM
Happy birthday, Olivier ! :yihaw:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Loulou on March 24, 2009, 02:15:08 PM
 :clap: Happy Bday Olivier  :beer:   Have a nice day and party  :cheerleader:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Falcas on March 24, 2009, 02:16:30 PM
Gefeliciteerd met je verjaardag RD!!!! :yihaw:  :beer2:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 24, 2009, 03:55:36 PM
Thank you, merci , dank U :)

kids I tell you, we're just a bunch of kids with big guys toys  :-P
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 26, 2009, 05:50:13 AM
Birthday present from Ribbs and Dunk, thanks guys

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/610_inclinedstick_dual.jpg)

My stick is not tilted forward a few degrees :) and it's way more confortable ...

There is a tutorial on how to install the COugar Stick adaptor:
http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=4590.msg66092#msg66092
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Feathers on March 26, 2009, 10:17:41 AM
RD,
You have a great looking pit setup, nice work.
That stick mod looks great too.  I'm looking forward to getting my stick adapter part back from Dunk.
Take care,
Jim


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on March 26, 2009, 11:40:02 AM
Nice update RD... I?m sure you love it!

Excellent photo  :thumbsup:

GUN
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: fyreb0t on April 14, 2009, 02:12:30 PM
Excellent ;)

The thing is that many of us do not speak English as our native language. So you can imagine that shortening your words like your to yr and have to hav might confuse quite a few people here. Also, the chances of being misunderstood increase considerably ;)

Thanks for thinking of us !

Airdance,
sorry about that airdance, i did not know that people were confused and misunderstood  :DOH: i am just so used to sending text on my mobile phone that way. i will try to clean it up.... :-[

fyrb0t
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 15, 2009, 04:03:20 AM
About time an old pappy thread comes back from the third page :)

Once again, a package from Indiana was delivered. Looks like I'll be busy in the next few days

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/614_newparts.jpg)
The HUD mounts will be purely decorative, but that old block HUD is really brute and heavy.
The EHSI casing, you can feel Mike's sweated a lot on that little bugguer.
The stickers are very nice :) My wife will kill me when she finds out all the places where I sticked them. The pit plate is a really nice touch for the cockpit
The ICP is a real one. I need to see if I can sort out the connections and if I can I'll be using it for my desktop pit.

The plan is
1. work on the current pit right side to enable the Right instrument stack with Mike's part and Arend's electronic - without forgetting Falcas software :)
2. Build the right cockpit wall so I can implement both armrest, finally
3. Start building the desktop pit.

I'm glad to be building again, I've been flying a lot lately and this really the essence of pitbuilding for me. But building is fun too.
Well, while flying I built a 3 stories barbie house for my daughter with lights and all the stuff, so I actulally never left building :)

Anyway, I'll update my wish lists as I'll be looking for some stuff in the coming weeks, such as some right side walls lights casing for instance  ;)

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 20, 2009, 12:53:14 PM
I started installing the Aircore solution From White-Eagle and falcas:

What you get is a USB board (and component) that will interface the right instrument stack.
A backlighted (green or white) PCB with 4 aircores installed.
That PCB with aircore is screwed to a faceplate rendering backlight which in turn is meant to be screwed on Mike acrylic right instrument stack.
You also get a set of laser cut plexi needles to be assembled and place on the aircore shaft.
All you need beside that is a USB cable & 5v
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/615_aic.jpg)
There's also an extra module to interface the Fuel Flow with 2 osrams from the same PCB, more on this later.

Assembling the needles needs a bit of patience but the way they are precut makes our life very easy. First paint the needles white, then paint the top center covers black, remove the tape and the painted needles fall from their support.
From there you glue (cyano) the PVC tube inside the center of the needle, glue the black painted center top on the needle and when all is well dry, insert the PVC tube into the aircore shaft.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/616_aic.jpg)

In my case, I had to convert a bit Mike's part to fit my pit but the holes matches Arend's PCB holes and the two parts are easily screwed together. Care must be taken to get enough clearance between the needles and the transparent top
of the gauge so the needle can freely rotate.

Here's the result once assembled. the old part was removed from my pit and soon to bze replaced with the new aircore parts.
More on the software soon.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/617_right-instr.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on July 20, 2009, 01:03:22 PM
Wow RD, Nice post.
I didnt know the kit was available yet?

I really looks good, and suits my desktop pit very well :-)

Any price on the kit.

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on July 20, 2009, 01:11:10 PM
RD,
Is that ICP the one you need the 15 pin for? I am getting a price today and will try a group buy for the 31 and the 15. I will start a new thread as soon as I have the info.
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 20, 2009, 03:23:43 PM
Kukki,
the kit will be available in September

Nigel,
Yep, the 15 pin connector I need is for the backseat ICP, I still have to figure out the wiring
Don't commit to anything, I'm not ready to spend a lot of money on a stupid connector when I can do one myself I'm interested in the price but if it's too exagerated, I'll pass. When I read the price Kukki paid for his, I fell off my chair :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 21, 2009, 07:21:56 AM
There's an option to interface the Fuel Flow with 2 OSRAMS on the aircore main PCB. I couldn't let it go unused.
I still have a proto PCB giving me some trouble and I lack the adaptor part to make Mike's FF bezel fit correctly. Nevertheless, since the pit was open, I found a way to install it in place, although much thicker than the original.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/618_ff.jpg)

From there, both new components were installed in the pit, replacing the dummy parts I used till now.
The main aircore PCB is placed inside the main front glareshield as all the rest of the boards. That will ensure that the cables lenght are kept to a minimum. (yet a bit longer than what Arend provided ... :) He's dutch so the shorter the cables he provides, the better  :harhar:
Of course I had to make new ones about 3 times longer.  :-P
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/619_inpit.jpg)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/620_inpit.jpg)

The part fit nicely together, a nice thing since some come from Holland, some from Indiana and other are real ones and some stuff is made out of wood in Belgium.
So well done all parties involved
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Cannon on July 21, 2009, 10:47:25 AM
Very Nice man,  I want to see a vid of those needles moving!!!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Falcas on July 22, 2009, 04:23:03 AM
Hi,

As Arend is almost back from vacation work will continue very soon again ;-)
A totally new PCB has been designed for the FF already. With the new PCB, the FF bezel will fit as it should. This way the bezel will be against the cockpit and the pcb will be (inside) behind the cockpit plate.

Gr Falcas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on July 22, 2009, 04:59:41 AM
Nice work gents.
I know there is a 6 segment osram, is that better to use then 2x4segment osrams? for the FF.
(After looking afte it, I might be wrong about the 6 segment osrams) sorry.

The work you are doing is just great  :thumbsup:

Im in for a complete set when you are up for orders :-)

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: white-eagle on July 23, 2009, 03:16:38 PM
Thanks Olivier for your beta update.

I am back from my hollidays (sure like Corsica) and am waiting for the final pcb's to arrive next week.

As Falcas stated, the fuelflow pcb and the pcb that holds the aircores are fully redesigned. I will get you a new set after assembly and receiving plates from Mike.
Also the set needs a 12 volts supply, not a 5volt one.
Aircores are NOT included in the package. Since most VP visitors participated in the group buy I assume most of you have them. For the ones missing them I have some for sale.

Olivier, I will get you a final release set after YOUR hollidays and if that tests out ok, orders can be taken.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 23, 2009, 03:47:51 PM
sorry about the voltage mistake  :-[ it's indeed 12v
By the way, i'm cancelling my holidays :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on August 24, 2009, 05:42:07 PM
Here's the video ...  finally :)

aircores in F-16 Viperpit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axj1C6eIyxM#)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on August 24, 2009, 06:34:04 PM
Great vid ! Thanks RD :) That was fun to watch ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Dunk on August 25, 2009, 12:45:55 AM
That is just AWESOME!!! :bounce2:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on August 25, 2009, 08:27:39 AM
Very impressive work!

Congratulation guys!!!
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: badboy31 on August 25, 2009, 09:15:39 AM
that is very nice done Olivier  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Tom
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Skins on August 25, 2009, 11:26:11 AM
 :beer: I liked it so mucg I watched it twice!


Skins
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on August 25, 2009, 04:05:09 PM
Great vid RD.
Really a nice pit you got there.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Killratio on August 25, 2009, 11:38:21 PM
Looks fantastic Olivier, congrats!!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 28, 2010, 09:20:43 AM
Quote
Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.  


Yeah yeah, about time I update I know :)
I have been waiting for my OLED DED ordered from Ghost to arrive to make hard needed maintenance on the pit, but the DED is taking too much time to be delivered.
I can't wait anymore.

I finally was able to get my encoders working through a BU0836X and I replaced my pulse switches for the HSI CRS and HSI HDG with those more reliable encoders. While being there, I also added encoders on the Altimeter and the machmeter. One day we'll need those two, so I'm ready. The machmeter is already set from MFDE as speed indexes, visual aid to maintain a constant speed and the altimeter will be needed for pressure.

And while being there, I replaced my makeshift plastic EHSI bezel with Mike pro bezel. Much more good looking than my own :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/626_EHSI.jpg)

Another item I needed to work on was to integrate correctly the AIC fuel flowinto the front panel. When I initially built the front panel, I didn't make the FF hole. So I had to make it now so the AIC osrams can be encased correctly. Mike's bezel has been adapted and the instruments remains in place with screws instead than blue tack... Finally
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/625_FF.jpg)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/627_FFin.jpg)

As you can see, I use the rocker swoitches on my Mfds for radio coms, those are the only left functions I need a keyboard for. Most of them now are on the MFDS as well, saves a lot of hassles.

Finally, was the front panel was ripped open, I removed my RWR UCC and installed an extra 3.5 inch from avionicsLCD and made an unrealistic TTD bezel. I hesitated for a long time between installing the full TTD and swapping my TWP but I finally decided against it, keeping the TTD style casing for my desktop pit.
The TTD will be implemented from MFDE and it really give an edge while flying with all those extra info from the std RWR. I just love it
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/628_TTDin.jpg)   

Falcongauges and EHSI from Ghost have now been removed and I?m using only MFDE to export all the gauges: Machmeter, Altitude (digital), VVi, ADI, AOA, EHSI, TTD
The UCC will slowly also be replaced by AIC; which I consider as the sequel to the UCC.
At this point, the AIC is only present on the front panel but I hope soon on the left&right side as well

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/629_CP.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String2054 on February 28, 2010, 09:51:57 AM
Great update Red>>>  :clap:

It amazes me that no PIT will ever be finished. Just like a real aircraft, anything mechanical takes maintenance and today with all the new parts available; upgrades for the PIT builder could be endless. This is a good thing as we are all PIT builders and flyers as well.

Inspiring work and I am sure you are enjoying the upgrades. You are in the perfect position having a great PIT that you can fly, maintain and upgrade.

 :beer:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on February 28, 2010, 10:52:11 AM
Looks awesome Oliver :) !

I love the EHSI, I can't wait to get mine from Mike and get some money to buy screens.

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: alShaheen on February 28, 2010, 11:08:25 AM
Just to make the 1001 replies..!!! (like in 1001 Arabian Nights.. yeah who cares  :whocares:)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on February 28, 2010, 11:23:00 AM
Super great work RD, it must be a good feeling to fly in with all those updates, noe you just need a full working hud and then a dome  :wacko: hehe  we will be there some day.

 :thumbsup:

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on February 28, 2010, 04:03:29 PM
RD are you going to put a blank plate for the MODE switch?
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lightning on February 28, 2010, 09:36:23 PM
Looks great, RD!  For me, that's a really nice thing to see, MFDE in a full pit.  Great update, as always!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Apex on March 01, 2010, 03:14:20 AM
Hi Red Dog,

Great update!

Are you running MFDE on a separate PC over Network or all on one PC with Falcon?

Regards,
Andr
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on March 01, 2010, 04:37:31 AM
Quote
You are in the perfect position having a great PIT that you can fly, maintain and upgrade
Very true String. I must confess I enjoy flying MP more than pitbuilding now :) But every good tool has to undergo maintenance and thus ground it's (v)pilot :)
I didn't call it finished yet. I still have a few things to do on the right console like placing the vynil wall and the arm rests. But indeed, the pit has been in a very good flying state for the last 18 months.
And I enjoy it immensely


Quote
I love the EHSI, I can't wait to get mine from Mike and get some money to buy screens.
Salut Cl?ment.
Mike's work is top notch. Honestly I don't know where this hobby would be without him and a few others :) Thank you gents

Quote
Super great work RD, it must be a good feeling to fly in with all those updates, noe you just need a full working hud and then a dome
Nan Kukki, you know me :)
A working hud is more of a nuisance in falcon than anything else. I do have the HUD and it's a nice object to place on the pit when not in use. But as the red flags, I remove it before flying.
The HUD in the 3D pit makes it perfect for me.

Quote
RD are you going to put a blank plate for the MODE switch?
No Nigel, you know that I'm no realism freak (Well I am - but not in the same ways as some of you :) )
I love the knob 100x more then the M pushbuttons. I had both system active in my pit for the last 6 months and I only use the knob.
It gives a way more reliable HSI mode at a glance, where the M doesn't do such a good job. I'll stick with the INSTR mode panel.
Same for the TTD, the TTD should be there with the TWA and TWP, yet I don't really care and use the extra data the TTD gives me in flight.
My pit is a hybrid anyway, modelled after what's implemented in Falcon code (block52) and painted black as a MLU ;)

Quote
For me, that's a really nice thing to see, MFDE in a full pit.

It's the least I can do Dave. I intend to make a few videos soon, as soon as I can get a few extra DV camera :)

Quote
Are you running MFDE on a separate PC over Network or all on one PC with Falcon?
I run the whole on a single computer. I have been a fervent defensor of that philosophy for a very long time. The road hasn't been always easy and I had my share of FPS issues.
But I lately updated my CPU from a 2.4 to a 3 Ghz (not overclocked, but it's possible to do very easily, so I have some reserve) and that was the trick to boost Falcon.
I want to limit to the maximum the number of sofware required to run the pit, currently:
AIC - UCC - TIR - MFDE are all that are required before launching F4. And soon the AIC and UCC will merge.
The Cougar, the two Xkeys and the 2 Leobodnar ministicks are transparent, they always work as advertised as soon as I launch falcon.
The least different software you have, the least problem :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on March 01, 2010, 10:44:33 AM
Great update, RD!

I fully agree with you, that not everything has to be 100% realistic, I guess there are no F-16s that are the same...

greetings
michi
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 18, 2010, 02:37:29 PM
Looks Like Pitbuilding season is On again... Or at least the bug starts to itch me  :)

Anyway, thanks to a generous offer from my 87th mate Kukki (sidewall lights), I now have all it takes to start working on the right sidewall
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/630_rightwall.jpg)
The wall is from Dunk, I'll need to cut it to make it fit my pit. The great thing is that you can very easily see where the goodies were placed from the mould

I didn't mean to start right away but somehow I couldn't resist.. so I trimmed the vinyl and started fitting some goodies on the wall
First the "picoti" technique to hole the lights, then securing them and the SEAT ADJ switch and the O2 tube older and I'm on the tracks again.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/631_rightwall.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/632_rightwall.jpg)

Since a good thing never comes alone, the OLED DED finally arrived. I'm anxious to test that one and I intend to write a full review of this one in the coming days.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/633_OledDED.jpg)

And while I was busy I dryfitted what will be the backbone of my slow to come but future desktop cockpit featureing a backseat F16 :)
It's quite bent, but I love that part:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/634_backseat_glareshield.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: 101-Douxx on April 18, 2010, 07:12:07 PM
Really nice!
 :thumbsup:

So you have the BUG to close your side pit??? :whistle:

It will be nice, Im sure.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 19, 2010, 03:09:42 AM
No Steph,

I'm not doing a full shell. I'm just placing the right sidewall because I need it to support the wrist rest.
The sidewall will be cut at the yellow tape marker.
I wouldn't have closed the left side either if it wasn't for supporting the throttle gate.
My pit will remain like it was planned. This design is IMHO the best one around for limited pitroom! And it's damn easy to get into as well :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: magoo on April 19, 2010, 03:47:38 AM
......I wouldn't have closed the left side either if it wasn't for supporting the throttle gate.
.......


I know what you mean RD, if I had to redo my  throttle gate I would shoot myself..... 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 27, 2010, 03:35:43 AM
Anyone's gor good picture of the internal right frame?
I'm specifically looking at how the right sidewall is attached and how both wrist rest and arm rests are secure in place. Obviously the vinyl sidewall can't support them alone, I need a structure in there?

All help appreciated ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on April 27, 2010, 04:10:27 AM
Olivier,
The first pic below shows you the wrist rest mount in a real jet. The arm rest mount is right aft of it but not visible. The second pic below is Jay's real sidewall set where you can see the holes I talk about next. The link here
http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=3560.660
is to my thread where I mounted mine like the real one. The trainer came with the mounts you see that are copied from a real jet with the difference being that they purposely made them slightly different so that the replica parts could not be installed in a real jet. The trainer versions have all perpendicular sides where the real ones are less or more than 90?.
   The trainer mount for the wrist rest as you can see is thin and does not have a bottom mount so I made my own. The real rest goes through a hole cut in the sidewall (it's there on Dunk's too) and is tightened from a panel outside the plane and through a hole in the plastic underneath. So is the arm rest and there is an access panel on the trainer for this purpose. The arm rest also goes through a hole in the sidewall and is tightened from the bottom through a hole in the plastic sidewall, also in Dunk's and visible in your pic above. In looking back at my build thread pics, I see that I never finished showing how the wrist rest or arm rest is mounted. Sorry. I am switching out to real sidewalls but I am traveling till Monday when I can post some better pics. Hope this helps.
Nigel

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm64/NigelTufnel11/right_frame-1.jpg)

(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm64/NigelTufnel11/SIDEWALLS.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on April 27, 2010, 04:17:03 AM
All the holes for these are visible in the pic you posted of Dunk's sidewalls so if you follow and cut out those shapes and build mounts like the ones in the pics I posted here and in my build thread, you will be able to duplicate the exact spot where they mount in the real airplane. The ribs in the trainer are in the same spots as the real plane so the pics are valid for reference. Knowing your fabrication skills Olivier, you can easily make some mounts that will be superb.
Here is a pic of the arm rest mount.
(http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm64/NigelTufnel11/L1050593.jpg)
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on April 27, 2010, 05:06:38 AM
Oh, you asked about how the actual plastic sidewalls are mounted. You can see in the first pic of the real jet and in some more pics here:
http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=433.0
that they are held on by tabs called nutplates or clipnuts. It is a clip with a nut floating in a bracket that goes in the sheet metal. If you look in these pics you can see them. Again, if you need better pics I will get them for you Monday. The actual screws are #8-32 and are placed through what are called Tinnerman washers or sometimes countersunk washers. Here is a link to a catalog with pics.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/graphics/A3236-012-24A.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/hapages/nas549washers.php&h=260&w=325&sz=87&tbnid=j1NonZs6o63eWM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcountersunk%2Bwashers&usg=__PpjWj1_SYuUPtmfaF-lAPnKuBjI=&ei=iqnWS-O0BZK4swPxxrmjAg&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=6&ct=image&ved=0CCYQ9QEwBQ
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 27, 2010, 05:39:47 AM
Thank you Nigel :) I knew you'd pop here, thanks Bud
i'll study all this and come back to you. I think my arm rests are from trainer as well, not sure yet, i'll have to check that. But I guess I already have a  lot of info to chew on

Cheers mate
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on April 27, 2010, 05:45:57 AM
Olivier
Your wrist rest could be trainer but that arm rest is real. That wrist rest base looks like it would fit the mount in my trainer exactly. Hmmm...
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 27, 2010, 01:24:53 PM
Wanna Swap?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 01, 2010, 03:33:14 PM
Right,

I wanted to test out my new Ghost Oled ded for speed. The UCC always gave me mucho satisfaction as far as refresh was concerned. It was far from ideal because of me being lazy and never replaced that 45? mirror with a prism or even a first surface layer mirror. Still it worked flawlessly for the past 5+ years I have been using it.
Here are two DEDs reading the same shared mem section:

#Invalid YouTube Link#

There's no doubt OLed is much more crisp and clear and beats the UCC 1000 to 1 now. I'm happy to have a new ded and this one will find its way in my pit before the end of the week end.
The software needs some more work (UCC is way more convenient to setup) but once running, it runs fine all the way. I'm sure Danny will come with updates soon.
 
