Viperpit(s).org
General discussion, User presentation & Admin => New User Presentation => Topic started by: Foghorn on January 21, 2021, 01:20:28 PM
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Hello all,
Retired USAF F-16 IP, now turned civilian-employee test pilot on the same airframe (and a few others). I've been lurking the forums awhile before I now introduce myself. Love the simpits I have found on here. Very, very impressive work.
Yes, you may ask me questions. I still have an active security clearance and work in that community, so please understand if I refuse to answer something.
Again, I'm very impressed with the simpits on here. Love the attention to detail.
Foghorn
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Welcome-welcome Foghorn! You're certainly someone I'd like to have a beer with... :beer: ...maybe someday?
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Greetings Foghorn!
Great to have a real F16 pilot on the forum. Thanks for volunteering your expertise as well, I am sure you will get many questions. :thumbsup:
I think it's safe to say that all of us would be interested to know more details of your career/background.
Welcome....
Blaze
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Welcome Foghorn,
nice to see that a real world Viperdriver joined in.
Get prepared for the questions. On the other hand
don't hesitate to ask us all stuff pit building related
if interested.
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Welcome Foghorn, always nice when the lurkers come out :)
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Welcome Onboard Sir! :)
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Welcome to the group Foghorn. Great to have a Viper Driver on board.
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Welcome on board :vprules:
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Hey Foghorn, and Welcome to VP.
Its always super cool to have real F-16 pilots joining us, and ofcause we all respect what you can and can not tell us, because as you have proberly always seen, many strive for realism in the F-16 cockpits.
So welcome to VP and injoy this side of the most famos Jet ever.
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Cool to see the "real guys" pop in here :thumbsup:
As you say, we care for the details, so don't hesitate to correct us on "mistakes" :D
Needless to say you are most welcome here :bounce2:
Are you planning to build a (desktop) pit ???
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Welcome, sir.
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Cool :beer2:
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Oh wow. Didn't expect this much response. Thank you for the warm welcome!
Yes, please feel free to ask questions. More than happy to share (what I can).
Am I building a simpit? -- Not really, just a generic desktop setup I can play multiple titles on.
My career in a nutshell:
27 years USAF, retired Colonel in 2017
2300 hours F16 Blocks 25/30/32/40/42/50 and 52 (majority in 50/52), also did the spin program at Edwards back in the day, so a 1.7 in the old Block 15 B-Model
77 Combat Missions
1300 hours T-37
800 hours T-38
1000 hours in various GA
Bases: USAFA, Sheppard, Luke, Spangdahlem, Kunsan, Sheppard, Luke, Kunsan, Mountain Home, Kirtland, the Pentagram, HQ USCENTCOM (MacDill).
Married 26 years and counting, two sons grown and outta the house. Retired in Tampa, cuz we love it here.
Nice to meet you.
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Wow, that's quite the career.. I would almost call bullshit that is such an accomplishment! I'm sure will gain much respect here and you already have mine. :beer:
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So my first question is was "Foghorn" your official Callsign while operational? If not what was it, and how did you earn it? 8)
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Hi Foghorn,
Glad to have you here. Are you flying BMS? Several us here are on the Dev team with BMS (Marvin, Kukki, Boxer) and I would like to PM you about being an advisor as we currently dont have a RL pilot over there anymore. Nothing classified, but nuts and bolts stuff to help improve the sim. If it's ok, I will mention you on the Dev forum. Your input would be most welcome.
Regards,
Nigel
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@Marvin -- Yes, Foghorn was, is and always will be my callsign, whether I (or Warner Bros.) like it or not. And no callsign story will ever be shared without appropriate bribing of copious amounts of Scotch. We don't give that away for free.
@Nigel -- No, I am not flying BMS. You may mention me to the devs and pm me.
... and I like my Scotch like I like my women. Single and aged at least 18 years.
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...heh...reminds me of a blues lyric I know - "take my liquor standing up, and my women sittin' down"...
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@Marvin -- Yes, Foghorn was, is and always will be my callsign, whether I (or Warner Bros.) like it or not. And no callsign story will ever be shared without appropriate bribing of copious amounts of Scotch. We don't give that away for free.
