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Author Topic: Willy's Pit  (Read 243104 times)

Offline Kukki

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Re: Willy's Pit
« Reply #660 on: May 26, 2018, 10:35:37 AM »
CPY gents, I will chk too.

What I meen is the physical switch, there is switches with on, on, on  how how can that change state ? in the sw.
Whae i mesure with my instrument then there is the same connection on them all. 

well I wight dig int that some more and see if I can explain it better.
Kukki - (Skype: kukki_22)

Offline Marvin

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Re: Willy's Pit
« Reply #661 on: May 26, 2018, 11:09:59 AM »
Willy,

Thank you for this information.   I bought a bunch of these about a year ago and haven't used them yet, but I suspected they would be suitable.  This information strengthens my belief.

Jody

Kukki,

I think you may have misunderstood me (either that or I'm not understanding what you are saying).  Forgive me if the following is info that you (probably) already know.  However, it may be useful info for others.

The "ON-ON" switch designation means that the switch is a Single Pole, Double Throw two position switch.  It has three terminals: a common terminal and two other terminals. The common terminal makes contact with one of the other two terminals depending on the switch position.  The ON-OFF-ON version has the same three terminals but is a three position switch which has a center off position that the ON-ON does not have.  In that position, neither of the two terminals are connected to the common.

I've been using all varieties of these switches as well as the momentary versions which are denoted by the "()" designation.  For example, the (ON)-OFF-ON designation means it is a three position (center off) switch with one position being momentary.  I've had zero problem with these switches being interfaced via the Pokeys.  You just need to know how to configure them to get the proper function. 

The key to configuring the ON-OFF-ON three position switch in Pokeys is that you need to configure the Digital Input for the two terminals of the ON-OFF-ON switch using the "Triggered Input" option.  That option "triggers" a single keystroke to be sent to BMS only when the Digital Input changes state. 

Here's an example for my HUD panel for the VV/VAH switch.  It has one terminal of the ON-OFF-ON switch connected to Digital Input 1 and the other terminal connected to Digital Input 2.  This is how Input 1 (the "VV/VAH" position) is configured.
2018-05-26_8-34-20.jpgWilly's Pit

Notice that Pokeys Digital Inputs are normally inverted so you have to use the "Key Up" for when the Digital Input is "ON" and "Key Down" when it is OFF.  This confused me initially but once you understand it, it is no problem.  Here's the configuration for Digital Input 2 (which is the OFF position of the VV/VAH switch).
2018-05-26_8-46-10.jpgWilly's Pit

The key here is that both Digital Inputs 1 & 2 are programmed to send the middle "VAH" switch position keystroke when the switch is moved to the OFF position.  Works like a Champ!

Hopefully this helps others that are using Pokeys for their input.  Oh, have I said before that I love the Pokeys57U's?  Yes, I think I have.  :)
 
" Where's the KABOOM! "

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Offline mrwell

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Re: Willy's Pit
« Reply #662 on: May 26, 2018, 02:21:12 PM »
I agree with Marvin. What I do is to wire the on-on as two different on-off switches with same common or as a 3 position on-off-on one. The only difference is that there is never an off position.
Cheers

Offline Rufus

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Re: Willy's Pit
« Reply #663 on: May 26, 2018, 02:31:04 PM »
This furthers a debate I've been having with myself since I began my own project...it seems to me that hardware OFF can be or become an ambiguous state in software, and so I've noodled that I want all of my switches to be ON in all positions even if the state sent to the BMS callback is for an OFF - by using all ON switch states it would seem I'd always be in positive control of the interface, and any problem would be easier to trace to an open circuit.  In theory...

...however...I think as it has turned out I have some OFF state switches in my collection, and so I'll have to resort to inverting those signals in software.  Either way works, it's just up to your own approach as to what to do and how.
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Offline Willy

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Re: Willy's Pit
« Reply #664 on: May 28, 2018, 11:35:13 PM »
With the help of a couple of Ham Radio buddies, I managed to complete both the L. and R. Po8Relay assemblies.  Here's the R. Relay Assembly.
2018-05-28_22-11-31.jpgWilly's Pit

These Po8Relay Assemblies are driven via the PoExtBus from two different Pokeys57U's in my pit.  The L. Relay Assembly is a mirror image but currently with only 4 Po8Relay boards.  Eventually it will contain 6 Po8Relay boards which should drive all Lights, Indicators and Mag Switches on the left side of the pit with the exception of the ECM panel.  However, since it is not implemented in BMS, I don't see any need to interface it.  At least not at this time.

A couple of notes on using those TE-AMP plastic circular connectors.  It turns out that the 28, 57 and 63 pin varieties use the very small #20 crimp pins.  This is the Insertion/Extraction tool recommended for those connectors/pins/sockets.
2018-05-28_22-24-06.jpgWilly's Pit

First of all, most crimpers don't do a good job of crimping these #20 pins/sockets.  I found that I had to touch up the crimp with Needle Nose pliers so that they would fit easily into the connector shell.  (I'm pretty sure that this was made worse for me by the fact that I'm using real Teflon aviation wire whose insulation is slightly smaller in diameter than most wire.) 

If you don't pay attention to getting a nice crimp with everything straight and no "extra" things sticking out, the pins/sockets don't insert easily.  Then it is pretty much impossible to remove them with the White part of the Insertion/Extraction tool.  Also, #22 wire is about the largest you can easily use.  You can crimp and insert a #20 AWG wire BUT, you'll probably never get the Extraction Tool over the thick #20 insulation so you can't get the Extraction tool into the shell to remove a pin.  The #22 wire is not a problem IF you make sure you have good, nice straight crimps.