It would be really interesting to have the same video taken with martin and Ghost DED :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 31, 2010, 06:37:13 PM
Found some old video on my HD :)
First time i took the pit out for an event



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6Ap4JN-taU

edited in youtube link, mike
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on October 31, 2010, 10:55:43 PM
Way cool RD, there is some guy in the video flying your pit that looks like you but way better looking and was speaking pseudo- french.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 04, 2010, 02:35:41 PM
he's a good friend of mine Nigel  ;)

Looks like my stick has a new shape !!
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/636_warthog_FCC2.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/637_warthog_FCC2.jpg)

I have been flying it for a while now, but I can finally show it.
Works like a charm
 :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on November 04, 2010, 03:01:15 PM
Now, that is "porn" - in it?s own way  :thumbsup:

The real stuff is naturally banned.

Good share RD... thank?s.

TOR
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 18, 2010, 03:55:22 AM
Clearing the stash, I found two very old leftovers: the molded Stick & throttle protection case.
I have them for a very long while but always discared them because they are block 10 or 15 and there's no CMS switch  bump on the cover.

But having the warthog firmly installed in the pit now, I decided to give it a go and convert them for installation in my pit.

The throttle is easy, just need the hard foam cut here and there to allow the radioswitch to fit inside and the two cover halves will fit nicely around the Cougar throttle.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/638_throttlecover.jpg)

As said avove, the stick cover will need more surgery.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/639_stickcover.jpg)
The left side of the cover has to be bored through and a oustide casing rebuild to allow the CMS switch to be encased. So I started by drilling through the cover then I used plasticard, filler, superglue, sand, sand, sand, sugerglue, sand, mastic sand ... to create the bump ...
It's a little bit too square for now but you get the picture
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/640_stickcover.jpg)

Minor details still needs to be worked out, but both cover will receive a white primer then a coat of red paint.
I'll probably also add some FCC2 plaque for the stick cover and the smaller Cougar throttle plate on the throttle cover.
I'll maybe custom them a bit more ...

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 29, 2010, 03:08:58 PM
I finally decided to proceed to a long awaited overhaul on the right console.

The right console has been in the garage for a while waiting for a chance to be updated. That means no flying for the last weeks and a few more to come but it will be worth it in the long run.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/641_rightside.jpg)
The plan is to install the AIC right section, add the sidewall and it's vinyl counterpart, finally install those arm&wrist rests and if I feel strong enough, maybe install the panels backlight with the EL sheets

First the dummies instrument are removed and the AIC right console module will be fully installed, replacing the UCC lightboard in there interfacing the Caution panel (more to follow on this later)
The big challenge there is this:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/642_rightside.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/643_rightside_internal.jpg)
The internal of the console was converted from a A to a C model, remember a few years back :
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/135_auxright_mod6.jpg)
Well, I didn't polish the internal of course back then, and i'm paying it now  :D

Anyway, since the AIC instrument faceplates make use of the screw holes, i'll need to bore them through, without breaking the past modifications and even worse, i'll need to cut some metal inside the aux console so the faceplate fit internally :)  That's the reason why this work needed to be done downstairs with all precious components removed from the console.

Let's first dryfit all the faceplate on the console to bore the holes for the screws...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/644_rightside_bezel.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 29, 2010, 03:17:46 PM
Question :

Anyone has the angle in green on that picture?
That's the support for the wrist rest. I almost placed it horizontally but realized thanks to Nigel's report that it shouldn't

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/645_angle_Wrist.jpg)

:?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on December 29, 2010, 03:21:11 PM
Question :

Anyone has the angle in green on that picture?......

Excellent query  :thumbsup:..... perhaps angles/dims for mounting the "armrest" could be supplied as well!??

TOR
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on December 29, 2010, 03:34:49 PM
Does this help ?

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/108Peten/SSC_rest_dim.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on December 29, 2010, 06:31:33 PM
Hey RD!!
I will measure this as best I can tonight. You have a real arm rest, not a trainer, correct? They mount very differently. Ultimately the correct angle is what matters but the real arm rest has a strange shape as you may have found out by now. The "L" shape in the bracket is not 90? and this just adds to the aggro. But it will soon become your favorite part of the pit is my guess.
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 30, 2010, 05:03:11 AM
Thanks Nigel

No idea as the source of the elbow rest. it seems to be a 90? angle, but it also seems to be bent :)
Anyway, I guess we can consider that's a right angle: if I bend it a little more :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/647_angle_writsrest.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 30, 2010, 05:13:09 AM
In the meantime, all AIC instruments have been assembled and are ready to be included:

Those are really jewels. Especially the Fuel QTY indicator. That is IMHO the pinnacle of Arend's work.
I screwed up my water slide decals for the Aft needle, so I'll use a sticker until I can reprint them at work.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/646_AIC_right_instr.jpg)

I'll re use my old bezel to complete the front face of the instrument. Instead of having the tube protruding from the aux console as before, i added some guides inside the outer bezel so they insert perfectly in the console holes.
The Cabin pressure bezel was kindly donated by a member of Viperpit, it fits perfectly the AIC parts and it's a great and easy solution. My sincere thanks to him :)

The compass was a challenge but luckily Arend helped me do it (he screwed his own before, so i was safe to benefit from his experience.)
First the liquid has been removed, of course I spilled it everywhere while Arend saw it coming ;)
Then the component completely removed and the compass rose was modified to allow the aircore axis to be inserted on its center.
I coudln't remove the original centring pin which was harder than my drills so I drilled around and glued a piece of plastic on top of the remaining part, drilling a fitting hole in there instead.
The small PCB will be flatly inserted in the compas casing and that's it.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Taipan on December 30, 2010, 05:58:10 AM
Hey RD
Did you open the compass from the front or back ( or both ) ?

I have my gear at the post office today - can't wait. Yours look awesome

Thanks
T
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 30, 2010, 06:25:39 AM
Taipan,

to release the fluid, un screw the top bolt
Once emptied, the compass is opened from behind, but the bottom plate on the front is also opened to release the main shaft of the compass
The backlight bulbs are removed from the front top plate and at the upper edge of the bezel

Si, it's opened from all sides :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Taipan on December 30, 2010, 06:41:15 AM
 :beer:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Reboot on December 30, 2010, 06:56:35 AM
Hey RD
Did you open the compass from the front or back ( or both ) ?
to release the fluid, un screw the top bolt
Once emptied, the compass is opened from behind,  :)
:beer:

I just love how you guys work,
                 Red Dog is up to his neck in work, but still finds the time to help someone out,

       Beautiful 


                                                           :vprules:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on December 30, 2010, 12:40:33 PM
Thanks Nigel

No idea as the source of the elbow rest. it seems to be a 90? angle, but it also seems to be bent :)
Anyway, I guess we can consider that's a right angle: if I bend it a little more :)
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/647_angle_writsrest.jpg)

Hi Olivier!

Got me curious there mate.... I think the "bending" is deliberate. Same shows clearly on mine, even with my age-affected eyesight.
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q159/gunnair/m_PICT8497.jpg)

... but I also clearly notice that the angle is not 90 degrees... but of course I had to copy your method to be sure...
(http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q159/gunnair/m_PICT8499-edit.jpg)

I put my "scale" to slide along the left blue line, untill it landed at a point around the blue arrow.

Honestly I only find this interesting with regards to the originality of parts/structures.

Mountingwise in the pit, I will go for a correct mount of the "horizontal" screws/bolts, and then tighten up the other two afterwards.

2 cent?s  ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on December 30, 2010, 05:53:49 PM
TOR, yours looks original. RD, yours is real but I think yours has been bent to try and straighten it. Mine looks like TOR's and is an acute angle. I made it work but I am always afraid of trying to bend aluminum.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on December 31, 2010, 05:46:24 PM
Mine is the same as TOR's. My AIC stuff arrived from Arend Christmas Eve, Keep the installation documented Olivier, so I may glean anything from it. I also have an "A" aux console, so will have to modify it. I may just CNC a new faceplate for the unit to be done with it.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 01, 2011, 06:58:59 AM
Will do Mike, and I think indeed a new faceplate is the way to go.

In the meantime, here's the Caution panel dilemma.

My real caution panel was heavily modified to be used with the UCC and leds. I installed two leds per caution light back a few years ago.
The AIC on the other hand has a dedicated PCB for the caution panel, but made to fit Mike's panel.
I wanted to know if it would be suitable to a real caution panel.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/648_AICcaution.jpg)

First the PCB fits perfectly the side guides inside the real caution panel, allowing to slide down while staying aligned. Unfortunately, those guides are too far from the caution light to be used correctly by avoiding disruptive light distribution.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/649_AICcaution.jpg)

I kept the innards of the caution lights and replaced the bulbs in there with 5mm white leds. To use the AIC lighboard in the caution panel, I would need to the whole grey part but then the faceplate doesn't really remain in place in the caution panel. A solution could be easily found for that problem, but light distribution might not be perfect...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/650_AICcaution.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/651_AICcaution.jpg)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/652_AICcaution.jpg)

The dedicated lightboard though is perfectly aligned vertically with the 4 rows of lights.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/653_AICcaution.jpg)
When inserted into the caution panel casing though, the lightboard sits too high and the bottom row of the lights are misaligned with the bottom row of caution lights.
Again an easy solution would be to gently sand the PCB or make a trench in the bottom plate of the Caution panel casing, so nothing we can?t deal with here.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/654_AICcaution.jpg)
Once the bottom row is correctly aligned, all rows remain perfectly aligned.

So is the AIC caution lightboard suitable for a real warning panel?
I?d say yes pending some modifications:
1.   Remove all original innards.
2.   Cut the bottom of the PCB or make a trench in the bottom plate of the casing.
3.   Place the PCB inside the casing, not in the side guides, but the closest to the faceplate
4.   Find a way to keep the light faceplate attached in the warning light front casing.
5.   You might have to create a supplemental part to maximise light distribution.

With all that in mind, and because I already have my leds firmly in there and being very happy with my light distribution, I decided to simply not use the AIC dedicated lightboard and instead use a regular lightboard to reuse my existing leds.
Thanks to a flexible initial design, all cockpit philosophy are compatible with the AIC 

Oh, and By the way, Happy New year to all.

 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: raptor on January 01, 2011, 09:40:12 AM
Great info, thanks m8!  :thumbsup:

Happy year u 2!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Falcas on January 02, 2011, 09:48:57 AM
Hi RD,

A much better way would be to take out the LEDs from the AIC board. Then directly connect the LEDs that you already have in the caution panel to the AIC board. You already have that wire up anyway.

It will take you some time, but then you have everything nice and packed in the caution panel box.
Only 1 flat cable going from the USB controller to the caution panel.

Gr Falcas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 02, 2011, 12:26:35 PM
Yep Falcas, that would be nice :)
But since I have 2 leds and the dedicated lightboard only has 1 led for each caution light, Wouldn't I also need to change the resistor value, which isn't easy to do on the dedicated lightboard?
I still want my caution lights to be quite bright !
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on January 02, 2011, 03:11:33 PM
. I also have an "A" aux console, so will have to modify it. I may just CNC a new faceplate for the unit to be done with it.
This is the best solution IMHO. Then you only need a tiny bit of Bondo along the edge. But you do need a CNC mill. Not to hijack, sorry Olivier.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on January 02, 2011, 03:23:12 PM
Olivier
Since the original panel was designed for two lamps, I think you already have the optimum setup. If you could wire it straight to Arends board that would be cool but you are right about the resistors. That would be a lot of work for very little gain.
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Falcas on January 02, 2011, 03:31:14 PM
Yep Falcas, that would be nice :)
But since I have 2 leds and the dedicated lightboard only has 1 led for each caution light, Wouldn't I also need to change the resistor value, which isn't easy to do on the dedicated lightboard?
I still want my caution lights to be quite bright !

Connecting two LED to one port on that board won't damage the board.
Also the light will most probably not get less.
So just give it a try and see how the brightness is.

Gr Falcas

ps, looking at your pics, I might want to buy that caution panel that is on ebay right now ;-)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on January 02, 2011, 04:22:05 PM
Do it, Falcas!!!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: white-eagle on January 02, 2011, 05:26:31 PM
Olivier,

Just try connecting two leds to one channel and see how the intensity works out.
You have a good change it will work out ok, if not.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 03, 2011, 03:25:37 AM
Rgr gents, thanks for the advices, i'll give it a try and see how it work.
Nigel,
I'm like you, I don't mind those hijack at all  :-\
Mod's politics makes the threads go too silent if you ask me  :harhar:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 03, 2011, 09:52:22 AM
Hey gents,

Anyone jhas some sort of instruction for that one?
it's a PWM dimmer from Beta Innovation if I recall correctly.
I think i bought it to dim the EL sheets. but I can't find the manual, if there's such thing for it?

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/657_PWM_leo.jpg)
Any advise? Link to a manual?

All comments welcome
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on January 03, 2011, 10:10:53 AM
Email sent

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 04, 2011, 12:05:01 PM
Thanks Kukki,
Any one could confirm that it's suitable for the EL sheets?
From the PDf, it's a 12v 10PWM channels at 500mA each.
I can parallel a few of them but the question is how many mA does each El sheet draw?
Depending on their size?

Any ideas genst?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: bnepethomas on January 04, 2011, 04:54:05 PM
Here's an indirect answer, I'm using a dimmer from these guys http://fdatasystems.com/Dimmer.htm.  It is rated at 1.5A per channel and I am driving all of the EL sheets in the pit on a single channel, so it isn't a lot.

Cheers

Peter

Thanks Kukki,
Any one could confirm that it's suitable for the EL sheets?
From the PDf, it's a 12v 10PWM channels at 500mA each.
I can parallel a few of them but the question is how many mA does each El sheet draw?
Depending on their size?

Any ideas genst?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 05, 2011, 04:18:48 PM
Thanks Peter, I'll have a look.
So 1.5 A for all. That means I should have plenty with 10 @ 500mA

In the meantime, I'm testing my AIC stuff on the bench before they go into the cockpit :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/659_testingAIC.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on January 06, 2011, 01:14:35 AM
RD,
That PWM will handle the EL's no problem if you spread the load evenly. I had all mine on before I sold the El's and it worked fine.
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 10, 2011, 05:24:21 PM
Let's do it then !!
It might seem insignificant, but seeing something taken back from storage for so long and finally put to a good use is moving :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/660_testingElsheets.jpg)

I'm scared shitless of those because of all the bad stories I heard about them. But the way Mike did organize hios work is great. the connectors looks pretty safe (and flat) the sheets are well laminatiung and matching the panels, the inverter makes almost no noise. I'l damn glad I bought them and i'm pissed off I didn't install them earlier in my pit :)

Anyway, First one is ready, now I need to dim it and install all the inverters and start distributing the load evenly on the PWM

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on January 10, 2011, 07:32:11 PM
That looks great RD, the one thing you have to be careful of is don't let any metal dig a hole in the laminate. I got a panel from a friend where he had put in a switch and tightened the star lock washer down and cut holes right through it. Don't be afraid, you can easily cut and trim them, I did it with a razor and sealed it back up with clear silicone and let it dry 24 hrs. Works great. Also, I once did a Google search and found a company that makes panels that you can cut up with scissors if you need to make custom panels like for the FLCS or any that Mike doesn't make. They look like a good color match and you can use Mike's inverters (hopefully you have spares). They sell them, if not. If you ever need it I will dig up the info.
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on January 11, 2011, 02:46:30 AM
Hi Nigel :-)

I'm interested in that link also.


That looks very Nice Oliver :-) !

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on January 12, 2011, 02:08:14 PM
Check way back earlier in RD's thread and IIRC we did just that... initially. The green is not very close to the EL's I had made. The ones we tested I laser cut , they will shock the living hell out of you which I found out the hard way, this shock is not just a buzz, it's a nasty jolt. Sealing them properly to prevent shock and light degradation is hit and miss with the blank sheets that are cut, plus you have to solder or afix the connectors and they are a real trouble spot and full of headaches. The ones I had made, the connectors are well made and eliminate a bunch of headaches. I suppose one offs for a panel or two would be OK, more than that and your asking for lots of headaches/trouble-shooting or SHOCKS...pretty much why I abandoned the self laser cut route.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on January 12, 2011, 02:09:21 PM
Also, the whole EL set draws very little current, off the top of my head I don't remember. Someone with them all hooked up can do a measurement.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 12, 2011, 02:57:49 PM
Is there any preferred method for blocking the light on the edge of the panels?
Tape? Sticky vinyl paint ?

Right, I've attached 9 inverters aside each other and I'm soldering the red/black wires on a terminal which will give me 3 connectors for the beta innovation PWM.
I plan on having 3 for the right console, 1 for the center console and 6 for the right one. That way, out of the 10 channels I should distribute the load evenly.