Really? Must be different than the army. In my SF days I was “Rainman” and was given that simply cause I can’t count. Lol
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Hey @Foghorn - welcome and thanks for your offer to do some Q&A...
Can i ask a bit about how you became a pilot ? Were you an A-grade student, a high achiever, Or highly driven to be an air force pilot ? Any advice for those looking to get a seat in a plane ? ( Thats not for me personally btw - justs curious )
Also, what was it like the first time you went solo in an f-16 ? Have you flown other combat aircraft ?
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@Taipan
Yeah. That could be a really long story, but I'll attempt to be brief... from a really small town in the middle of nowhere in Oregon, straight A, highly motivated, used all the money I had been saving from jobs during my school years for a car and paid for a private pilot's license instead, so I was licensed on my 17th birthday. And was out of money by that point.
To build flying hours, I volunteered with the local sheriff's department as one of their Search and Rescue pilots, which was fairly busy because folks go missing in the woods all the time. The IP who was teaching me to fly searches was a retired Lt Col and an Academy grad, in the middle of a weekend training sortie he asks me, "What do you want to do with your life, kid?"
I said, "I dunno, but something with airplanes. I love this." He then asked, "Have you ever considered flying for the Air Force?" I said, "No, I hadn't. But flying fighter jets would be really cool. However, I don't even have the foggiest on how I would go about doing that."
He then proceeded to fill me in on everything on the subject. I went to school the very next Monday, and demanded my guidance counselor (who had even less clue on the subject than I did) to find out how to apply to the USAF Academy. I may have even threatened him a little. He made good and I started the application process, and a year later I was graduated from high school and headed off to USAFA.
The rest, as they say, is history. So, short story long, I had the desire but not the know-how, and the Good Lord put the right guy in the right place at the right time to say the right thing into (literally) my right ear. And completely changed the direction of my life.
Sappy, I know, but the truth.
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@Taipan
Yeah. That could be a really long story, but I'll attempt to be brief... from a really small town in the middle of nowhere in Oregon, straight A, highly motivated, used all the money I had been saving from jobs during my school years for a car and paid for a private pilot's license instead, so I was licensed on my 17th birthday. And was out of money by that point.
To build flying hours, I volunteered with the local sheriff's department as one of their Search and Rescue pilots, which was fairly busy because folks go missing in the woods all the time. The IP who was teaching me to fly searches was a retired Lt Col and an Academy grad, in the middle of a weekend training sortie he asks me, "What do you want to do with your life, kid?"
I said, "I dunno, but something with airplanes. I love this." He then asked, "Have you ever considered flying for the Air Force?" I said, "No, I hadn't. But flying fighter jets would be really cool. However, I don't even have the foggiest on how I would go about doing that."
He then proceeded to fill me in on everything on the subject. I went to school the very next Monday, and demanded my guidance counselor (who had even less clue on the subject than I did) to find out how to apply to the USAF Academy. I may have even threatened him a little. He made good and I started the application process, and a year later I was graduated from high school and headed off to USAFA.
The rest, as they say, is history. So, short story long, I had the desire but not the know-how, and the Good Lord put the right guy in the right place at the right time to say the right thing into (literally) my right ear. And completely changed the direction of my life.
Sappy, I know, but the truth.
Thanks heaps mate !
I like hearing about how these things work out. It is tough - and for many people sadly it doesn't work out...
t
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Welcome Foghorn.
We understand the sensitive nature of your knowledge so, if you see us doing something wrong and can't speak out, just... caugh :D
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Welcome aboard Sir, nice to have you among us!
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@
... and I like my Scotch like I like my women.
For a moment I thought you were going to say, "on ice". :whistle:
Anyhow welcome to VP. I just wonder with that kind of background you can actually enjoy a desktop setup?
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@Nikolas_A
That's the neat thing about this site... there's nothing classified in the cockpit as far as panels and switches and stuff are concerned, so "come at me, bro" with the questions. Though I should caveat, I have NO time in the MLU jets all the NATO partners are flying, so answering clarifying questions of a NATO viper pit might stump me.
Heck, any question could possibly stump me. Again, see "Scotch" reference above.