Unfortunately, this is a case of you get what you pay for.  These connectors are a lot cheaper than the MIL-SPEC 82723 variety BUT with the right Daniels Crimper you can almost always Insert or Remove pins with their little plastic Red/White Insertion/Extraction tool.  The bottom line is the cheaper connectors may be great in terms of price but if you screw up and insert a pin/socket in the wrong spot and you need to remove it, you may find that the crappy tool plastic and metal tool shown above doesn't work for "squat" and now your are stuck with a mis-wired connector.  You'll have to cut it off of the wires and start over using another connector.

Now to build the cable harness that runs from those 57 pin Plugs to all the panels such as the MISC, Landing Gear, Gear Box, etc., etc.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2018, 11:43:08 PM by Willy »
Beau "Willy" Williamson

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Offline Willy

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Re: Willy's Pit
« Reply #665 on: May 29, 2018, 03:00:46 PM »
A quick follow up to the usage of those TE-AMP Circular Plastic Connectors.

I did some more research and found that the correct Insertion/Extraction tool is the 91285-1 tool (shown below), not those cheap red/white tools.  (Although the cheap ones will work to some degree.)
product-details.pngWilly's Pit

This tool comes with several different sized metal inserts to handle Insertion and Extraction of pins and sockets for several different TE-AMP products.  Having said that, I could not get the tool above to work to extract pins that had #20 wire.  (More on that later.)

One of the problems with the #20 wire (and all wire in general) is the cheap crimp tool that I was using for the DF Series Pins and Sockets.
2018-05-29_13-31-12.jpgWilly's Pit

As you can see, these pins and sockets call for a typical crimp tool.  The problem is that most Off-the-Shelf tools do a poor job.  (I'm sure TE-AMP has one that does a great job for a couple of $100 or more.)  Like I said in the previous post, I had to touch up each and every crimp with needle-nose pliers.  This meant crimping a single pin or socket was about a 2-3 minute job!  Multiply that times about 57 connections per connector and . . .   You get the idea.  :brickwall:

What I prefer to use is MIL-SPEC pins and sockets with my Daniels M22520/2-01 crimper
31W8GJYdpvL.jpgWilly's Pit
 
with its companion M22520/2-02 Turret
2018-05-29_13-57-43.jpgWilly's Pit

like I've been doing for the MIL-SPEC connectors.  Well, guess what!  The TE-AMP DM series of pins and sockets for those connectors are exactly that!!!   :yihaw:

The part numbers are:

MIL-SPEC Part          TE-AMP Part             Description               
M39029/64-369        205089-1                 Crimp Pin AWG 24-20     
M39029/63-368        205090-1                 Crimp Socket AWG 24-20

The above will allow me to use my M22520/2-01 Daniels crimper and M22520/2-02 turret to crimp pins for these connectors just like I've been doing for the expensive MIL-SPEC connectors.  This will give me a perfect crimp in about 10 seconds vs. the 2-3 minutes (or more) of the other pins and sockets.   :clap:

Having said that, I still see that the 91285-1 Insertion/Extraction tool just doesn't seem to want to work with the #20 AWG wire even if the crimps are perfect.  So after calling TE-AMP Tech Support I was directed to a spot on their web page that said that the maximum insulation diameter must be no larger than 0.060" in diameter.  Guess what.  The pretty colored #20 wire I've been trying to use to have color-coded power connections is 0.068" in diameter.  No wonder the Extraction tool didn't fit!

Today I put in an order for 200 each of the pins and sockets that can be crimped with my Daniels crimp tool and I will order some #20AWG teflon wire from my Avionics shop.  It should have a diameter under the 0.060" maximum and should allow #20 wire to be used in these connectors as the spec sheet says.

Hopefully this information will help others that wish to use these cheaper TE-AMP Circular Plastic Connectors vs. the expensive MIL-SPEC connectors.  You can generally find that Daniels crimper (often with that specific Turret) on eBay for $100-$150.  Let me tell you, it is WELL worth the price so that you can make cables and connectors and that can be modified or mistakes can be rectified.  Trust me on this one.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 03:13:39 PM by Willy »
Beau "Willy" Williamson

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Offline Kukki

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Re: Willy's Pit
« Reply #666 on: May 29, 2018, 04:27:36 PM »
SUPER COOL stuff Willy, and im with you all the way. TOP  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Kukki - (Skype: kukki_22)

Offline Willy

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Re: Willy's Pit
« Reply #667 on: May 29, 2018, 08:20:24 PM »
One more thing, you may need to look for the Turret under K1S.  I think the M22520/2-02 Turret number is a generic number and you need to order the Turret (aka Positioner) under that K1S number.

Here's what it looks like.
2018-05-29_19-19-37.jpgWilly's Pit


If you are lucky, you can find the AFM8 (that's the crimper) with the K1S positioner on eBay.
Beau "Willy" Williamson

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Offline henkie

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Re: Willy's Pit
« Reply #668 on: May 30, 2018, 02:01:10 AM »
Thanks for the excellent write-up and good research on this tricky topic @Willy   :thumbsup:
Too late for me ... I stick to sub-D  :)

Good tools are not cheap, but you get what you pay for. If you buy a small second hand car for $1000 you do not expect it to behave and perform like a $250,000 Ferrari  :D  Same goes for tools.
If you want good tools but don't want to spend too much, wait till Willy has finished his pit (in 1 or 2 "VP years"  ;D ). Maybe he will sell it as "no longer needed"  :whistle:

Offline Rufus

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Re: Willy's Pit
« Reply #669 on: May 30, 2018, 04:00:51 PM »
...yep, those tools certainly look familiar... :notes: .
- Rufus