The PWM card says max 6Amps. From reading the whoel EL thread, it seems that the whole bunch of Elsheets draw max 2amps. It would be great if someone with them installed could measure them.

Anyway, me needs a few panels from Mike to get even backlight. My real ones are going out of my pit
Nuclear, Elec, UHF and oxygen :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on January 13, 2011, 11:01:05 PM
you can block the light out with black paint. I used acrylic with a brush.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Dunk on January 14, 2011, 12:44:08 AM
Mike what you told me and what Red Dog just said about using black electrical tape worked great for the ones that I had put together.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 14, 2011, 10:51:22 AM
Beta Innovations PWM says to connect an ATX connector? What if I don't have one.
Can someone confirm than in those connectors, yellow is +12v, black are ground and red are 5V?

Thanks
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Reboot on January 14, 2011, 11:02:30 AM
(http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c162/stephencliff/s1-014.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 15, 2011, 04:02:13 AM
Thanks Reboot,

Any Bi PWM user know about this, it seems I'm unable to make it work?
Does the card need 5V as well? I can't see why it would but simple 12v on that ATX connector doesn't do it


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 15, 2011, 12:40:26 PM
Still fighting that PWM card....

Anyway, the good thing is that the right console is almost ready to be sent back upstairs to be attached to the pit again ... Finally.   :cheerleader:

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/661_rightconsole.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/662_rightconsole.jpg)
The vinyl sidewall was placed with the structure for the arm & wrist rests.
24v lights were added as well and connected to the rest of the flood lights circuit.
I made a cache for the PFD screen (still need to paint it in black) which I won't use because it was interfaced with the UCC and since Ghost DED can toggle to the PFD, that's more than enough for me.
I'm thinking that this might be the perfect spot for a UHF frequency lists or something..

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/663_rightconsole.jpg)
All the AIC gauges are also in place and working. I just have to finish the bezels
The warning panel has been completely changed from the UCC to the AIC. I finally didn't use the AIC caution lightboard as unsoldering the leds proved too difficult. Instead I simply changed the 34 pin connector to 16 pin connectors and used a default AIC lightboard. All working fine as well there.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/664_rightconsole.jpg)

On to the backlight of the panels and trying to find a way to dim the backlight of the AIC gauges as well ...
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Peten on January 15, 2011, 01:17:52 PM
Looks reall cool

Asi
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on January 15, 2011, 04:01:08 PM
... I just druiled(?) into your pit RD, sorry :-[

Hope the electronics still are still functionall....

TOR
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 16, 2011, 09:09:08 AM
druiled ?

Here's a step by step EL sheet work.

1. Panel is removed from the console (I was too lazy to put a connector on each panel so the swiches wires are still on the Xkeys daughterboard ...
The lightplate is removed and cleaned (that was necessary)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/665_SNSR_EL.jpg)

2. the EL sheet is put in place and holes checked for fittings.
As you can see the connector of the EL prevents the sheet to rest in place without tension, so I decided to make passthrough for the EL connectors on the panel backplate.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/666_SNSR_EL.jpg)

3. In this case, a simple notch on the side of the backplate will do. On some other panels, the connector is in the middle and in that case, I bore a hole in there. that way the connector is not creating any conflict between the lightplate and the backplate.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/667_SNSR_EL.jpg)

4. the dremel work is covered with electrical tape, you can never be too carefull. The connector is also further insulated.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/668_SNSR_EL.jpg)

5. The EL sheet is replaced and this time it rests without constraint in place. All holes fits and more than enough room for the switch bolts & panel screws.
I also decided to apply thin strips of insulating tape on the edge of the EL sheets to secure it in place on the backplate.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/669_SNSR_EL.jpg)

6. Testing
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/670_SNSR_EL.jpg)

7. And finally the lightplate is replaced and screwed on, & retested before being put back in the pit.
 (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/671_SNSR_EL.jpg)


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on January 16, 2011, 09:15:53 AM
That looks really awesome :-) !

Btw, about the insulating tape on the sides where you did the dremel work. Well that is sure a good idea, but I doubt the paint on the aluminium backplate is insulating so there's no point in putting tape there if you don't do it for the whole backplate I guess, am I wrong :s ?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 16, 2011, 11:25:50 AM
that's just for the connector Cl?ment :)
since it's still slighly bent there, it is a "point of attention, not a critical point, but as I said, better safe than sorry
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on January 16, 2011, 11:50:20 AM
Oh okay allright. I thought the problem was with the seams of the EL sheet and not with the connector.

That blueish green lighting looks so good :O

I wish I could have them before my pit advances or I'll have to disassemble everything again...
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on January 16, 2011, 12:45:38 PM
Any particular reason you put the Cabin Pressure bezel on backwards?   ::)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 16, 2011, 12:51:09 PM
lol nikolas, Just for the fun of scratching my head wondering how to secure the glass ?
or
that was a trick to see if anyone was following closely

but in the end, that's because I didn't think at all about it :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 09, 2011, 06:41:50 AM
I was not looking forward to upgrade the CMDS panel because it was a prototype for the UCC and was a real mess :)
But I was very surprised at how simple the AIC CMDS is. It assembled very quickly and was operationnal in no time, profiting from past experiences and very good thinking from the hardware and software developers of the AIC project.

It was so simple that I decided I needed something more chanllenging and decided to discard the built in AIC backlight capability and replace it with EL sheets.
:)

Anyway, the first step was to spraypaint the AIC CMDS PCB edges in black as it will be used as a panel backplate. Then the switches are moved from Mike's backplate to the AIC PCB. The 4 bank switches are double poles and the extra ones are used to blank the osram displays when the switch is in the OFF position. This is a feature not supported in the shared memory but that's how the stuff works in real. That is planned on the AIC PCB and soldering 2 wires from the switches to the AIC PCB do the trick. Great stuff there gents !!

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/673_AIC_CMDS.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/672_AIC_CMDS.jpg)

The bothering part of adding the EL sheet between the AIC PCB and Mike's CMDS lightplate is the small component on the PCB that becomes quite hot and the soldering point of the AIC connector. those might short the El sheet.
Luckily enough, the CMDS lightplate is shallow and the EL sheet can be taped against it pending some minor modification. that will ensure enough clearance between the AIC PCB and the EL sheet, normally preventing any risk of short.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/674_AIC_CMDS.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/675_AIC_CMDS.jpg) (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/676_AIC_CMDS.jpg)
So I just milled the two area around the red arrows and taped carefully the EL sheet inside the CMDS's lightplate. and closed the CMDS assy after soldering the OSRAM display obviously.

The 4 lights Go - No Go - Dispense ready and Degr have each their connector on the backside of the PCB and those are wired straight to the AIC lightboard.
I'll post a picture of the finished assy in operation soon.

Very nice and easy solution for a complicated and well used panel !!




Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rabbit on February 09, 2011, 07:11:52 AM
I was not looking forward to upgrade the CMDS panel because it was a prototype for the UCC and was a real mess :)
But I was very surprised at how simple the AIC CMDS is. It assembled very quickly and was operationnal in no time, profiting from past experiences and very good thinking from the hardware and software developers of the AIC project.

It was so simple that I decided I needed something more chanllenging and decided to discard the built in AIC backlight capability and replace it with EL sheets.
:)

Anyway, the first step was to spraypaint the AIC CMDS PCB edges in black as it will be used as a panel backplate. Then the switches are moved from Mike's backplate to the AIC PCB. The 4 bank switches are double poles and the extra ones are used to blank the osram displays when the switch is in the OFF position. This is a feature not supported in the shared memory but that's how the stuff works in real. That is planned on the AIC PCB and soldering 2 wires from the switches to the AIC PCB do the trick. Great stuff there gents !!

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/673_AIC_CMDS.jpg) (http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/672_AIC_CMDS.jpg)

The bothering part of adding the EL sheet between the AIC PCB and Mike's CMDS lightplate is the small component on the PCB that becomes quite hot and the soldering point of the AIC connector. those might short the El sheet.
Luckily enough, the CMDS lightplate is shallow and the EL sheet can be taped against it pending some minor modification. that will ensure enough clearance between the AIC PCB and the EL sheet, normally preventing any risk of short.

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/674_AIC_CMDS.jpg)

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/675_AIC_CMDS.jpg) (http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/676_AIC_CMDS.jpg)
So I just milled the two area around the red arrows and taped carefully the EL sheet inside the CMDS's lightplate. and closed the CMDS assy after soldering the OSRAM display obviously.

The 4 lights Go - No Go - Dispense ready and Degr have each their connector on the backside of the PCB and those are wired straight to the AIC lightboard.
I'll post a picture of the finished assy in operation soon.

Very nice and easy solution for a complicated and well used panel !!





Hey Red,

If i may say so thats looking very sharp.


Cheers Wil
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: MrBones on February 09, 2011, 09:36:55 AM
Good job Red Dog!!!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on February 09, 2011, 03:57:15 PM
Olivier,
That looks great. I finally figured out how to use the flags in the Beta Innovations software so that when you assign a flag to the OSRAM's to monitor the MAIN PWR switch, the displays follow the switch. You can assign flags from anything to anything and it makes it really easy to set up the switches to act like real. Very cool feature. Maybe Falcas can add something like that.
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 10, 2011, 03:36:59 AM
Rgr, well I think here the simplicity of the hardware toggle is a great advantage as it's quite idiotproof :)
Beside, i'm not a big fan of Beta Innovations stuff. even the PWM dimmer is still resisting me and does not work at all. I'm probably too stupid to work with that Beta Innovations hardware  ;D

As promised, here is the final picture for the CMDS. The picture doesn't do justice
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/677_AIC_CMDS_final.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on February 10, 2011, 03:40:45 AM
Now that is what I call a GREAT panel.
Super work RD, it looks so real, congrats mate, and you are really updating your pit in these month  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 10, 2011, 03:46:51 AM
Yeah, removing the UCC from the pit and replacing it with the AIC is a major overhaul but I get a lot of extra goodies in the process.
one of which is the possibility to move to WIN7 in the near future... and get extra FPS and get extra screens ...
So it was a needed move.

All the lights, magnetic switches are now connected to the AIC and the Speedbrake is as well. All work perfectly
So the UCC is completely removed and AIC Center and Right are complete.
I'm slowly working on AIC left panel by panel.
Next on the list are the backup UHF with displays, the AUX COMMS with OSRAMS and the Trims with working Wheels through aircores.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on February 10, 2011, 06:55:00 AM
RD,
The hardwired switch is best of course but the flags are dead simple to use and you can put any output on them or more than one flag also. So any of the systems that should follow the power can be applied. I have all the eyebrow lights done like this for example. Anyway, I can help with the dimmer. Let's Skype.
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 29, 2011, 03:59:14 AM
Hey gents,

Beside using the pit to fly MP, and waiting for some new panel to finish AIC integration in the left side console, I went for shopping for a new complete Power supply solution.
I have been looking for such a solution for a long time, but all of a suffen it dropped in front of my door early this week:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/678_MobilePwrstation.jpg)
Man that thing is powerful !!
I have plenty of power, matter of fact I can light the whole neighbourhood.
They complain a little bit about the noise and the flashing light though :)
And our house clocks run faster than usual too ...

 ;D :harhar:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Falcas on June 29, 2011, 02:19:44 PM
 :harhar: And it doesn't show up on your electricity bill  :harhar:

might need some fuel....

Gr Falcas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TOR on June 29, 2011, 03:57:46 PM
Hey gents,

Beside using the pit to fly MP, and waiting for some new panel to finish AIC integration in the left side console, I went for shopping for a new complete Power supply solution.
I have been looking for such a solution for a long time, but all of a suffen it dropped in front of my door early this week:
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/678_MobilePwrstation.jpg)
Man that thing is powerful !!
I have plenty of power, matter of fact I can light the whole neighbourhood.
They complain a little bit about the noise and the flashing light though :)
And our house clocks run faster than usual too ...

 ;D :harhar:

Am i the only one who see a face in that dark cloud!????  :o

TOR
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ulti on June 29, 2011, 04:36:53 PM
(http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p137/ulti152/tor1.jpg)

Sure.......  an it looks like an angel  :D

\Martin
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 04, 2011, 07:01:16 AM
today is a day that will stay in Falcon History

Falcon BMS is released !!

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/679_pit_BMS.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/680_pit_BMS_rightaux.jpg)

I'm proud to say that this pit was used as a testbed for many BMS features, specific to pitbuilders (amongst others) but also for third party cockpit developments.
A big thank you first to the BMS team and a big thank you to third party cockpit software who accepted to read between the lines of my request, making their software working perfectly with BMS.

It's been a long time somehow not saying openly that my pit was flying BMS since the beginning. It was frustrating as well, not being able to show you the full BMS fonctionalities for our beloved cockpits.
I will develop them in the coming days in this thread.

At this time, here is a list of cockpit hardware/software being used perfectly in my pit with BMS

- UCC (it is now removed but worked great with BMS)
- AIC replaced UCC for all lights, mag switches, aircore instruments, speedbrakes, trims, UHF, CMDS etc etc
- MFDE to display all instruments
- Display extraction to displays both MFD (internal to BMS)
- Ghosts Oled Ded software
- TIR
- Cougar (with FCC and Warthog handle)
- 2 Xkeys matrixes  programmed with Macro recorder
-1 BU 0836 for pots (analogue entries such as trim wheels, volume pots, etc etc
- 1 BU0836X for encoders (local pressure settings, HSI CRS, HSI HDG, UHF, ...)

And of course BMS 4.32 released today.

Have fun gents, and don't hesitate to ask any question you might have in this thread, I'll be happy to catch up with you, trying to reveal what I had to hide from you these last 5 years
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on September 04, 2011, 11:08:39 AM
Awesome, RD. Olivier has been a huge part of the BMS beta test team and has contributed more than you will ever know. He is working on the manual and a few other goodies all for simply love of Falcon. I am so glad this is finally out in the open. It will be the only sim you will fly for your pit. Wait till you guys get into the new callbacks and the radar modes, it is awesome. THANKS RED DOG and all BMS team.
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on September 05, 2011, 04:42:50 AM
Thank you so much for the development of all the charts, docs, tutorials etc. you did!
Finally we can talk about in the open! You did an amazing job Olivier, as all of the BMS team.
One can not imagine how much time this must have cost you.

 :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: gancio on September 05, 2011, 10:05:19 AM
Thanks Olivier and all BMS team.
I'm installing at moment.
Great job.
Thanks, many, many thanks
Giorgio
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: raptor on September 06, 2011, 03:49:48 AM
not saying openly that my pit was flying BMS


Anyone who knew what to look for was aware, including other member pits. The silence obviously was for the respect of the project and your hard work.  :thumbsup:

Anyway i am glad there are ppl like u with passion and knowledge to work for free for a whole community.  :beer: :beer:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 06, 2011, 09:49:10 AM
Also, don't forget to send Olivier a few dollars donation from his checklist site. I'm sure his bandwidth is getting hammered with the bms release
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 17, 2011, 05:23:38 AM
Ah, that explains it Mike !!
Many thanks mate, but you of all shouldn't have made it - I owe you so much :)

Some update work started on the left console, The plan is to continue integrating the AIC system on the left. I still need to cover the AUXComms, the Trims and the BUP UHF, and adding all EL sheets on all panels on the left side;

The aux comms AIC bring the possibility to use tacan in Backup mode, not something very often needed but nice to have anyway.
Mike's metal backplate was replaced by the AIC PCB and switches were moved from one to another.
small up/down mom switches were added for the tacan channels and band, the AIC Aux comm PCB was connected to the AIC left main board and the displays worked without any configuration. They are in synch with BMS without further configuration.
The new mom switches are wired to LeoBodnar BU0836X (no matrix) as DX buttons and declared in the keyfile. I elected to do this just because my Xkey on the left side is pretty full. And since I had empty slots on the BU0836X I use for HSI, ALT & Machmeter encoders, why leave them empty.

Adapting the EL sheet to the AIC PCB and Mike's panel meant to remove the bogus rotary for the Master IFF button. The connector of the El sheet seriously conflicts with the rotary hole on the PCB.
Beside the EL connector also is very close to a heating component on the AIC PCB. Since the IFF is not implemented anyway, I decided to remove the rotary and simply place the knob on the panel. Better safe than sorry for something not worth it.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/681_AIC_AuxComs.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on September 17, 2011, 07:22:39 AM
Very very nice Olivier. Your pit is always getting better and better. It was and is one of my inspirations to build my own.
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 17, 2011, 07:58:21 AM
Thanks Nigel,
It's getting old when I see yours and Ray's
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 14, 2011, 04:27:21 AM
To all guys here waiting orders from Mike, rest assured that the quality still is top notch. Yes he is slower than before but that's called success and quality :) So be patient and you can be sure that the quality wasn't decreased to speed things up.
I have been waiting a long time for those panels to replace real ones in my pit, Real panels are a pain to me, especially to interface AIC PCBs.
So my real UHF has to be removed for added functionnality.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/683_MikeUHF.jpg)
The AIC PCB will serve as backplate and the sides have been painted black.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/684_MikeUHF.jpg)
Mike supplied to small top left cover as well, with the frequency table glued.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/685_MikeUHF.jpg)
The EL sheet will be used as well but will need to be modified to suit the AIC PCB.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/686_MikeUHF.jpg)
The only modification required on the panel lightplate is to enlarge a bit the recess so the 7 segments fit perfectly. If that's not done, there's a difference in height of about 3 mm between the back and lightplate. Nothing serious and that's easily done, especially since the modifications are invisible

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Tulkas on October 14, 2011, 06:45:56 AM
Kan you just cut the EL sheet?

Cheers

Tulkas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on October 14, 2011, 07:02:17 AM
Cool stuff RD, that UHF panel will look great when you are done.

Super work  :thumbsup:

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 15, 2011, 05:45:07 AM
Kan you just cut the EL sheet?

yeah, that's what I usually do, but in this case, t's going to be very tricky as the amount of modification is really heavy and dangerous because of the heating components on the AIC PCB.
I wonder if I may not separate the UHF backlight from the EL sheets and use the surface leds on the AIC PCB instead.
Caveat is that the dimming of that panel will go with the AIC gauges and not the pot for the PWM for El sheets ...

Now I need to find some encoders ..
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 19, 2011, 12:02:59 PM
UHF saga continues ...