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..ok - I have one. I've been previously involved in the Fleet introduction of a Trainer jet, and there were strict rules as to how every jet in the Trainer Fleet had to be exactly the same, wrt cockpit configuration.
I've noted quite a bit of variance in the configurations of USAF Viper cockpits even in the Block 50/52 pictures I've found, and in some of the Guard jets (I'm talking left and right console configurations, mostly). What sort of standardization does the USAF employ as far as this goes? Or is/are the some sort of approach by mission applicability/purpose as to configuration?
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Foghorn,
I’ve often wondered about this. I’ve read, heard, seen etc different theories on advancing the throttle from MIL to AB via all at once or slowly going through the AB stages (gradually advancing the throttle forward) during take off. I can’t seem to confirm if this is related to specific engine PW or GE procedure or perhaps maybe squadron SOPs?
Do know anything about this?
Thanks
Jody
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This one, I actually know the answer to (at least for the F110) because I was at GE in AB Controls when they got the F110 Contract. My boss was involved with the F110 DFE on the F-16XL and during a series of throttle slams idle to max the engine blew the Fuel Inlet Elbow right off the engine...at which point there was a silence in the Control Room, followed a bit later by - "ok, I'm on the lake bed" - from the jet.
My first job in AB Controls was to produce some data to investigate what happened. Turned out, that when the engine was at idle the plenum to the AB Boost Pump was scavenged dry by the Main Fuel Control - and that during the slam, the fuel demand caused a pressure spike that was big enough to propagate upstream right through the MEC and shatter the Fuel Inlet Elbow...which was only able to take so many of those before it cycle fatigued and blew. We fixed it by not allowing the Boost Pump to be scavenged dry, but it's long enough ago that I forget just how we did that. Anyway...after that I ended up with some responsibility for five Production Verification engines...then I left GE and went on with my life. But as a result, the GE engine left the Factory unlimited for throttle handling.
...and they gave my boss one end of the blown out Fuel Inlet Elbow on a plaque that he kept above his desk, having been the GE Rep in the Control Room at the time...never did ask him if it was the airframe or engine side.
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Welcome Foghorn.
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Welcome Foghorn!
It is always great to have Real Life Viper drivers. Please feel free to correct any misinformation you come across - it helps to keep some of us honest! Many times we are speculating on how we think the F-16 behaves in real life.
We always ask that "classified" details of any real missions, weapon/radar capabilities, and crypto/ECM NOT be discussed on the forum (for obvious reasons), but general F-16 questions are fair game. We leave this to your discretion.
Have you built an F-16 replica / cockpit? Plans to build one? Have you had an opportunity to fly in any hobbyist simulators running BMS Falcon?
Again, WELCOME
:thumbsup:
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Sandman,
Thank you for the warm welcome! I have not built an F16 pit, nor enjoyed any hobbyist simpits. However, my test pilot work over the last nearly 4 years since retirement have been 95% in F16 simulators of varying levels of fidelity... with the occasional sortie in a jet for data gathering. The engineering nerd in me, of course, always wants to pull panels and see how these simpits are built, and luckily my contracts with the Aerospace Defense Industry Companies (who shall not be named, but you know who they are... the BIG ones) allow me to do just that... I don't even have to tell them why I am doing it!
I am building something of a generic simpit. Not a replica of any existing anything. And, for as big of a fighter geek as I am, I am an even bigger space nerd. My main vidja gamez addictions are Star Citizen, DCS Viper, DCS Warthog, and Mechwarrior Online. So I have a simpit under construction that allows me to do anything and everything.
My main "other" hobby is woodworking. I have a woodshop that I am fairly proud of. I just recently purchased a CnC Machine to add to my collection of power tools, :outthewindow: and am now having a bit of a 'crisis' trying to figure out where in the heck I am going to set it up. I'm having sort of a... "my eyes were bigger than my stomach" problem. When I unboxed it to start assembly, I quickly came to realize it's finished dimensions are roughly the size of a queen-sized bed.
So, now I am elbows deep in a huge reorganization of the shop, trying to accommodate this beast. First world problems.
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Sounds like fun problems. :beer:
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Foghorn,
I’ve often wondered about this. I’ve read, heard, seen etc different theories on advancing the throttle from MIL to AB via all at once or slowly going through the AB stages (gradually advancing the throttle forward) during take off. I can’t seem to confirm if this is related to specific engine PW or GE procedure or perhaps maybe squadron SOPs?