I finally decided to give it a go anyway at the EL sheet. Worst case scenario, I'll ruin it and then I always can revert to the SMT leds on the AIC PCB... Nice to have a backup solution.
So extensive modification were needed on the EL sheet to accomodate the non real part switches I'll be using and the AIC PCB. Let's remember than back when Mike designed the EL sheets, the AIC wasn't available so those cuts are needed now because I'm not using the genuine metal backplate. the modifications are in red. Each cut was then protected with transparent masking tape.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/686_UHF_EL.jpg)

The AIC PCB also had to be modified for the connectors and EL sheet wire to go through. Downside of this is that I won't be able to install pushbuttons for the rubber buttons on the UHF panel (not supported anyway in BMS) because the connector of the EL sheet is smack in the middle of where the pushbutton is supposed to be.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/687_UHF_AIC.jpg)

Result is looking great, i'll probably tape the EL sheet with black masking tape. The rubber buttons are the ones coming from my real UHF panel
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/688_UHF_AIC.jpg)

The inside of Mike's UHF panel was further milled to allow my non real part to fit correctly - the bigger axes and nuts mostly. Some screw holes also had to be enlarged and the two bottom tiny switches needs to be attached to the panel directly and that couldn't work with the round hole for them in the panel, so that was also further milled.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/689_UHF_panel.jpg)

Mike's panel is then placed on top of the AIC & EL sheet combo: i'll probably use the real UHF cover although I do have two replicas.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/690_UHF_panel.jpg)

All in all progressing fine here. I miss some encoders, and since they are not yet supported in the code, I'll probably won't install the frequency encoder straight away. I'll do that when they become supported in the BMS code.
For no wI just place the two rotaries on the bottom of the panel and the top channel encoders. Those are supported and thanks to AIC, the display will work as well in BMS.



Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: white-eagle on October 19, 2011, 12:07:18 PM
You have to get it right, haven't you?  :whistle:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rabbit on October 20, 2011, 01:51:06 AM
He Red

Dous it work when you cut the sheet, dous it stil light up?????
and the cut line , you just put some transparent tape over it????


Please let me now i'd like to try this.

Cheers Rabs

 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 20, 2011, 03:39:53 AM
As long as you don't cut in the lead wires on the backside, nor the edges you're ok.
the cuts have to be protected because if you short the top side with the backside (against a metal switch) for instance (usually the reason why you cut) then the damn thing will blow the inverter and probably hurt you if your hand was on that switch :)
So yes I carefully tape all my cuts.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/675_AIC_CMDS.jpg)
Look for the green part, don't cut there! One of the two green way go to the edge of the EL sheet and countour it, so that's the reason why you can't cut the edges either.
In the above case, the EL sheet is larger than the recess in the panel, but I couldn't cut the EL sheet, so I had to enlarge the panel recess so it would fit
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rabbit on October 20, 2011, 04:01:42 AM
Thanks for the explanation its helps.


Cheer Rabs :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 24, 2011, 06:34:16 AM
I'l like to express my huge gratitude to my friend Arend who never hesitate coming down from Holland to help me solve tricky problems :)
But when I see his expression (see below) working on my pit different voltage, I was really concerned :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/691_Arend.jpg)

Thanks a lot Arend, your help in really priceless.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: white-eagle on October 24, 2011, 08:00:30 AM
Thanks a lot, Olivier.

You really cought me in the act, showing my most intelligent look...  :bat:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on October 24, 2011, 08:34:35 AM
and  i was considering to buy things from Arend....should i  :whistle:  :lolsign:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Willy on October 24, 2011, 09:43:31 AM
 :lolsign:

That's probably the way I looked when the guy came to turn on the Electric Power to my condo when I lived in Virginia a long time ago. 

The Power Company guy shows up, cut's the security tag off of the Electric Meter box opens it up and pulls the meter out and the two little insulating tabs that prevent electricity from flowing into the condo.  I'm standing there expecting to see him pull out a meter or tester of some sort to check to see if 220V AC is coming into the meter from the Power Company.  Oh no, that takes too long! 

Instead, he just licks two fingers and swipes them across the live 220V terminals!   :o  [See Arend's look.  I'm sure it's what I looked like.]

I'm stunned at what I just saw and I ask him, "Isn't that a bit dangerous?" 

"Nah", he says, in a Virginia drawl, "Ya jus do it real quick so's ya jus gets a lil' tickle."

:nuts:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: white-eagle on October 24, 2011, 12:06:07 PM
JJ, luckily for you I reserve a somewhat more intelligent look for assembling FCC's and AIC stuff.
But NO, you won't get a picture of me, wearing my more intelligent look.  :harhar:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 24, 2011, 01:35:26 PM
Don't tempt me, I have other pictures :)

The UHF panel found its way to the cockpit - replacing the overrated real panel I used before  :-P
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/692_UHFinpit.jpg)
I'll try to post some videos soon...
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: white-eagle on October 24, 2011, 03:19:28 PM
Very cool.

You make me feel proud. This is looking awsome.
And can't wait for your vids.
 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on October 24, 2011, 05:47:27 PM
WONDERFULL !
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Venom on October 24, 2011, 06:07:25 PM
like the new sig, is there a website to go with it?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 25, 2011, 12:21:55 PM
like the new sig, is there a website to go with it?

Yes but not public yet
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: gancio on October 25, 2011, 01:44:07 PM
Noce one Olivier. For shure I'll be back when I shall work on mine. Thanks for sharing.
Giorgio
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 29, 2011, 03:21:57 AM
Next one is the trim panel.

I had a trim panel working before with the needles working with servoes, but I discared that options before. It's now replaced with AIC.

As usual, the edges of the AIC PCB were painted in black and the needle faceplate were glued on the PCB with PVA glue.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/693_trim.jpg)

Mike's panel is too thin (the needle don't have enough room to fit inside), so a spacer had to be created from plasticard and painted black as well.
The two pot supports have to be thinned so they match the insert in the panel. I glued as well with PVA and removed them after 1 hour. That ensured that the fit was perfect and I could remove them at will while keeping a good fit (better for future maintenance)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/694_trim.jpg)

The insert is placed on the panel. The needles were modified as well (I removed the cap so they are thinner and thus get more room to rotate freely.
As usual I also created the hole for the EL wires. That's always a tricky one as you're always quite close to some tracks on the PCB.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/695_trim.jpg)


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 29, 2011, 03:28:58 AM
I decided to place the EL sheet on top of the spacer:
EL sheet mofification was kept to a minimum on this one, albeit not easier to do as the cut for the wheels and pot supports come very close to the EL sheet edges...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/699_trim.jpg)

As I wanted to use my huge stock of Cougar RNG pots because of their center detent (usual for center trim) I had to modify the pot support bu enlarging the hile and milling the other side for the nut. The wheels are the ones I used onthe previous panel and they are a perfect fit
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/700_trim.jpg)  (http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/701_trim.jpg)

The goodies are installed on the panel and it's getting crowded in there.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/702_trim.jpg)

The top side of the panel with all switches in place.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/703_trim_final.jpg)

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 29, 2011, 03:31:49 AM
And finally the trim panel backlighted and placed in the pit.
Seeing those needles moving is really great !!
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/704_trim_inpit.jpg)

I was concerned that the cut in the EL sheet for the pot support may obscure the backlight trim lines but the result is quite good to me.
Same for the needle indicator, the backlight coming from above gives a satisfactory result. 




Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on October 29, 2011, 05:42:14 AM
Great work RD, looks really good. That NVIS green looks awesome.   :thumbsup:

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on October 29, 2011, 08:57:10 AM
Beautiful!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Olejon on October 29, 2011, 09:10:38 AM
I love the green  backlight  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on October 29, 2011, 03:21:37 PM
Very nice Olivier!!!! I can see it takes quit a lot of work, but the result is great!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Falcao on October 29, 2011, 03:24:15 PM
RD.. this is impressive and motivating also....more pics???
 :beer:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Venom on October 29, 2011, 06:50:57 PM
Very nice indeed   :beer:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 01, 2011, 04:04:38 PM
Thanks guys

I'm still struggling with the PWM card from beta innovation. That thing refuses to work whatever I do with it. I'm quite close to call it U/S.
I mounted instead a homemade PWM board Arend designed a long time ago and I copied it to have a second one.

I thus now have the ability to dim all the AIC gauges at the same time and dim the panel backlight.
two pots installed on the INT light panel control each PWM. the third pot on the int light control all cockpit Flood lights. (it's actually a ON/OFF button, no dimming possible on these)

The noise of the EL sheets inverters is a bit bothersome, but when I keep the brightness down, it's quite supportable. The front panel and right side El sheets channels are ready to be added at later stages.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/706_backlight_rightside.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/705_backlight_rightside.jpg)

Nuclear and Oxygen panels still are real ones, so no EL backlight for them for now...
Too bad the knobs aren't backlightable either, but that's not going to change
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Deiceman1 on November 01, 2011, 04:22:40 PM
WOW    Looking great!!!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on November 02, 2011, 02:22:03 AM
Olivier
What sort of  problem with the Beta Innovations pwm? Mine works maybe I can help.
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 02, 2011, 04:32:36 AM
it just doesn't work.

First the manual isn't quite clear if the damn thing needs both 5v and 12v
There is no schematics for JP2 in the manual.
But to be on the safe side, i applied power through the ATX connector and let JP1 untouched. Jumper is set accordingly.

Then I connect the EL sheet/inverter on any output, and connect the pot.
I don't even hear the inverter buzz, whatever the pot position. The EL sheets don't light up of course

When I take the same inverter and the same EL sheet on my home made PWM, it works quite well.
Don't know what else I can try. This stuff actually never worked
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Strale on November 02, 2011, 01:43:56 PM
Quote
it just doesn't work.
First the manual isn't quite clear if the damn thing needs both 5v and 12v

JP1 is standard ATX connector the board works with 12Vdc probably the 5vdc are needed too

Quote
There is no schematics for JP2 in the manual.
Don't think this is a issue ... almost sure you're not controlling it with DAC

Quote
But to be on the safe side, i applied power through the ATX connector and let JP1 untouched. Jumper is set accordingly.

CORRECT !

Quote
Then I connect the EL sheet/inverter on any output, and connect the pot.
I don't even hear the inverter buzz, whatever the pot position. The EL sheets don't light up of course

Surely a stupid question but :
Did you check the polarity while hooking the wires to the board ?
Did you hook a 100K linear pot ?
How many each EL sheet drain ? each channed is rated for 0.5A


Quote
When I take the same inverter and the same EL sheet on my home made PWM, it works quite well.
Don't know what else I can try. This stuff actually never worked

Could be a defective board ? I mean .... my pwm card is working fine .... honestly had in the past TWO problems with Beta Innovations's stuff that Leo Handled professionally ... but an MM2 and an Efflux expansion board were defective.

Good Luck
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on November 11, 2011, 07:17:05 PM
I've added the proper thickness to the Trim and UHF panel, thanks to Arend and Olivier's feedback. I had only made the originals for Arend, should have placed notes in my file. All future Trim and UHF will be AIC compatible. Nice work Red Dog!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 04, 2011, 04:48:49 AM
For those that may still be on XP and afraid to move to Win7, here's a report from my migration.

The pit software I use are:

BMS 4.32
Cougar FCC3
AIC v5.5
MFDE
Oded from Ghost
2 Xkeys Matrixes programmed with macro recorder
1 BU0836X
1 BU0836
TIR4

The idea of the migration was to replace my old Core2duo 3Ghz running XP with 3 Nvidia GPU with a i7 running one monster ATI GPU eyefinity 6 on Win7 64bit.
The Xp computer was maxing FPS around 25-28 fps with BMS extracted MFD and prevented me to play MP campaigns with BMS.
The Win7 was declared a much stable and FPS optimised OS for BMS and extracted display - and the ATI eyefinity drivers are kicking Nvidia out of the multi display game for now.

Installation took quite a time as always in those case to recover all the tiny details and setup of the old system while learning the new stuff from the new one.
But today, I'm happy to report that from all the above pit component, only one is not up to Win7.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/707_NZXT.jpg)

. BMS created no installation problem as advertised and FPS with extracted displays are now in the 60 fps range so i'm pretty better than before.
. AIC was installed and the old folder was simply pasted from the old config and I didn't even have to recalibrate all the gauges or to re declare all the lights, Working perfectly under Win7 64 bit. A real dream to use.
. Cougar software gave me some trouble but nothing the forum woun't help with. So once installed in Vista compatibility mode and run as admin, the CCP works fine and the Cougar works as before
.TIR 4 was updated with the latest release of the V5.3 software and running smoothly as before as well
. MFDE was reinitialized according to the new screen setup and runs indeed as well as before
. Oded was upgraded to v1.41 that supports Win7, and working great as well.
. the 2 Xkeys matrixes are detected directly and working as keyboard, so 100% status. I don't have to program those and that's good because I am not sure Macro recorder support win7 and I don't know what will happen when I switch those to program mode. We'll have to see that later on.
. BU0836X was recognized directly and worked as before but the main problem came from the Bu0836 that can't be recognized by WIN7. it is seen but does not appear in the windows controler applet and can't be used. As a consequence I lost 8 analogue axis in the current pit. At leat until I find a solution. Leo Bodnar doesn't seem to be quite active on those support question, but I'll probably have to order another BU0836X to overcome the problem, so not a big issue (although I found the Bu0836X harder to work with for analogue axis than the smaller BU0836 that work all the time flawless.)

So I am now a pretty happy Win7 cockpit user :)
Last word of caution if you use intensively DX controls. When doing such a computer change be ready to take it from the start unless you can put your controller ID in the exact same order as on the old computer. Obviously in my case, it was all messed up since I came one controller short in the migration. So I'm quite glad I didn't use Full DX configuration.
 
Special thanks to my friend Dunc who helped me choose the component to buy - it's my very first killer computer - and thanks to Nigel for all the help on the Eyefinity 6 stuff.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on December 04, 2011, 08:00:32 AM
That looks so great Oliver :) !

Could you give more details about the config you've got there :) ?

I'm probably gonna have a nice christmas gift ( :yihaw: ) and I'm thinking all the config stuff.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on December 04, 2011, 08:06:36 AM
it just doesn't work.

First the manual isn't quite clear if the damn thing needs both 5v and 12v
There is no schematics for JP2 in the manual.
But to be on the safe side, i applied power through the ATX connector and let JP1 untouched. Jumper is set accordingly.

Then I connect the EL sheet/inverter on any output, and connect the pot.
I don't even hear the inverter buzz, whatever the pot position. The EL sheets don't light up of course

When I take the same inverter and the same EL sheet on my home made PWM, it works quite well.
Don't know what else I can try. This stuff actually never worked


OK RD lets try this.
From the manual: " Power can be supplied by connecting a standard ATX PS to the power connector JP2" No need to have a schematic for that one. A few questions:
1. Are you hooking up the DC side of the inverter?
2. If so, are you following the correct polarity? Black to GND and red to +12v.
3. Did you use a jumper on HW MODE? It must have one.
4. Can you test it first without a pot? Hook up an LED directly to any output and see if that works. Try both ways. You should use a resistor start with 330. You dont need one to see if it lights up though. That will tell you if the card is dead.
If it doesn't work after that, send it to me and I will test it on my rig.
Regards,
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 08, 2011, 11:15:26 AM
That looks so great Oliver :) !
Could you give more details about the config you've got there :) ?

Not sure your daddy will like the sound of that :)
Say hi to him from me btw

The config is an I7 2600K mounted on a P8Z68 asus mobo with 8Gb Ram (2x4 Gb Corsair PC7) and the Eyefinity Asus EAH 6950 2Gb VRam
All credit to Dunc for his advises on other places. One of his biggest advise was to avoid going cheap on the power supply, so I went for a gold enermax 800W.
Software is Win7Pro 64 bit - but home edition works great for the pit use and he said 64 bit should be chosen over 32 bit as well.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 08, 2011, 11:26:00 AM
Thanks Nigel,
Quote
From the manual: " Power can be supplied by connecting a standard ATX PS to the power connector JP2" No need to have a schematic for that one. A few questions:
Yes, but I don't use ATX PS in my pit and thus I use regular power supply with 2 wires.
I do have 5 and 12v available no problem.

Quote
1. Are you hooking up the DC side of the inverter?

Yes. And when I disconnect my inverter from the Bi card and connect it straight to the PWM Arend did, the EL sheet works and varies in intensity perfectly fine. 
Quote
2. If so, are you following the correct polarity? Black to GND and red to +12v.

Yes. I even ask Arend to check that one and he confirmed what I was doing :)
Quote
3. Did you use a jumper on HW MODE? It must have one.
Yes - as stated in the manual
Quote
4. Can you test it first without a pot? Hook up an LED directly to any output and see if that works. Try both ways. You should use a resistor start with 330. You dont need one to see if it lights up though. That will tell you if the card is dead.

Yes I did and no it didn't light up.

Thanks bud, I really think that stuff was delivered dead at my place. It never worked. The thing is I never understood if the thing needed both 5v and 12v and that's what I wanted to confirm in the first place since the ATX connector the manual says must be used is both 5 and 12v

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: GunMan on December 08, 2011, 01:59:48 PM
That looks so great Oliver :) !
Could you give more details about the config you've got there :) ?

Not sure your daddy will like the sound of that :)
Say hi to him from me btw

The config is an I7 2600K mounted on a P8Z68 asus mobo with 8Gb Ram (2x4 Gb Corsair PC7) and the Eyefinity Asus EAH 6950 2Gb VRam
All credit to Dunc for his advises on other places. One of his biggest advise was to avoid going cheap on the power supply, so I went for a gold enermax 800W.
Software is Win7Pro 64 bit - but home edition works great for the pit use and he said 64 bit should be chosen over 32 bit as well.


Il te dit bonjour ?galement h?h? ;-) ! He doesn't like this new computer affair  :D but well we're 20 only once in a life as we use to say in french.

Guess what, that's the EXACT config I had in mind. Except for the gfx card, I found an 6990 instead of 6950, I don't know if it's worth the price difference. Anyway, those Eyefinity 6 cards are very rare - the salesmans in computerstores always stare at me for some minutes when I tell them I have to hook up 6 screens :) !

Anyway thanks very much for the details Oliver ;-) !
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Crease-Guard on December 10, 2011, 10:16:32 PM
Thanks guys

I'm still struggling with the PWM card from beta innovation. That thing refuses to work whatever I do with it. I'm quite close to call it U/S.
I mounted instead a homemade PWM board Arend designed a long time ago and I copied it to have a second one.

I thus now have the ability to dim all the AIC gauges at the same time and dim the panel backlight.
two pots installed on the INT light panel control each PWM. the third pot on the int light control all cockpit Flood lights. (it's actually a ON/OFF button, no dimming possible on these)


How come you can't dim your flood lights?

Jay
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 11, 2011, 12:12:00 PM
I don't have the hardware to dim 24v Jay
So it's a simple switch for now
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: lumper on December 11, 2011, 07:06:34 PM
Is it not nice to see two of the most talented and longtime Viperpit members ask each other questions. 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: nighthawkf-117 on February 17, 2012, 09:15:31 PM
Red Dog, could i ask a favor of you?
I have most of my pit parts cut out, but i cant find drawings for the center console/instrument panel. Its the one with the MFDs, radar, DED ect. Is there anyway you could get the measurments of this part for me?
The first picture on this page is what i need, but the left size also,
http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=7058.15 (http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=7058.15)

Thanks, any help will be appreciated.
Nighthawk
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: nighthawkf-117 on February 18, 2012, 04:08:48 PM
Nevermind on my request, i got the drawing on Martin's site printed.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 26, 2012, 11:51:06 AM
Sorry mate, was on holidays and couldn't help but let me know if you need any thing
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: nighthawkf-117 on July 05, 2012, 12:59:07 PM
Red Dog,
In your original trim panel, the one with the RC servos, what did you use to control the RC servos? PHCC?
Thanks
Nighthawk
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 05, 2012, 01:35:24 PM
Opencockpit project
I had (still have) a mobo, servo & stepper cards
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 02, 2012, 06:02:28 AM
Quick video about the Backup UHF panel interfaced fully with AIC. it's been a while I made it already but I actually never uploaded it.
It's now done.
Let me use the occasion for thanking White Eagle and Falcas for their superb work they are doing with AIC.

HD available, and excuse the french accent :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io3szOvi7Jk

mmmh, looks like Youtube embedded does not work; here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io3szOvi7Jk&feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 02, 2012, 06:26:02 AM
It's been a while I hadn't worked in the pit but the TWP was in dire need of some maintenance
I finally took a week-end to work on the issues and placed 2 lights (leds) inside each indicator, and a supplementary pushbutton on the msl launch indicator.

As you may remember, my TWP is completely homemade and for long I hesitated replacing my homemade casings with Jay EL buttons which we can find rather easily today.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/170_TWP.jpg)
But after careful analysis and decided to modify the existing casings by replacing the single 5mm led by 2 3 mm led into each casing, and adding a separator made in plasticard.


Now both light within an indicator are independant, allowing to interface correctly the TWP in BMS.
Bottom part of the indicator comes ON whenever the EWS is powered and top part of the indicator is actually the button function.
Two new functions are implemented, SYS TEST and MSL launch test

Testing the system in a video:
#Invalid YouTube Link#

link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJIxd6YZtGU&feature=youtu.be

The RWR is not the correct one, but the ATD from MFDE is too good not to be used :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: KK on November 02, 2012, 07:22:42 AM
Olivier,
great work and quite obvious that you are using BMS 4.33.
The implementation of the TWP in 4.32 was quite strange (UNKNOWN).
When is the new baby available for the public?

It seems I have to wire now the Missile Launch push button  like
it was in the real unit from the beginning.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Tulkas on November 02, 2012, 09:52:58 AM
3-4 weeks I'd bet :D

Cheers

Tulkas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Cupra on November 02, 2012, 04:15:03 PM
You also have the ship-mode as option? Did not see it in the Vid.... :sleepyeyed:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on November 06, 2012, 02:43:34 AM
Great work, RedDog!

Since I don't have BMS installed (yet), one questions, if you allow ;)

Is the logic behind the UHF panel inside BMS or inside the AIC software?

greetings
michi
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Falcas on November 06, 2012, 03:10:57 AM
Great progress  :thumbsup:
And very good to see you again at the FsWeekend.

Gr Falcas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Falcas on November 06, 2012, 04:50:44 AM
Is the logic behind the UHF panel inside BMS or inside the AIC software?

Hi Mihi,

The anwser to this is both and is depending on the version of BMS.
Things like the status and test functions of the UHF panel are AIC logic, most of the other stuff is linked to BMS (including freq and channel).

Gr Falcas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 06, 2012, 07:45:14 AM
It seems I have to wire now the Missile Launch push button  like it was in the real unit from the beginning.

Yes Klaus, you were right from the beginning and I was wrong :) Mea culpa

Quote
ou also have the ship-mode as option? Did not see it in the Vid....

Unless I am mistaken again, there is no such option on the block 50/52 RWR suite. it might be so on different blocks but as far as I can check in the real docs of the F16 b50/52, the naval option is not a RWS specific setting. It is just confusing to have the Unknown button engraved with a ship symbol. It was indeed badly implemented.
It is still so as the naval bit and keystroke are still active, but I don't use them.  

Quote
And very good to see you again at the FsWeekend.
Same Cars. :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on November 07, 2012, 02:13:17 AM
Is the logic behind the UHF panel inside BMS or inside the AIC software?
The anwser to this is both and is depending on the version of BMS.
Things like the status and test functions of the UHF panel are AIC logic, most of the other stuff is linked to BMS (including freq and channel).
Thx a lot!
I was mainly thinking about the stuff RedDog showed in his vid (transferring channel frequency to display, setting guard freq.).

Looks like I'm going to have some busy times ahead of me ;)

greetings
michi
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 07, 2012, 03:14:48 AM
Michi, remember that this is the backup channel, actually hardly used in flight.
Most of the time, we use the UFC. The use of the backup radio is mostly done at ramp before the CNI can be switched to backup or in case of in flight emergencies where the main radio are inop (which hardly happens)
nevertheless, it's great to have those feature working. I can see some tower comms on BUP and the possibility also to ask for hotpit on BUP in the future :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: KK on November 07, 2012, 04:07:59 AM
Quote
It seems I have to wire now the Missile Launch push button  like it was in the real unit from the beginning.

Yes Klaus, you were right from the beginning and I was wrong  Mea culpa

No problem, Olivier, we learn from each other and thats what brings us forth in the end. The synergy effect created is probably the most valuable treasure of this forum.

Quote
Most of the time, we use the UFC
True.
I did a lot of flying over the past months with just Hotas, MFDs, ICP.
I found that the whole Christmas tree around you is more or less  eye candy.

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 09, 2012, 05:08:44 AM
Gents,

I never added a HUD to my pit because I always found it an annoyance (flying MP with TIR) rather than a necessary item. That being said, i'm looking for a installing a non functionnal hud on my HUD support. I want to be able to remove it when I fly in case it annoys me too much.
I do have a older block HUD combiner glass and some mockup support made by Mike back a few years. Problem is that it doesn't quite fit my resin Hud block. I started looking to see how the real one was mated to the HUD support but it seems I am unable to understand how it is attached by simply studying found pictures.

Any one of you has some sort of idea?
thanks

This is what I'm trying to achieve:
here's the older block combiner glass:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/382_Hud.jpg)

and the replica Hud block. I can't find any point to attach the HUD side support (unless the two locating holes forward of the HUD lens)? at this time that's what i'm trying to understand.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/557_hudmount.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: raptor on November 09, 2012, 08:39:50 AM
Are these helping you?

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7559899/86DF89W3J7/4RD/P6010160.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7559899/86DF89W3J7/4RD/PA200156.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7559899/86DF89W3J7/4RD/PB060015.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7559899/86DF89W3J7/4RD/PB060068.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7559899/86DF89W3J7/4RD/PB060069.JPG

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/7559899/86DF89W3J7/4RD/PB060071.JPG

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on November 09, 2012, 08:48:50 AM
Nice images, i thought already that there was a part missing of the HUD. The upside walls for the hudglass are missing on the replica.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 09, 2012, 12:34:54 PM
Quote
Are these helping you?
Thank you raptor, that will be helpful indeed

Quote
Nice images, i thought already that there was a part missing of the HUD. The upside walls for the hudglass are mising on the replica.
Yes JJ, that'sd actually what I need to build :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 11, 2012, 02:43:48 PM
Change of plan for the week end
It all started with cleaning the pit and studying that HUD thing and i ended up placing all El sheets on the left side. that's about 16 of them. Luckily I already had the 3 most complicated ones installed.
they went in all without problem except for the usual needed hole in the backplate to let the El sheet connector pass freely. I only had to mod the HMCS one as I used the basic audio2 one instead. the rest fit like a glove except maybe the Audio1 that could use some larger holes for the MSL, THREAT and secure voice and TF pots hole. The 2 pots on the EXT light panel could be just a bit bigger.

No dimming yet, that will be for next time.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/710_EL_leftside.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/712_EL_leftside.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/711_EL_leftside.jpg)

The elec panel isn't backlighted because that's still a real one that will be replaced by a replica soon. I also need to make a custom EL sheet for the trackball panel
I'm still bothered by the inverter noise, hopefully a solution will surface in the future. if not, well I'll build a sound proof box to put them into :)

 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mihi4 on November 12, 2012, 02:13:13 AM
 :thumbsup:

'nuff said :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 17, 2012, 07:26:04 AM
Since the very early days I had 2 folding map lights installed under my glareshied but no bulb in there.
Today I decided to see if I could put 5mm white leds in there ...

First thing, take two original bulbs and smash them with a hammer :) keeping only the socket

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/713_led_maplight.jpg)

Then bore two holes for the led's anode and cathode into that casing and Insert the leds pin in there
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/714_led_maplight.jpg)

A bit of solder to secure that in place and a small file to make it level and ensure a good contact.
The new ledbulb can be replaced into the map light and powered...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/715_led_maplight.jpg)

Only thing left to sort is that on the real map light the ground is provided by the glareshied ...
and the map comes On when deployed.




 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Raven on November 17, 2012, 08:21:05 AM
That's some excellent work Red Dog. I'm curious to know how long it took you to install the LED into the bulb base? It's a really clever idea, but given that I have over 150 of these bulbs for my cockpit, the time to convert each lamp is a consideration. You now have me thinking about it however.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 17, 2012, 11:46:54 AM
i'd say you need about 5 minutes per light. but I made only two :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Lemmi22 on November 17, 2012, 11:49:03 AM
I have also a question: Where did you place the resistor for the LED?
As far as I know a resistor is needed, otherwise the LED will take damage....?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 17, 2012, 11:56:48 AM
further down the wire.
no place enough to place it into the bulb casing
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 17, 2012, 12:00:25 PM
oh and by the way, for those of you really patient, it should be doable too for the Jay El lights, with 3mm leds :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: bluc69 on November 17, 2012, 01:20:30 PM
oh and by the way, for those of you really patient, it should be doable too for the Jay El lights, with 3mm leds :)
Have you any pictures to show me how to do on jay-el?
I have some of them with 28V bulbs and I will be happy to modify them to use leds...
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on November 18, 2012, 09:06:56 AM
Gents,

I never added a HUD to my pit because I always found it an annoyance (flying MP with TIR) rather than a necessary item. That being said, i'm looking for a installing a non functionnal hud on my HUD support. I want to be able to remove it when I fly in case it annoys me too much.
I do have a older block HUD combiner glass and some mockup support made by Mike back a few years. Problem is that it doesn't quite fit my resin Hud block. I started looking to see how the real one was mated to the HUD support but it seems I am unable to understand how it is attached by simply studying found pictures.

Any one of you has some sort of idea?
thanks

This is what I'm trying to achieve:
here's the older block combiner glass:
and the replica Hud block. I can't find any point to attach the HUD side support (unless the two locating holes forward of the HUD lens)? at this time that's what i'm trying to understand.


http://viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=8434.0
Olivier
Check out these pics I posted. The HUD frame risers are molded in one piece into the upper HUD block. My HUD was molded from a real one by Phillipe and I saw the pics of him making the mold. He had to make mine in two sections due to the complexity of a rubber mold but the real one doesn't have that problem and is cast in one piece. I had to sand and glue it together as well as drilling and inserting pins for strength in the body as it is rather thin for resin.
Your HUD glass appears to be the narrower 5" A-model vs. the 6" C-model design. You do have the option of mounting it any way you like since no one will know but you and the purists here. In my case, Phillipe molded the real HUD glass holders and made a piece of plexi-glass cut to the real 6" shape of the combiner. Mike's replicas work just perfectly for this.
Hope this helps
Nigel
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 19, 2012, 04:04:24 AM
Thanks Dave.

I have the same part from philippe, probably one of his first rejected part :) but I had not the chance to get the HUD mounts back in the days. Indeed I noticed from studying pictures that the real part is one piece, that doesn't make my adaptation any easier but I'll get to it. My HUD glass is indeed a real older block model, it's also very heavy compared to a replica.

I do have a set ok mike's HUD mount - they were the same as Airdance if I remember well and different from the usual ones on his webshop, but they don't match either, so i'll have to build mine out of wood I guess
I also want to be able to remove the HUD in case it's annoying in MP flight, so gluing is not an option to me but it shouldn't be a problem to have a couple locating pins and have the HUD rest in there just by gravity :)

Many thanks for posting the pictures mate
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on November 19, 2012, 11:29:05 AM
Yes I agree about removal. I meant to add that if I were you I would make some dowel pins so it would just sit on there and you can remove it when you want. I hope those pics help anyone that needs detail for making one.
Title: Re: Red Dog's
Post by: Rabbit on January 24, 2013, 09:05:52 AM
Hello Oliver

Sorry that i do this in this treat your mail adres isn't Working
I would like to ask you the folowing.

Do you still sell the microstick switches (radarcurser swith)  for  the cougar throttle grip??

If so i would like to purchace one

Rabbit
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 27, 2013, 03:45:21 AM
Yep still got them.
Which email didn't work?
I'll PM you
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Geraki on March 01, 2013, 06:33:52 AM
EDIT -Message Removed

Hello Guys,

Since this is a build thread, please make contact with Red Dog thru PM or post a request thru the Thrustmaster help 
desk.

Thanks,
Romanski
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JCook on May 25, 2013, 03:19:53 PM
Red Dog - Do you have any additional detail: pictures, elec schematics, component list - of how you did your custom TWP and TWA components? I was looking in your build page here: Reply #1146 on: November 02, 2012, 05:26:02 AM and your solution looks like something I might try, if I can't implement a Korry solution.

Thanks

John
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 27, 2013, 03:45:12 AM
Sorry for the delay John;


(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/170_TWP.jpg)

I do not use jay-el or korry indicators, I made mine myself.
Basically, it's a plastic or metal square section painted in white and separated by a middle wall.
One 3mm led is inserted into each half indicator, that makes 2 led per indicator.
The each button slides into the TWP casing. Microswitches (Cougar ones actually) are monted on the back plate of the casing with a few springs attached.
The lights wires go through the back wall alongside the button.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/716_TWP.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/717_TWP.jpg)

Back then I only mounted 1 led per indicator but I recently mounted 2 leds per indicator and added a push button for the missile launch as well.
These will be needed for 4.33.

The leds are wired to AIC, the bottom light of each indicator is interfaced to the Rwr_ON bit.
The pushbuttons are wired to the Xkeys.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJIxd6YZtGU
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on May 27, 2013, 08:32:01 AM
very inventive work, and it also loooks good  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JCook on May 27, 2013, 11:44:13 AM
Thanks Red Dog

I like the design - its along the lines of what I was thinking of - but I hadn't considered springs, which is a good idea.
 :notes:
Do you have any more pictures of the rectangular tube? It looks like the inside is painted white in the photo. I'm interested in seeing how you mounted the LEDs and how the button piece actuates the spring. Are all of the buttons 'momentary' in function?

John
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AKaye on May 27, 2013, 12:12:55 PM
Back then I only mounted 1 led per indicator but I recently mounted 2 leds per indicator and added a push button for the master caution as well.
These will be needed for 4.33.

The leds are wired to AIC, the bottom light of each indicator is interfaced to the Rwr_ON bit.
The pushbuttons are wired to the Xkeys.

This was the info I was just looking for. Thanks!!
Alex
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on May 30, 2013, 04:14:22 AM
Quote
Do you have any more pictures of the rectangular tube? It looks like the inside is painted white in the photo. I'm interested in seeing how you mounted the LEDs and how the button piece actuates the spring.

When I started I had some moulds of the rectangles in black resin. But I found the thickness was too big and I  found other solutions.
I started by buying square section of aluminium tubing and cut them. I used a few of those and that's the one you see painted in white in the above picture.
Then I finally started to build my own square section with 1mm white plasticard. It's pretty simple to do with a good template so the angles are straight. They are basically glued together. The inner wall separating the indicator in the top and bottom part is also made with white 1mm plasticard.
 
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/718_TWP.jpg)

The 3mm leds are inside the casing and maintained in place with hotglue. The soldering is also inside the casing. the back of the indicator is closed (again with 1mm plasticard) and 2 wires holes are drilled on the outside edge of the back plate. That allows the led wires to go out of the indicator while the center of the backplate is flush and clear of any obstacles so the spring makes good contact with the backplate.
I have no picture of that and I need to open up the full pit but I promise i'll take picture when I update my TWA, hopefully soon.

At some point I considered used small square of acrylic blocs to better diffuse the led light but that made the space inside the casing less available for the light and it was more complicated than really usefull so I abandonned the idea.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/719_TWP.jpg)

Quote
Are all of the buttons 'momentary' in function?
As I said in the other thread:
BMS wise they are all MOM, although some have short press and long presses
Basically, you just need to be able to program them Momentary with hold function
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 09, 2013, 05:26:03 AM
Rather than polluting Henkie's thread, here is a video of the AIC MAN trim panel implementation.
Stick trims on keystrokes (AFAileronTrimLeft/Right & AFElevatorTrimUp/Down and MANTRIMS on analogue values (unmotorized pots)
Needles input from the shared memory

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTOUfw1cpd4
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Moon on June 09, 2013, 07:17:44 AM
Thanks for the video Red Dog.

You show the trims returned to centre when switching from stick trim to override.  What happens when the trim isn't centered when the override occurs?

I imagine that the reason the manual trim wheels move with the stick trim is that when you switch to override the existing trim becomes the starting point for manual changes.