Do know anything about this?
Thanks
Jody
Jody (BTW, Marvin is my second most favorite Looney Tunes character... "Earth-shattering Kaboom!"),
Apologies for the delay in responding. I'm in the hell of writing test procedures for the T-7A, which is exactly as fun as it sounds.
Theories? There are no theories. According to the 1-T.O.-F16CM-1, there are no restrictions on throttle movement in any phase of flight for any of the four engine models. After the 90% RPM "run-up" check on the runway, we stuff the throttle to MIL or MAX as appropriate and go.
These are fighter jets, not your grandma's Edsel. We jockey the throttle from IDLE to MAX back to IDLE back to MAX back to MIL back to MAX back to IDLE (oh shit, fan the boards) back to MAX (put the boards in)... constantly, and as fast as your arm can move. A dogfight is a brutally abusive athletic event in the cockpit, looking like (and as tiring as) a championship MMA bout. These aircraft, and all of their systems have to be ROBUST.
Now, if foggy memory serves, I think "back in the dinosaur" A-model days, the baseline PW-200 motor in the Block 5 and Block 10 was pretty cantankerous and, shall we say, NOT ROBUST, and had to be pussy-footed when trying to light the 'burner for fear of No Lights, Blowouts, Compressor Stalls and Stagnations. By the time they got to the PW-220E (aka, C-model Blocks 25/32/42... the ending '2' designating the PW motor), that issue was corrected. Neither of the GE motors ever had that problem (C-Models 30/40/50... the ending '0' designating the GE motor), and neither did the PW-229 (C-Model Block 52).
My Viper time is in Blocks 25/30/32/40/42/50/52, and one ride in the two-seater Block 15 at Edwards for the spin program, which had a PW-220E... but I cannot attest that that engine model is what went in the production Block 15, because Edwards being Edwards is filled with Frankenstein jets, and nothing is what you would expect from "the books". I have no time in Blocks 5 and 10 aircraft (before my time), so again... fuzzy memory hearsay caveat.
Hope that helps!
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..ok - I have one. I've been previously involved in the Fleet introduction of a Trainer jet, and there were strict rules as to how every jet in the Trainer Fleet had to be exactly the same, wrt cockpit configuration.
I've noted quite a bit of variance in the configurations of USAF Viper cockpits even in the Block 50/52 pictures I've found, and in some of the Guard jets (I'm talking left and right console configurations, mostly). What sort of standardization does the USAF employ as far as this goes? Or is/are the some sort of approach by mission applicability/purpose as to configuration?
Rufus,
Yes, standardization is supposed to be a thing, and Yes, the USAF does worship at that altar. The discrepancies are most likely attributable to a couple of things:
- The photos of the cockpit panels are from different points in time, before/after mods have been installed that changed cockpit config;
- The USAF (all of DoD really) is constantly modding their equipment, so #1 happens often;
- Often (most) mods are not done all at once, but instead "phased in" as convenience allows jets to be taken out of service for whatever timeframe is needed to complete the mod.
Ergo, even within a squadron, you may find small variations in cockpit panels as jets A thru D have had Mod #X completed, but jets E thru Z haven't yet. Same goes for variances between squadrons flying the same exact Block... one Sq has it done, the other hasn't yet.
Air National Guard can also be a different animal, as the National Guard Bureau at the Pentagram will fund mods that they want through their coffers when Big Daddy Air Force won't fund it for anybody. So, you can also find variations between ANG jets and Active Duty (AD) jets.
I blame politicians. For everything. Always.
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Foghorn,
I’ve often wondered about this. I’ve read, heard, seen etc different theories on advancing the throttle from MIL to AB via all at once or slowly going through the AB stages (gradually advancing the throttle forward) during take off. I can’t seem to confirm if this is related to specific engine PW or GE procedure or perhaps maybe squadron SOPs?
Do know anything about this?
Thanks
Jody
Jody (BTW, Marvin is my second most favorite Looney Tunes character... "Earth-shattering Kaboom!"),
Apologies for the delay in responding. I'm in the hell of writing test procedures for the T-7A, which is exactly as fun as it sounds.