Can this be replicated in the pit, or is it easier and more practical to use your implementation?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Cupra on June 09, 2013, 11:50:51 AM
That TRIM Panel is looking very good  :clap:

When ordering the AIC parts, all of the needed parts are included or did you have to buy potis or other stuff additional?
I am also very interested in AIC, only costs are Holding me back.. and if there are more Investments to make because a lot of samller parts are missing it is nice to know before :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 09, 2013, 01:20:38 PM
Moon,

if the stick trim is not centred when the override occurs, the trim don't reset and the needles stays where they were (offset thus).
But as soon as you start moving the MAN trim wheels, since they are in an analogue position, the software detects that position and the needles default to that position as well.
So needles jump from stick trim position (deenergized then) to the new MAN TRIM position as soon as you move the MAN TRIM) they become now you only way of trimming and they are in sync with the needles as well
So I do not have mismatching trim issues - This implementation never was a problem for me in the countless hours of MP flying I have with the pit :)

Quote
When ordering the AIC parts, all of the needed parts are included or did you have to buy potis or other stuff additional?
Well I had to add the pots, all the rest was in there with the PCB and Mike's panel for it. Nice and easy
I used two ANT Cougar pots
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rufus on June 09, 2013, 02:19:21 PM
One of the things I like about Henkie's solution with the motor pots is that they are two channel - that way one channel can be used for trim command, and the other for another purpose - you can implement two sets of callbacks from them, and that seems helpful.

I should think that the needles should always reflect the actual Trim position regardless of where it was commanded from, shouldn't they?  That would be why the Trim wheels would/should move with the needles - both the needles and the center/zero stripe of the wheels should always agree if the system is operating properly.  The motor pot would take care of that, and the motor could be wired though the AP DISC switch to simply kill it when in DISC and also to switch callback of override of the Trim hat to the sim at the same time.  But the needles should reflect actual surface position/offset and never jump...unless something is wrong.

...or is that not how the jet works?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 09, 2013, 03:27:04 PM
the real one has motorized pots and there is no doubt that it is the most accurate solution in a viperpit. It is also the most complicated probably (well to me at least) and more expensive.

My point is certainly not to question Henkie's great work, but rather the wrong info about the callbacks that was stated in that discussion. As I said there are 20 pits and 20 ways of doing things :) The best one being the one fitting into the time, capability and budget of each builder.
But the source of the information needs to be correct and that is what I intended to ensure :)
We have to remember that some here actually never (or hardly) fly with BMS and fish the forum here for information to implement their system.

My point was to also demonstrate that a trim solution could be done without motorized pots. BMS is all about compromizes and cockpits solutions are as well (again according to builder capabilities and budget amongst other details)
It certainly does affect realism a bit by taking shortcuts but it ends up with a perfectly workable solution using both trims in BMS.

After that each builder decide where he wants to go, implementing the solution that suits him best with his budget, programming skills, dedication to realism and time :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rufus on June 09, 2013, 03:38:37 PM
That's what I love about all this - so many ways to do so many things!

What I was wondering in the tangle though was how the airplane actually works and which way is closest...somewhere in all of this info is the method I'll choose - I just haven't decided which one yet... :notes: ...
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 21, 2013, 04:16:18 AM
Question to admin

Is there a way to save a forum thread as a PDF?


ADMIN NOTE:
Can threads be saved as PDF files?
There is no feature that creates a printout of a forum thread.
I suppose you could "print" each page as a PDF file and then combine them into one PDF file.
Auke is the master of the database, and he could probably dump the forum thread into an file that could be "printed" as a PDF file.  You may have to ask him.
The forum database is actually just variable field ASCII strings with embedded links to the photos and icons.
Your local browser and the forum PHP scripts are what converts the raw database into the pages that you see on the forum
     -SANDMAN


ANSWER TO EDIT
Thanks for the answer Sandman,
Although I feel that if we change the usual way to answer the questions, it may take us a while before we are all accustomed to it :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rufus on June 21, 2013, 02:56:29 PM
Question to admin

Is there a way to save a forum thread as a PDF?


ADMIN NOTE:
Can threads be saved as PDF files?
There is no feature that creates a printout of a forum thread.
I suppose you could "print" each page as a PDF file and then combine them into one PDF file.
Auke is the master of the database, and he could probably dump the forum thread into an file that could be "printed" as a PDF file.  You may have to ask him.
The forum database is actually just variable field ASCII strings with embedded links to the photos and icons.
Your local browser and the forum PHP scripts are what converts the raw database into the pages that you see on the forum
     -SANDMAN


@Sandman - something that could assist here is having the display ALL option as default for every thread.  Then the reader could simply do a browser print; possibly even print to .pdf, though I'm not sure just how that might end up looking in the .pdf given what you say above. 

I've noticed that some threads have the ALL display option and some don't (only the page number), and not being an Admin I've never been able to tell just why that is.  What I've ended up doing is Bookmarking a ton of threads in my own browser - I try to Bookmark them with the ALL inclusion wherever possible.  Something to consider, maybe.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Willy on June 21, 2013, 03:45:31 PM
You can generally always do a File->Save Page As->Web Page, complete (*.htm; *.html) in most Browsers to capture the entire post (assuming you have the ALL option).  I've used this in certain cases.  However, it doesn't result in a nice clean .pdf file.  I'm not even sure that you could get a "nice clean" .pdf file built from a Web Page.

On the other hand, if you don't have the ALL option you have to piece meal it.

Willy
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: salaxi54 on June 21, 2013, 04:38:44 PM
This might be a bit of a pain, but you can always 'pretend' to print a page, by selecting File -> Print from your browser, and then chose Microsoft XPS Document Writer as your printer (so long as you're under Winblows). The result is saved as an .xps file, which afterwards you can convert into a .pdf using something like this: http://download.cnet.com/Free-XPS-to-PDF-Converter/3000-18497_4-75895953.html
Not saying this is the ideal way, just an alternative..  ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on June 21, 2013, 04:47:03 PM
In admin setting I increased from 100 to 500 the articles viewed at once when all is selected, BUT.. I don't see the all option in the threads I visited, maybe a bug in SMF. The old version of SMF in the admin mode you could view the all at once and saved many to PDF, (Years ago)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Sandman on June 23, 2013, 02:13:39 AM
Red Dog-

First, I apologize for using an ADMIN NOTE as a reply above - I appreciate the gentle correction  :-[

I have reset the forum "display page limit", so that ALL pages will be listed, instead of just 5 at a time.  I'm not sure there is an "all pages" option for viewing.

There is now a "Print" option enabled.  The print format will be more like an old fashioned BB format, but it will allow the text of the entire thread to be displayed in entirety.  Photos appear only as the URL links, rather than the actual photos the browser would display.  Better than nothing, but probably less than you had hoped.

You can also take screen shots of the original graphical pages, but a thread of your length would require hundreds of individual screen shots.  Probably not practical.

Kindest Regards,

Mark (SANDMAN)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on June 23, 2013, 04:04:34 AM
No worries Mark,

Thank you for the change; I tried the print option before but the lack of images is a big caveat.
i'll continue trying to find a solution
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: SharkNoir on July 15, 2013, 03:44:28 AM
Hello Olivier,

Very very nice work

One question:
Could you give me the reference TFT screens that you use in your cockpit?

thank you in advance

Olivier, Sharknoir
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 15, 2013, 01:10:50 PM
Welcome back Olivier :) :)

The one in the CP is a Sharp 10.4" LQ104S1DG2 from eBay. I had to enlarge my CP by 6mm to get it fit. I just got rid of the 2 3mm spacer between the outerCP and the Mfds supports

The 2 Lcds for Mfds are Super LG Philips 6.4" LB064V02, eBay as well

the RWR and EHSI LCDs are the same:  3.5" VT035-VX2 www.Avionicslcd.com
expensive but hi res. can't beat them for such small displays IMHO
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: CobaltUK on July 15, 2013, 02:10:16 PM
Hi... Assuming same ebay source  (Hong Kong/maxlzf2008 ?) then it does not appear to have any input controller. How did you overcome that ? Also any knowledge of cheaper LG PHILIPS 6.4-INCH LP064V1 from same source ?
How big is the real RWR ?  Active area of just 2x2 inch on the  VT035-VX2  sounds minute but if RWR is realy that small.....  Never been near a real pit.
Thanks for any info. . . . . .
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on July 15, 2013, 02:57:08 PM
i bought them from Europe somewhere if I recall correctly and I had the controller with the screen :)
The 3.5 is a bit too small compared to the real one. Not by much though. but with its increased resolution, it's perfect for me (and the ATD bezel too)

Resolution in this case is much more important than size, at least with such a small difference between the real and the simulated, IMHO
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: CobaltUK on July 15, 2013, 03:01:02 PM
Thanks...  I will look for other sources in that case
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on August 31, 2013, 07:01:07 PM
RD
535 more views to break 200,000 you must have done something right!! I still look at your pit all the time.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on August 31, 2013, 07:03:58 PM
And Raymond already 178.000   Top Guns of VP :)  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on August 31, 2013, 08:35:05 PM
Someone has to get there first. RD got a plaque for 100k, Ray and I didnt even get noticed. You deserve another one for 200K. Olivier, you are the King! For all the FNG's you should read this thread in it's entirety. There are so many things you can learn that will save you big chunks of time out of your life. I admit that I get frustrated when I read a question from a member that has been answered if they just read the forum. These build threads are one of our best resources. I know I keep saying it but when I joined I literally read every post in every thread. It was drinking from a firehose but I feel I took a big leap ahead on how to approach building a pit by reading this thread, Jay's, Ray's... I could go on and on. Sadly some of the best are now gone due to the lunacy of...well I won't bring it up here.
   I'll say again a big thanks to you, Olivier for sharing the techniques and many pics that were such a HUGE help to me in the beginning and all throughout my build. it really never ends though, does it? I look forward to getting an email notice that you have a new post in your build thread.
   Some of you may not realize that RD is a beta tester for BMS and one of the best contributors to making it what it is today.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on September 01, 2013, 03:07:39 PM
Amen
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Tulkas on September 01, 2013, 03:49:24 PM
Back in 2006 I discovered Viperpits looking for information to put together a few buttons to make an ICP to fly Falcon. Then I saw this damned thread.

Shit! This guy is building a F16 cockpit with MDF and it looks totally real!!! I want to do that too!!!! The rest is history  ;D

Not to mention the charts, BMS dash 1, IFR manual, weapons range, etc... all that has really taken Falcon to a absolute new level for many of us! For the 200K a propose not a plaque but a momument  ;D

Cheers

Tulkas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 03, 2013, 05:05:46 AM
Thanks Dave :)
All has been done with real pleasure trying to repay the debt the even older heads offered me when I needed it.
If the new guys take over that philosophy I'll be the happiest builder around :)

I think the view count have been messed up with one of the past forum crash.
I still look at the 100K plaque quite often with a touch of pride. I have been honored  enough with that very nice present a few years ago and I wish that the honour is made to another great builder on this forum for the 200.000 view hit.

So just consider my thread as "display only" and let it go unnoticed like your and Ray's 100.000 hits
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Raider on September 03, 2013, 05:59:20 AM
[...]

Not to mention the charts, BMS dash 1, IFR manual, weapons range, etc... all that has really taken Falcon to a absolute new level for many of us! For the 200K a propose not a plaque but a momument  ;D

This is awesome. Red Dog, you don't realize the real influence of your work. You are changing people's lifes. I am not sure I'd get where I am with this hobby if not several e-mails exchanged with you years ago. You never ignored any one of them, even though you must receive a LOT of questions :) Thank you for the GREAT, GREAT job, man. You are one of this community's icons.
I agree regarding the monument! :)

Raider
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 03, 2013, 12:42:06 PM
Thanks Raider, I'll take one of your cockpit kits for demonstration purposes :)
you can sign it :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on September 03, 2013, 12:44:59 PM
@Red Dog, can you publice a pic of the reward you received for 100.000 views ?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 03, 2013, 01:04:37 PM
Page 55, early 2008:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/549_award.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on September 03, 2013, 01:10:02 PM
That's realy nice !! You earned it !  Keep up the good work for all of us  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Raider on September 03, 2013, 04:21:01 PM
Thanks Raider, I'll take one of your cockpit kits for demonstration purposes :)
you can sign it :)

 ;D I'll keep that in mind!  :notes:

Raider
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Ka-Bar03 on September 13, 2013, 10:30:22 PM
Yea, sorry guys, not unnoticed..lack of time and the forum had long ago outpaced the single admin load.... I have some helpers now and we will do a better job of tracking things and following through. 200k, well..how do we top that one? another plaque? Will a star work?  ;) You're right Olivier, I think the view count is more and the reset screwed it. The admin will review the view counts and award accordingly. We also will discuss if there are other categories etc.. we can recognise. Apologies to all for not getting awards to the deserved guys, we will do better..

Edit:to clarify, this response if for Nigel and Raymond and other also

Someone has to get there first. RD got a plaque for 100k, Ray and I didnt even get noticed. You deserve another one for 200K. Olivier, you are the King! For all the FNG's you should read this thread in it's entirety. There are so many things you can learn that will save you big chunks of time out of your life. I admit that I get frustrated when I read a question from a member that has been answered if they just read the forum. These build threads are one of our best resources. I know I keep saying it but when I joined I literally read every post in every thread. It was drinking from a firehose but I feel I took a big leap ahead on how to approach building a pit by reading this thread, Jay's, Ray's... I could go on and on. Sadly some of the best are now gone due to the lunacy of...well I won't bring it up here.
   I'll say again a big thanks to you, Olivier for sharing the techniques and many pics that were such a HUGE help to me in the beginning and all throughout my build. it really never ends though, does it? I look forward to getting an email notice that you have a new post in your build thread.
   Some of you may not realize that RD is a beta tester for BMS and one of the best contributors to making it what it is today.
Thanks Dave :)
All has been done with real pleasure trying to repay the debt the even older heads offered me when I needed it.
If the new guys take over that philosophy I'll be the happiest builder around :)

I think the view count have been messed up with one of the past forum crash.
I still look at the 100K plaque quite often with a touch of pride. I have been honored  enough with that very nice present a few years ago and I wish that the honour is made to another great builder on this forum for the 200.000 view hit.

So just consider my thread as "display only" and let it go unnoticed like your and Ray's 100.000 hits

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 19, 2013, 05:27:32 AM
it's been a while i didn't add anything to the pit but lately i got a request from a friend to build a quick and dirty desktop cockpit.
having a couple pairs of TM MFD and the old USB keyboard from Pi Engineering as ICP, i agreed to give it a quick build.

the stuff is really simple and took me no more than a weekend's work. it's all MDF (8 and 3mm)
the idea was to simply provide 2 MFDs (TM), an ICP and by using a Logitech G15, a screen for the DED.
That was all required items for this small desktop pit.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/728_desktop_pit.jpg)

It was nice to be back into building for a week end :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on November 19, 2013, 06:13:36 AM
Cool stuff and great work RD, and yes I think you enjoy to pit build a little again  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: TiTi on February 21, 2014, 04:12:55 PM
Two new functions are implemented, SYS TEST and MSL launch test

link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJIxd6YZtGU&feature=youtu.be

Hi Olivier,

2 questions about this 2 new functions implemented.
I've read in the dash1 that the test function is not implemented in BMS and that the missile launch is only a light. Is it still right ?
The implementation of the test function is really great. How did you proceed to implement it ?

TiTi
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on February 26, 2014, 02:33:33 PM
Soon to a version near you.
Tip of the day: implement push button for all, even the MSL launch :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Cupra on February 26, 2014, 03:10:10 PM
It is always good to impelement all Switches, Buttons and so on, You never know when they come awake :D
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Tulkas on February 26, 2014, 03:20:41 PM
Soon to a version near you.
Tip of the day: implement push button for all, even the MSL launch :)

I suspect is gonna be here in 3-4 weeks! So get ready!  ;D

Wiring my TWP right now, all switches will be connect.

Cheers

Tulkas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on April 24, 2014, 01:32:50 PM
I feel the build bug again.
Must resist... must....must resist


Still I have a few nice projects waiting .... But I can't use two pits at the same time can I..

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/615_backseat_planning.jpg)
must resist .... must resist


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Focaldesign on April 24, 2014, 02:15:25 PM
I feel the build bug again.
Must resist... must....must resist


Still I have a few nice projects waiting .... But I can't use two pits at the same time can I..

(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/615_backseat_planning.jpg)
must resist .... must resist


If you're eager to build, you're welcome to start with mine :D I don't have a clue about electronics, two left hands when it comes to wood/metal work and I lack the time. But I'm stockpiling all the hardware/panels/switches etc. I can get my hands on (if budget permits of course) :D
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nigel on April 25, 2014, 03:13:44 PM
I feel the build bug again.
Must resist... must....must resist
Still I have a few nice projects waiting .... But I can't use two pits at the same time can I..
must resist .... must resist
Yes you can...yes you can...I REALLY want to see your version of this Olivier, it will be awesome and inspire others too as your pit has been from the first day I saw it. I am probably responsible for over half of the 100,000 views.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Geraki on April 25, 2014, 03:31:24 PM
keep "Build piting" Oliver , i am sure  will be amazing result!!! and a new ERA in F-16 training!!! :taz: :vprules:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Snapper on September 13, 2014, 12:07:13 PM
Welcome back Olivier :) :)

The one in the CP is a Sharp 10.4" LQ104S1DG2 from eBay. I had to enlarge my CP by 6mm to get it fit. I just got rid of the 2 3mm spacer between the outerCP and the Mfds supports

The 2 Lcds for Mfds are Super LG Philips 6.4" LB064V02, eBay as well

the RWR and EHSI LCDs are the same:  3.5" VT035-VX2 www.Avionicslcd.com
expensive but hi res. can't beat them for such small displays IMHO

Hi,
I bought the MFD displays you talked about but they are to small for the thrustmaster MFDs. Can you confirm that the ones I bought are the same type you used?
http://www.ebay.de/itm/LG-LCD-Display-LB064V02-640x480-mit-VGA-inkl-Versand-/251452410381 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/LG-LCD-Display-LB064V02-640x480-mit-VGA-inkl-Versand-/251452410381)

For 21 Euros they are still a good deal and I will use them anyway but would be nice to now if you use the same type, because at your pictures the TFTs screens seem to habe the needed size.

Greetings

Snapper
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 14, 2014, 03:19:30 AM
Hey Snapper,

Yep that's the ones I use.
They are indeed a bit too small but I sliced a plastic frame to hide the horizontal edges of the screens behind the mfd frame. I painted the frame in black.
I lost maybe 2mm on each side as I maintained the square ratio (so 4mm in total) but I have no problem with that.

It should be the same on the TM Mfds although I use real ones
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Snapper on September 14, 2014, 07:54:22 AM
Hi Red Dog,

I checked the datasheet of my panel again and had a better look at the type printed on the frame. My panels are LB064V02-A1. I compared them with the LB064V02-TD0 but the active size is the same 130,56 (H) x 97,92 (V). Only diffrence I found is the C/R, I have 300/1 instead of 400/1.

Thx for the advice of the plastic frame. Maybe I can create them useing some plastic sheet for models.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rufus on September 14, 2014, 03:00:44 PM
@Snapper - I bought these 7" LCDs from Chinatobby on a tip from String (I think...) and they fit the Thrustmaster MFD bezels like they they were made for the job.  Just need to mount them centered in the bezel.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VGA-Lcd-controller-board-7inch-CLAA070MA0ACW-800-600-Lcd-panel-/181356375256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a39aeacd8

7" seems to be the magic size.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on September 14, 2014, 03:52:32 PM
7 inch is the way to go 4X3 .. then you still can use real or replica gauges on the right instrument panel.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: sagrzmnky on September 14, 2014, 11:56:04 PM
7 inch is the way to go 4X3 .. then you still can use real or replica gauges on the right instrument panel.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 15, 2014, 05:28:23 AM
I'm grateful for my own progress report :)

I was searching VP for TWP/TWA indicators with pushbuttons and replacing the bulbs with the leds and i found this:

 
Since the very early days I had 2 folding map lights installed under my glareshied but no bulb in there.
Today I decided to see if I could put 5mm white leds in there ...

First thing, take two original bulbs and smash them with a hammer :) keeping only the socket

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/713_led_maplight.jpg)

Then bore two holes for the led's anode and cathode into that casing and Insert the leds pin in there
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/714_led_maplight.jpg)

A bit of solder to secure that in place and a small file to make it level and ensure a good contact.
The new ledbulb can be replaced into the map light and powered...
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/715_led_maplight.jpg)

Only thing left to sort is that on the real map light the ground is provided by the glareshied ...
and the map comes On when deployed.

I have a unused indicator with pushbutton in my stash and i need to implement a new TFR button/indicator in my MISC panel
i'll thus try to interface the indicator i have and replace the bulbs in there with 3mm leds
hopefully i can search VP for a wiring diagram of the indicator, i'm sure someone posted that
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 15, 2014, 08:27:49 AM
that's one, thanks Ski & Henk

http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=9630.msg130372#msg130372

anothre one from Henk:
Quote
This is how I did the disassembly.
1. cut *all* tie-wraps or lace wiring.
    (I also bought 2 boxes, one had the wiring tied with tie-wraps, the other with laced wire.)
2. make all wiring loose (especially the wiring to the Jay-Els).
    Note that it is virtually impossible to pull the wire *with* the connection pin out of the indicator.
    Every time I did that I only had the wire! (Why is explain below).
3. Now that the wiring is loose, you can cut the wires to the Jay-Els at such a length that it is sufficient for your use.
    That is what I did, but in the electrical contraption I plan to build, I need wires of just 1 inch long
4. Using your finger nails pull the lamp block out of the indicator housing.
5. If you look into the opening you see 2 screws between the pins.
6. loosen these two screws. It will release the tiny "hooks" at the side of the clamping bracket.
7. slide the bracket off the housing. Now you can remove the Jay-El.

The connection information is printed on one side of the Jay-El.
Two lamps are connected to pin 2 and 4, the common is pin C
   (2) ----X-----+-----X---- (4)
                      |
                    (C)

The other two lamps are connected to 1 and 3, the common connection is pin 18
   (1) ----X-----+-----X---- (3)
                      |
                   (18)
           
The switch which is on all Jay-Els connected (except one) has the common contact on pin 9, the break contact is pin 10 and the make contact is on pin 11. If you plan to use the push-button functionality and wire it in a switch matrix, you do not need pin 10.
I cut off all wires that I do not need at the rubber. If you do that too, DO NOT MAKE A MISTAKE !   :taz:
The picture of the ECM panel in my build thread shows a lot of wires. That is after cutting off what I did not need ...  ::)

There is one Jay-El that does *NOT* have wires for the switch (IIRC). So check, and decide which Jay-El is going to be used where, keeping this in mind  :notes:

A great tutorial from Snowman about the bulb/ led stuff:
http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=5685.msg126274#msg126274
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Goofy on September 15, 2014, 04:24:57 PM
Red Dog,

I noticed that you also had plans to build a backseat cockpit, is that a reproduction keyboard panel for the rear seat you have or a real one?? If a repro....where did you find it?

Kind Regards,

Chris
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 15, 2014, 05:10:27 PM
it's a real one
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Goofy on September 15, 2014, 05:15:43 PM
Nice!!!.....if you ever consider selling it, let me know! ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 16, 2014, 04:33:54 AM
Will do

Quote
Only thing left to sort is that on the real map light the ground is provided by the glareshied ...
and the map comes On when deployed.

Any one knows how the foldable light works?
I understand the chassis is the common ground and i'd like to avoid that in my pit.
so i need to find a way to ground it while keeping it isolated from the glareshield.
The left side will be a problem, the right side is not as the foldable light is attached in the resin part of the glareshield modification :)

I'm looking at better understand the way the foldable light is activated by rotation?

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rayman on September 16, 2014, 06:24:48 AM
RD, the map light comes on as soon as you rotate it towards you.
By rotating the head you can dim the light.

You could keep it away from the glare by using a nylon bolt, and a nylon washer between the glare and the lightbase.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 17, 2014, 03:26:55 AM
Thanks Ray,

I know all that already ;)

i don't think a nylon washer will do as there is an alignement pin on the light that goes through the glareshield. you can see it on the following picture:
so unless the washer is thick enough and in that case you'll loose the alignement the pin still will make contact.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/714_led_maplight.jpg)

what i'm interested in is the way the 90° rotation thing cuts the ground?
because that's where i want to place my ground into the light - as i still want the spot light to come on when i unfold it from the glareshield

so i'm interested in better understanding the rotation mechanism so i can decide where to bring the ground to the led.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on September 17, 2014, 03:29:20 AM
RD, you can place the gnd everywere on the outside of the lamp. When you use the plastic bolt with washer, there is no contact with the glareshield.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Nikolas_A on September 17, 2014, 11:57:12 AM
Test with a multimeter, it makes more sense that turning it cuts the + voltage, not ground.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 18, 2014, 01:41:31 AM
you're right Nikolas. the rotation cuts the +, not the ground
and then as JJ said, I can put the ground anywhere - I was totally wrong.

Thanks guys

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 21, 2014, 09:48:50 AM
Quote
The switch which is on all Jay-Els connected (except one) has the common contact on pin 9, the break contact is pin 10 and the make contact is on pin 11. If you plan to use the push-button functionality and wire it in a switch matrix, you do not need pin 10.

And of course on the Jay EL I intended to use, Pin 9 and 10 are wired but Pin11 isn't !!!
and I need pin 9&11.

Any of you guys know if it's possible to rewire a pin in the Jay EL
Please note, the wire for 1& isn't cut, it's not present at all
Are there special connector to wire it in?

Any hint I'm taker because without that one I'm afraid I can't use that Jay EL and of course I have only one :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: henkie on September 21, 2014, 10:29:51 AM
RD, I tried to pull out a wire from a not-used contact.
Tried it even again on another pin, but the result is the same: the wire snaps off  :brickwall:

I did not remove the rubber cap to see what is behind it.
I suspect there is not a female pin on the Jay-El body where you can plug in male pin,
but I ASSume that the wire is crimped  :-\  If there is a pin, it might be held in place by the rubber cap ???

You could try (for starters) whether a 1 mm thick pin inserted in position #11 makes contact.
Further, you could remove the rubber cap to see what is behind it ...
If you don't mind, you could connect a tiny (DIL) relay to power on/off via pins #9 and #10,
and use the "make" or "break" relay contact as needed.

- Henk
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 21, 2014, 10:41:13 AM
Thanks Henk

Quote
You could try (for starters) whether a 1 mm thick pin inserted in position #11 makes contact.
that works, I tried already, but of course it doesn't hold in place :)

Quote
Further, you could remove the rubber cap to see what is behind it ...
I'm trying to remove it, but I'm afraid it will be wasted.
It seems the back end of the JayEl is riveted in or glued in and hardly possible to take it apart.

Quote
If you don't mind, you could connect a tiny (DIL) relay to power on/off via pins #9 and #10,
and use the "make" or "break" relay contact as needed.
Yeah, not sure I want to do that - I'll be quicker to create a btn/indicator from scratch
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Biggles on September 21, 2014, 06:20:04 PM
@RD, a normal connector removal tool will do the trick.

The cheap ones on ebay are those half white half red insert/retraction tools for connectors.

You can have one from me, but then you have to be patience as i am in Costa Rica right now.

Biggles
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 24, 2014, 02:47:49 AM
Thanks Biggles. I'll probably write the Jay El off and create my own.

In the meantime I am working on the total current draw of the pit.
I'm posting my findings here for reference in case they are useful to others (or me in the future :) )


This post is complete and has been updated with the 4 circuits posted in the coming pages
theoric (documented) values are red
 measured values are green

I have been using the search function on VP the last couples days to try to confirm my findings:
I have 4 voltage: 5 - 12 - 24v and a single 15v for the speedbrake indicator

5v:
. 3 AIC lightboard installed leds rated at 30mA/5v that's 32leds per lightboard - 3 lightboards: 960 mA  
I measured those at 5v with all leds lighted and they (all 3) draw 420mA
center 32 leds: 160mA
Left 32leds : 160mA
Right 32 leds: 100 mA

. 2 Real Mfds:
they are documented at 2.8A @5v
http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=2924.msg79349#msg79349
I measured those at 2.75A @5v for both MFD, no dimming, so it matches

I currently use 2 power supplies 5v at 4A each
I'm looking to replace them with a single PS 5v 5A  

Some more stuff at 5v measured:
Speedbrake backlight 5v: 320 mA
Nuclear panle backlight white: 340mA
8days clock backlight 5v: 310mA

See below for a complete diagram of the 5V circuit
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/RD_layout_5v.jpg)

12v:
. 3 AIC boards (left, center, right console) : the AIC manual recommends to use 12v 3-4A for each AIC board - probably a bit on the safe side.  It also states that a single good stabilized power supply at 12v 4A  is enough to power the whole AIC setup.
AIC needs obviously depend on what is connected and what is active.
Idling, AIC (full setup) needs around 270ma
software launched, AIC needs 100mA more = 370mA
ALL lights ON, AIC needs 120 mA more = 490 mA
if the instrument backlight are turned on at 100%, 130 mA are needed more = 620 mA
I expect the need to rise as some panels are active and fluctuating so I'd rate AIC needs in my pit to 1Amp.


. Ghost DED: The measured need is very low but was crosschecked multiple times: 10mA  

. external screen:
The measured amperage is different than the documented amperage for the screens. They all need more than documented. I rated them at 1250mA with their documented value, when I measure their needs, I'm close to 2130mA

. Spot lights on glareshield (leds replacing bulbs): very low need: less than 10mA each led

. El sheets complete setup at 12v:
according to Mike, the full set shouldn't draw more than 2A (documented value, not measured): http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=3093.msg40922#msg40922
I measured my total set for EL sheets at 1.75A @12v

Please note my total set is full cockpit minus the following panels:
- BUP/UHF - FLCS - MISC - INSTR mode - FUEL QTY TEST - O2 - Nuke

Notice that when measured with the rest of the cockpit, when i turn the elsheets ON (100%) they need 1A.
At 50% they need 540mA

See below for the 12v circuit diagram, the whole circuit is now powered by a 12.A 12v PS
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/RD_layout_12v.jpg)


15v:
Speedbrake indicator needs 15v
it's currently supplied by a single PS rated at 1.9A @15v.
i haven't measured what it really needs yet
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/RD_layout_15v.jpg)


24v:

. 9 floodlights rated 125 mA @ 24v  
  I measured each flood light separately and they draw 120 mA at 24v. matching values as well
. 4 mag switch rated 100 mA @ 24v  
When measured each draw 90mA at 24V
. Drit's ICP backlight (leds): I measured it at 80mA

So my total need for 24v is 1.53A
My current single PS is 24v 2.7A

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/RD_layout_24v.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: henkie on September 24, 2014, 03:01:51 AM
Thanks RD,

those are useful figures   :thumbsup:
You write "rated" - are the data (Amps) from spec sheets or actual measured values ???

Of course, the Amps really depend on the hardware, but it is a nice indication for power supply selection,
and (very important) proper diameter cabling and appropriate fuses.

I am a little surprised to see that 1.5 Amps for the Speed Brake Indicator.
I will have a good look at that. Maybe implement some current limiting electronics for its life-time operation
(well, at least for as long as I live  :harhar:)

Thanks,
- Henk
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Tulkas on September 24, 2014, 05:01:52 AM
Very interesting data indeed. This part of the cockpit really worries me due to my lackof knowledge. In fact I have not started to feed all the outputs and I am not planing to do until the very end of the building when I can plan a good integral and safe solution. I was planing to use this:

http://docs-europe.electrocomponents.com/webdocs/0ad2/0900766b80ad2ead.pdf

But your numbers are making me change my mind, I will be short of A. Maybe I have to go for individual PS for each voltage needed. My setup is pretty similar to yours but I use the original Jay-El bulbs and no real MFD.

(very important) proper diameter cabling and appropriate fuses.

Can you point to some good information regardins which kind of cables should we be using for the different loads? It just gets so complicated when you try to find this kind of simple information on the net.

Thanks

Tulkas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: henkie on September 25, 2014, 04:43:55 AM
(very important) proper diameter cabling and appropriate fuses.
Can you point to some good information regardins which kind of cables should we be using for the different loads? It just gets so complicated when you try to find this kind of simple information on the net.

This is the table that I use  :whistle:

=============================================================
       |  diameter in mm  | diameter in mm2 |   application
 AWG   |    (thickness)   |  (surface area) |       or
number | mininum  maximum | minimum maximum | maximum current
=======+==================+=================+================
 28    |   0.32     0.36  |   0.08    0.10  | small signal
 26    |   0.40     0.45  |   0.13    0.16  | small signal
 24    |   0.51     0.57  |   0.20    0.26  |    1 Amp
 22    |   0.64     0.72  |   0.33    0.41  |
 20    |   0.81     0.91  |   0.52    0.65  |    2 Amp
 18    |   1.02     1.15  |   0.82    1.04  |    4 Amp
 16    |   1.29     1.45  |   1.31    1.65  |    6 Amp
 14    |   1.63     1.83  |   2.08    2.62  |   10 Amp
 12    |   2.05     2.30  |   3.31    4.17  |  12.5 Amp
 ============================================================
 

But there is more, although I don't think we have to worry about that.
There is also a "derating" factor which applies if you run wires against each other (a "cable of wires").
You guessed: if you have a cable of wires, the individual wires should have a larger cross-section/diameter.
But, as said, I don't think we have to worry about that.

Note that you always have to look at the total current.
For example, the Right Console lighting. There are a few bulbs in there (let's assume 4).
Let's assume the power starts at the "front side", and that each bulb is rated 1.5 Amps.
According to the table, each bulb must be wired using AWG 22, or better AWG 20 (in Europe 0.5 mm2).
*BUT* that is only correct if the wires run from the bulb directly to the power supply.
If you connect the wires from the power supply to the first bulb,  then from first to next bulb, etc.,
and finally to the last bulb, only the wires to the last bulb will "get" 1.5 Amps. The cable from the
power supply to the first bulb must be rated for 4 * 1.5 Amps = 6 Amps !  (AWG16 or 1.5 mm2)

Side note.
If you use PWM-based dimming for the Console bulbs, I'd advise shielded wiring!

- Henk
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 28, 2014, 07:38:19 AM
thanks Henkie, that's usefull as well

The WIP post has been updated with new information as I spend part of the weekend to measure current

on the TFR front, as often  I ended up writing off the real part to the benefit of a replica or something homemade.
The TFR pushbutton was made as the TWP and TWA.
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/733_TFR_btn.jpg)
While installing it in the MISC panel, I took the opportunity to add the EL sheeet
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/734_MISC_backlight.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rufus on September 28, 2014, 02:51:21 PM
@RD...I think you may have just convinced me to do green lighting!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 29, 2014, 04:04:27 AM
Spending a bit of time in the elerctonic stores i usually get my stuff from, i think I found a decent solution to isolate the spot lights from the glareshield

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/735_spotlight_washer.jpg)

i found some plastic parts that apparently were intended to mark where older potentiometers were pointed; it's a small washer with a pointing end and 3 pins
the spotlight is screwed on the glareshield but there is an alignment pin i diodn't wanted to loose.
i cut two of the 3 pin and enlarged just a bit the alignement hole in the glareshield so the remaining pin from the washer can go in
On the other side of the washer i drilled a hole so the locating pin from the spot light can go in

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/736_spotlight_washer.jpg)

insert the led, test and it fits perfectly
the only problem remaining is finding a decent nylon screw. the one i have are too loose and don't screw the light tight enough. As always finding imperial screws is a relally pain here, and the fact that it can't be metal doesn't make it any easier :)

Next step beside the usual maintenance in progress is to study a way to lower the amperage from the Mfds.
i could try to repalce the bulbs with smd leds as Arend made or simply remove the original ones in favour of thrustmasters one...

while the pit is open, i'll also try to implement a solution for my ICP lacking the wheelset kit. 
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on September 29, 2014, 05:52:39 AM
In model aircraft there are often plastic screws used, maybe you can find in those shops the right one.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: uri_ba on September 29, 2014, 07:37:26 AM
rD, wouldn't it be simpler to use a ATX PSU for the 12v supply? Some can provide 45amps on the 12v bus alone (they have also 5v buses with 24A)


Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on September 29, 2014, 01:10:45 PM
Thanks JJ, i'll have a look. but there aren't many RC aircraft stores here either :)

Uri,
Well I considered those but I don't trust them (i've seen a few burn out)
One of the biggest drawing for me is noise. I hate fans and those computer PS fans are Noisy.
So I'm using now Meanwell PS which don't need fans and are not warming up either.
I was able to replace 6 or 7 different PS with only one per voltage - all fan less - and all with plenty of amps to spare.
the last one a bit on the edge is the 5v having a capability of 5A and drawing 3.7

my house has a general fuse of only 16 amps :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Willy on October 01, 2014, 02:21:13 PM
RD,

Would you pass along the Meanwell Model #'s of the ones you are using?  I need to migrate to PS / Voltage as well.