Theories? There are no theories. According to the 1-T.O.-F16CM-1, there are no restrictions on throttle movement in any phase of flight for any of the four engine models. After the 90% RPM "run-up" check on the runway, we stuff the throttle to MIL or MAX as appropriate and go.
These are fighter jets, not your grandma's Edsel. We jockey the throttle from IDLE to MAX back to IDLE back to MAX back to MIL back to MAX back to IDLE (oh shit, fan the boards) back to MAX (put the boards in)... constantly, and as fast as your arm can move. A dogfight is a brutally abusive athletic event in the cockpit, looking like (and as tiring as) a championship MMA bout. These aircraft, and all of their systems have to be ROBUST.
Now, if foggy memory serves, I think "back in the dinosaur" A-model days, the baseline PW-200 motor in the Block 5 and Block 10 was pretty cantankerous and, shall we say, NOT ROBUST, and had to be pussy-footed when trying to light the 'burner for fear of No Lights, Blowouts, Compressor Stalls and Stagnations. By the time they got to the PW-220E (aka, C-model Blocks 25/32/42... the ending '2' designating the PW motor), that issue was corrected. Neither of the GE motors ever had that problem (C-Models 30/40/50... the ending '0' designating the GE motor), and neither did the PW-229 (C-Model Block 52).
My Viper time is in Blocks 25/30/32/40/42/50/52, and one ride in the two-seater Block 15 at Edwards for the spin program, which had a PW-220E... but I cannot attest that that engine model is what went in the production Block 15, because Edwards being Edwards is filled with Frankenstein jets, and nothing is what you would expect from "the books". I have no time in Blocks 5 and 10 aircraft (before my time), so again... fuzzy memory hearsay caveat.
Hope that helps!
Foghorn,
Excellent that clarifies. Also hearing it from a Viper driver with your extensive experience instills confidence compared to all the previous discussions I have read on this.
Thank you!
Jody
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Sad to see the T38 on its way out. The T-7A looks like a F15 had sex with a T38.
I must destroy earth it is obstructing my view of Venus!
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My favorite callsign story was a helicopter pilot called Stuckey. He got lost on a navigation training mission and landed at a Stuckey's to ask for directions. Needless to say they were waiting for him at the base after the store owner called.
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Hey dude,
This has been a long debated question on our dev forum and will never end as there is always the elements of realism vs immersion.
So the question is (and I know its hard to answer) but how loud is the internal engine sound to a pilot when wearing ear plugs and a helmet?
If you listen to any camera inside a Viper the sound seems distorted so that would tell me it is quite loud to the camera. But then we have guys who argue with ear plugs and a helmet you wouldn't hear that? But when I put ear plugs and my helmet on; sure the ambient noise around me is certainly reduced but I can still hear stuff.
So I am wondering if there is any way you can describe (from memory) whether or not, or how loud the internal engine sound is inside the cockpit?
I ask I as I am trying to find tune my sounds to something that is realistic. Having the jet seat vibrate the sate adds nice immersion that a jet is running, and now trying to fine tune the audio in the headphones would be the icing on the cake.
Jody
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Cool Jody
I agree, could be nice to have a real viper pilot to set the sound bars in bms as close to the real sounds in the jet with a helmet on and post a screen shot
Then we can adjust our sound to that if we have a helmet on or not 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
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That's a great idea! Foghorn I officially invite you to my house to try the sim and do that! :-P
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I had a friend of mine, pilot of AV8BII plus Spanish Harrier, flying at home the DCS Harrier and he commented that in the real plane it was much noisier, I asked him that if even with ear plugs and helmet he could hear the engine that well and he answered "yepp!!"
I am curious to see what Foghorn has to say about the Viper!
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I've spent some time working with Harriers, and yes - it is probably the noisiest cockpit environment of all modern fighters. We tried implementing a voice command system in the jet in those days, and it simply would not work because of background noise interference. There is a STRONG high frequency component to the Harriers inlet noise too. Not to mention that the canopy seal will deflate at low power settings and you get wind noise in the cockpit during extended periods at idle during high angle dives. I'd certainly call the Harrier a "worst case".