Willy
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mrwell on October 02, 2014, 06:59:13 AM
+1 here
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 02, 2014, 07:31:00 AM
Sure guys,

The new ones I bought to replace the multiple small Vellemans are the following

Meanwell Rs-25-5: 5v - 25W => 5A
(http://www.powergatellc.com/images/product/RS-25.jpg)

Meanwell Rs-150-12: 12v - 150W => 12.5A
(http://www.powergatellc.com/images/product/RS-150.jpg)

Meanwell  Rs-150-24: 24v - 150W => 6.5A
(http://pge.powergatellc.com/images/RS-150.png)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: mrwell on October 02, 2014, 11:56:26 AM
Thanks!  :notes:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 08, 2014, 07:54:21 AM
Continuing my measurment of the Amperage in my pit:
the post above has been update with the final amperage for my 5v:
All data now measured

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/RD_layout_5v.jpg)

Without the small backlight extra currently disconnected on the right console i need 3.6A in total
With those connected, I need 4.25A

In both case => my 5A Ps is enough
Although I was pretty surprised to learn that such a lower voltage actually draw so many amps !
If you guys use real panels backlight and bulbs, you'll need a lot of power !!!!


Question: if the PS is 5A, my need 4.25A  what fuse would you suggest I use: 4.5A ?

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on October 08, 2014, 08:17:39 AM
I have 150 Amps in front of the pit  ;)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on October 08, 2014, 08:27:15 AM
Yes RD, a full set of real panels, icp, mfd´s ect. draws over 40 amps, thats why "WE" have some challenge here :-)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on October 08, 2014, 08:27:52 AM
I have 150 Amps in front of the pit  ;)

hehe thats why you see smoke sometimes :-)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: ReaperAT on October 08, 2014, 08:36:38 AM
You guys brought something to my mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju-OBU7uTyc

 :biggrin:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on October 08, 2014, 08:56:51 AM
Kukki, you forget the inside wall lighting : 26 Amps  :o
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 08, 2014, 09:02:41 AM
lol Reaper, that's exaclty the scene i had in mind as well when i discussed this with a squadmate :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 09, 2014, 02:17:08 AM
150 amps, what a waste :)

Continuing my measurement with the 24v circuit:
initial WIP post updated

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/RD_layout_24v.jpg)

So my total need for 24v is 1.53A
& My current single PS is 24v 2.7A, so all good
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Tulkas on October 09, 2014, 05:39:11 AM
Very, very useful RD. Thanks for taking the time to make this graphics.

One question, when using the AIC lightboards, are you connecting the current to the lightboard or directly to the lights/indicators? I think that's what I understand from drawings...

Cheers

Tulkas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 09, 2014, 06:07:03 AM
glad it's useful Tulkas.
I figured that if i struggle with this, i shouldn't be the only one :)

the 24v ground is connected to the AIC lightboard to provide 24v ground to the AIC driven magswitches
it's the black wires of the 24v cisrcuit on the drawing i posted
those are connected on the ground pin of the lightbit , therefore providing 24v ground to the coil of the switch (that wire is not on the drawing - but maybe i should add them)
the 24v vcc (+) is connected straight to the magswitch. it certainly does not touch the AIC lightboard
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: henkie on October 09, 2014, 11:28:11 AM
nice job RD  :thumbsup:

I am working on a similar approach, but I just drew blocks representing the panels of the right side console.
I am too lazy to import a graphics representation, although I am reconsidering now  :harhar:   :notes:
Using the graphical representation I could add text and remarks as I want ..., hhhhhhmmmm

BTW, the drawing of the power supply wiring gives a very useful overview ... you can clearly see where you would like to add a fuse  :whistle:

- Henk
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 09, 2014, 01:09:38 PM
you mean just before the PS?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JCook on October 09, 2014, 07:46:39 PM
Thanks for that picture Red Dog - it will be useful when I start planning my wiring.
 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: henkie on October 10, 2014, 02:15:42 AM
It is always good to add a fuse in the primary side of the power supply (the "230/115V AC side).
But it is also good practice to add a fuse in every cable that runs some distance. And then you put the fuse at the "feed side". The idea is that a long(er) cable is more likely to get damaged, so you want the fuse not at the end of the cable, thus protecting only what is connected, but having the fuse at the beginning of the cable also protects the (long) cable itself.

Another thought to have a fuse in the wiring is wiring that "moves" (higher chance of cable damage). Thus I will have a fuse in the wiring to the utility lights and glareshield flood lights.

I also thought it would be a good idea to fuse the console flood lights, because of the high currents. But in your drawing it states only 125 mA, that's hardly "high" current. However, being long(er) wires, chance of cable damage increases, and although the lamps draw just 125 mA (in total 600 mA), a fuse is still a good idea, because in a short circuit condition the current will go up to what the power supply can deliver ... and *that* might be a lot more ...

An other tip: the fuse(s) must be rated in accordance with the cabling. That is, if a wire is "good" for 1 Amp, it makes no sense to add a 10 Amp fuse. In the short circuit condition, the wire is the fuse to protect the fuse  ::)

just my thoughts (and what will be done in my pit),
- Henk
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: henkie on October 10, 2014, 04:38:03 AM
Here is my preliminary Right Side Console wiring diagram.
It is still a WIP, but drawings help (me) to focus thoughts. And paper is *very* patient  :harhar:

You may notice that the power supply is named "xx DIM". I use separate power supplies for everything that is on dimmer (PWM) channels, including the PSU. Logic and all other stuff that is not "dimmable" has their own power supply. Yes, I go to rigorous measures to prevent EMC trouble in the future!

I foresee (at this moment) 4 resettable fuses for the Right Side Console.
To understand, all electronics and power supplies will be behind the Center Console.

- Henk
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 12, 2014, 05:11:05 AM
Thanks Henkie.

I'm concluding this project with the 12v circuit, xwhich is by far the most complicated
12v is supplied to CP screens (5), AIC (for instrument backlight and different specific panels such as CMDS, BUP, TRIM, AUXCOMS), Ghost's DED and both newly implemented led spotlights.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/RD_layout_12v.jpg)

Some remarks/comments:
. The PS is 12.5A and my measured need is just a bit less than 5A (4.67) So I have more than enough
. The measured amperage is different than the documented amperage for the screens. They all need more than documented. I rated them at 1250mA with their documented value, when I measure their needs, I'm close to 2130mA

. AIC needs obviously dépends on what is connected and what is active.
Idling, AIC needs around 270ma
software launched, AIC needs 100mA more = 370mA
ALL lights ON, AIC needs 120 mA more = 490 mA
if the instrument backlight are turned on at 100%, 130 mA are needed more = 620 mA

. As expected, the 2 leds spotlights don't need much: less than 10mA each
Ghost DED does not need much either. I measured it at 10 mA

. when measured alone, EL sheet needs 1.75A
When measured with the rest, when i turn the elsheets ON (100%) they need 1A. At 50% they need 540mA

. With all system running and me sitting in the pit flying, the need oscillates but averages to 3.6A without El sheets and 4.6A with El sheet at 100%
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: henkie on October 14, 2014, 01:33:18 AM
I have drawn fuses (red rectangles) in the attached diagram.
Long wires and high current wires are fused.
I also put fuses in the power supply to the AIC boards. If something connected to the AIC outputs has a short circuit, perhaps the fuse will blow, protecting the AIC board  :whistle:
However, I do not know the AIC boards, so I do not know how well their outputs are protected. Not only protected for a real short circuit, but also protected against a "semi short circuit" which causes a high current from the output.
Protecting the +12V to the "buzzers" (EL converters  ;D ) might also be a good idea. If the EL output side short circuits against the frame (not completely unthinkable) the fuse might prevent to much damage.
I guess common sense will help to install fuses in "critical" locations. I can image that it is quite some work to add fuses in an already wired pit ... the more reason to draw a wiring plan before you start  :harhar:
As Red Dog did, it is good to measure the currents under several conditions  :thumbsup: This gives you an idea how much current is normal, and it helps to dimension the fuses. If max current is some 500 mA, it is pointless to add a 5A fuse ...

- Henk
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 15, 2014, 02:13:36 AM
Thank you very much again Henkie
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 25, 2014, 03:06:46 AM
Testing the new foldable spotlights, before attaching the wires:

The left one is installed as normal, I still haven't found a suitable nylon screw but that will come:
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/738_left_foldlight.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/739_left_foldlight.jpg)

The right one is installed at an uncommon location. Normally, it should be on the right of the DED on a special holder but I decided to place mine more to the side (where my glareshield is resin and therefore not conductive - eliminating the need for a nylon screw) It's hardly seen in real F-16 but I have seen this configuration at least once in a Belgian MLU. Beside the placement suits me just fine :)
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/742_right_foldlight.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/743_right_foldlight.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/740_right_foldlight.jpg)

The result with the led lights on the kneemap
(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/744_kneemap.jpg)



And a new CRU-60 courtesy of Goofy is now installed in the right side of the pit.
The holder is one of the resin pièces made by Dunk. it stayed in it's box for a long time, it's now installed as well :)
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/737_CRU60.jpg)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Tulkas on October 25, 2014, 04:41:58 AM
Nice! I am facing exactly the same challenges with my two real map lights so I take note of your progress. Do you mean that the left one is so far grounded to the glareshield?

Cheers

Tulkas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on October 25, 2014, 04:56:10 AM
no I mean I don't have to isolate the map light from the glareshield, because the glareshield is resin where the map light is attached. Therefore, it isn't conductive and I can use the original metal screw.
The ground wire is attached on the map light at the pivot point
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 06, 2014, 07:24:23 AM
You guys know I have been debating to do something for a portable desktop pit, well I might just have what I need to start one afterall.
I had many of the component but thanks to a very nice swap last week with JJ, I was able to get a backseat panel to link all my stash elements together

Here are some inspirational and motivating pictures :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/749_backseat.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/750_backseat.jpg)
Just a screen back there and i should be able to activate many items. The Mfds are TM and I don't plan on adding the case behind the real one as I want to keep the screen setup as simple as possible (read use 1 only).
The ICP is a real one and although I will have to adapt the panel frame, the ATD will fit right in as well :)
I need some more stuff to populate the area, but that's a really great start for the coming winter long nights :)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/751_backseat.jpg)
I even have an older block CP to support the panel, although I don't think I'll use it.

thanks JJ :)
I'll follow Goofy's lead
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on November 06, 2014, 09:04:08 AM
WOW RD that looks so fricking nice....I just knew you couldn't stop building :-)

That is a really cool setup you get there, so you will fly the backseat when going to LAN´s ?
or is it an experiment to you full pit, when you have somebody over, and then he can jump into the jet with you :-)
Anyway I love the setup there.  super collections.

Kukki
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Goofy on November 06, 2014, 09:38:06 AM
Cool!!!
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: raptor on November 06, 2014, 11:19:26 AM
Just perfect..
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 06, 2014, 11:28:19 AM
Quote
That is a really cool setup you get there, so you will fly the backseat when going to LAN´s ?
or is it an experiment to you full pit, when you have somebody over, and then he can jump into the jet with you :-)
That would be neat ,indeed. Place the backseat behind the main pit and fly lan when i get visitors ... gosh i 'd need another aces :)
Luckily the current pit is too close to the back wall, so i'm afraid it won't be possible to set it up.
Wasn't it stephane (douxx) who started in such a two seat cockpit in Canada?

but yeah, ultimately the goal of the backseat would be to go to LANs sometime
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on November 06, 2014, 12:14:08 PM
Hehe Cool RD, and yes it was Stephane, he still have that big monster, but I think he put it away for some years now, I haven't heard from him in years, but I hope he will come back some day.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: tiger-31 on November 06, 2014, 12:48:59 PM
Hello RD,

Mega cool project. Looking forward to seeing it get build.

Did your wife perhaps take control over the front seat cockpit, that you need a backseater cockpit as well? :-P

Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 06, 2014, 01:17:12 PM
Well my son is growing up :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: tiger-31 on November 06, 2014, 01:19:52 PM
Well my son is growing up :)

I hope he will enjoy the sim with "dad".  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: JJ on November 06, 2014, 02:23:55 PM
Damn nice panel you have there  :harhar: :harhar:

BTW.. it's a D-Version for the guys who wants to know the difference between B and D blocks
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: sagrzmnky on November 13, 2014, 03:04:17 AM
Lol, thanks Michi. I guess that will remain unsolved for now. I will simply lift up my CP by 4mm and that will do the trick.

In the meantime, I started converting my helmet ...

Pilots have the NVG kit, we have the TIR kit  :D
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/461_tirhelmet.jpg)
I started by switching visor as the original one is completely scratchfree and this one is already scratched. For the use I will have, I don't mind.
Then I attached 3 IR spheres (the kind used in hospitals for tracking purposes) the spheres are attached exactly as the Vector expansion has the IR pastils placed on your cap.
For the moment, they are attached with bluetack, but if further test are good enough, I will bore through the visor to attach them.
(http://www.candyparty.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/462_tirhelmet.jpg)
The good thing is that I can switch visor and get a collector helmet again :)

Initial flight tests were pretty good. I was a lilttle concerned that the smooth surface of the visor might create interference but so far, none were detected...

I hate flying with a cap for the TIR, flying with this stuff is even more scarier  :D

RD, I know this was quite a while back, but how well did these sphere's work out with Trackir, and if they worked out well, where could I possibly get some?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 13, 2014, 03:45:50 AM
They work super great.

Matter of fact i have the old TIR4 with the frame to place on a hat and i removed the frame and screwed 3 such IR balls on my usual hat.
it works so much better than the default curved IR reflector and i never loose the signal, especially when going heads down in the pit.

they were distributed by a french guy who is unfortunately deceased in the meantime.
their application was in hospitals to track body part if i remember right.
I was never able to trace them back and buy a few more.

I never used that helmet, it was just a fun project, but today i use it to record some of my pit sequences with a gopro and the 3 ir balls on the visor. I sacrified the visor to screw the balls on and to glue the gopro support.
i should release a new ramp start vid soon
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: sagrzmnky on November 14, 2014, 01:59:43 AM
They work super great.

Matter of fact i have the old TIR4 with the frame to place on a hat and i removed the frame and screwed 3 such IR balls on my usual hat.
it works so much better than the default curved IR reflector and i never loose the signal, especially when going heads down in the pit.

they were distributed by a french guy who is unfortunately deceased in the meantime.
their application was in hospitals to track body part if i remember right.
I was never able to trace them back and buy a few more.

I never used that helmet, it was just a fun project, but today i use it to record some of my pit sequences with a gopro and the 3 ir balls on the visor. I sacrified the visor to screw the balls on and to glue the gopro support.
i should release a new ramp start vid soon
Right now I have the curved reflector clip taped to the visor. Maybe I can buy some of the reflective tape from the Naturalpoint website and stick it to some kind of little ball that I can screw to the visor. Do you have an idea of what size they are?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 14, 2014, 10:45:20 AM
they are 11.2mm in diameter

but I may have a solution and might have sourced 30 of them (10 sets)
they don't come cheap as they are for hospital material and i need to ensure they aren't sterile (that drives the cost very high)
i estimate the price for a set of three around 20-25€ pending confirmation

Interested?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Tulkas on November 14, 2014, 11:32:59 AM
I am interested.

Cheers

Tulkas
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: sagrzmnky on November 14, 2014, 12:51:05 PM
Sure. I am still interested. I can get an extra visor from flight helmet. If these work better than the clip, then I am all for that.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 14, 2014, 01:27:18 PM
I'll see what's the answer of the supplier first, then i'll update you gents
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: MrBones on November 14, 2014, 02:15:59 PM
I'd love a set too Red Dog.  If we get enough US buyers, it might make it easier on you to ship to one person for distribution to the other members.

Mike
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: sagrzmnky on November 14, 2014, 02:25:00 PM
I'd love a set too Red Dog.  If we get enough US buyers, it might make it easier on you to ship to one person for distribution to the other members.

Mike

I think a new thread should be started for it though. Others may be interested, but not know what conversation is going on in RD's build thread.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on November 14, 2014, 05:58:54 PM
I agree, but I need to get things organized first. When i'm ready i'll open a new topic
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: sagrzmnky on November 15, 2014, 03:07:09 AM
 
I agree, but I need to get things organized first. When i'm ready i'll open a new topic

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on December 09, 2014, 02:05:41 PM
The IR tracking spheres have been delivered and tested.
15 sets of 3 available:
http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=9842.new#new
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 03, 2015, 04:43:54 AM
Finally was Lucky to score a Hud replica from Romanski before the holidays. I t was made by Cage and I think I saw the same on Falcas and Arend's pits at Lelystad a couple years back.
I was concerned it might not fit my HUD support but when I received it went straight from the box to the cockpit and it fit like a glove.

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/752_Hud.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/753_Hud.jpg)

(http://www.ravico.com/ST/cockpit/viper2/754_Hud.jpg)

Perfect item to give a nice finished look to the pit :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Kukki on January 03, 2015, 07:23:05 AM
Great addOn RD, looks perfect for you super pit  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: tiger-31 on January 03, 2015, 11:06:58 AM
The hud looks great RD. From earlier posts I had the impression you were not much of a fan of using a hud. What changed your mind?
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: sagrzmnky on January 03, 2015, 02:19:51 PM
Money... :outthewindow: :D
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Rufus on January 03, 2015, 03:31:47 PM
Beyond fantastic... :hail: !
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: AiRdAncE on January 03, 2015, 05:43:11 PM
That's absolutely awesome, RD!!! :cheerleader:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 04, 2015, 03:53:37 AM
Lol Philip, nice icon :)
"That" money will be reinvested into one of Martin's Pfld. this was brewing before

Quote
The hud looks great RD. From earlier posts I had the impression you were not much of a fan of using a hud. What changed your mind?

I didn't change my mind, this one is purely cosmetic when I don't fly the pit. It gives a very nice & finished look of the pit, but it's not functionnal and I even dare remove it when i fly because then it becomes an annoyance.

I'm in awe with you guys tests on getting a real HUD solution but at this time I am not convinced it's a practical solution in the pit and I'm staying away from it.
the technical side of it and the constraints it implies are just something I'm not ready to do yet :)
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: tiger-31 on January 05, 2015, 10:35:46 AM
Did you make any special system to quickly attach and remove the hud? Or is it just free standing?

The reason why I'm asking is because I'm considering to make a removable setup, but stable enough when in use.
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: String on January 05, 2015, 08:51:26 PM
RD, You were one of the first with a High Fidelity HUD; I have been waiting for years to see a HUD frame & glass on you PIT. 

Maybe the annoyance of the HUD frame will add to the realism?

Looks just AMAZING!!!

String
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Wolverine on January 06, 2015, 01:53:01 AM
Unreachable!  :hail:
Title: Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
Post by: Red Dog on January 06, 2015, 12:51:59 PM
Did you make any special system to quickly attach and remove the hud? Or is it just free standing?

The reason why I'm asking is because I'm considering to make a removable setup, but stable enough when in use.

It does fit right in, no attachement, and it