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Author Topic: Henkie's pit  (Read 565451 times)

Offline henkie

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1290 on: February 03, 2018, 04:36:10 AM »
@lightning : yes, I am well aware of the AD board. But on my limited budget, I am already happy to have one SimTek simulated indicator, and I am not expecting to get an other one. It is probably more likely to find real instruments than simulated instruments. For that reason the "SADI" board is a cheaper solution, but as soon as you have several sin/cos based instruments the advantage quickly tips to the AD board. Agreed, if you have a simulated HSI (wow!) the decision is easy  :D

@Moon : I have ordered parts from Seeed some time ago (a small TFT screen for my Raspberry Pi). I will check them out for PCB manufacturing. Indeed, I try to keep my boards smaller than 10 x 10 cm  ;D

The 4-channel bare PCB is more expensive, but if you foresee more sin/cos based instruments to appear in your pit, it has some "future ready" potential  :biggrin:  But, as @lightning says, if you plan for more simulated instruments, the AD board is the better option  :thumbsup:

Offline Willy

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1291 on: February 03, 2018, 10:22:07 AM »
Henkie,

If you haven't already, you should switch to KiCad for your PCB design.  That way you are not limited to size.  Besides, now that Autodesk bought Eagle and moved it to a subscription basis, I prefer to boycott that company and their products and continue to move to OpenSource utilities.  (Same bitch about Adobe.)

Finally, I used https://jlcpcb.com/ to make my UHF Frequency and Channel Display boards.  They did a good job and gave me FREE expedited shipping via DHL on my first order.  Sweet!

Willy
Beau "Willy" Williamson

I better go find my monkey!

Offline henkie

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1292 on: February 16, 2018, 10:42:50 AM »
Willy,

I like to stay with Eagle, as I paid for a license.
That was before CadSoft was bought by Autodesk. I do not upgrade, because I do not know whether I will then be sucked into the new subscription policy. I have Eagle version 7.6 IIRC, and that does all what I need.
As I have good result with Itead, I stick with them. At the moment they have an offer of max 100 x 100mm for $19.90. That price is for *10* boards! OK, I will have to add shipping cost and taxes, but if I choose (any) other manufacturer, I will have to pay that as well.
The "Quad Sin/Cos" board is ordered, but it will be several weeks, because of the Chines New Year.

Offline henkie

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1293 on: February 16, 2018, 10:46:05 AM »
Some time ago, I got a SIMTEK SIMULATED STANDBY ATTITUDE INDICATOR, and the model, according to the sticker on the housing, is 10-0335-01. This is the connector pin designation:
A  +15VDC
B  +/-15VDC Common
C  -15VDC
D  Spare
E  Spare
F  Spare
G  Spare
H  5V Lighting
J  5V Lighting
K  Case Ground
L  Sin Input Roll
M  Sig Return Roll
N  Cos Input Roll
P  Sin Input Pitch
R  Sig Return Pitch
S  Cos Input Pitch
T  +28VDC Flag Power
U  Ground - Flag
V  Ground Out - Cage

When I look at the connector, if I am correct, pin A is circled and is at the "12 'o clock" position, and pin V is circled (which is in the center).
I have connected pin A to +14.86VDC, pin B is GND, and Pin C is -14.86VDC.
Further, I have pins K, M, and R connected to GND.
When I switch on the power supply both motors (roll and pitch) keep running continuously with pins L, N and P, S not connected. However, when I connect +7VDC to pins L, N, P, and S, I expected that the roll indication would become approx "CLIMB 45 degrees" and "ROLL 45 degrees" according to Table 1 and Table 2 ... but both pitch and roll motor keep on running continuously.
Setting other DC voltages on the sin and cos inputs does not make any change.
The motors keep on running  ::)   :-\

The OFF flag is working the way it should.
Connecting a pull-up resistor to pin V to +5VDC, outputs a signal of approx 5V, and when I pull the "PULL TO CAGE" knob, th signal goes to approx 0.
So that seems to work just fine, and more important: the connections are OK  ;)

My questions.
- Am I doing something completely stupid wrong ???
- Are the connections correct ???

Offline Nigel

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1294 on: February 16, 2018, 03:09:49 PM »
Henk
Do you have the signal returns tied to the motor ground? If not, try that.

Offline henkie

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1295 on: February 16, 2018, 03:29:47 PM »
Hi Nigel,

yes, I got all GNDs connected to the power supply GND:
  B is the +15/-15VDC power GND,
  K is case GND,
  M is roll signal return,
  R is pitch signal return.
All tied together.

I also sent an email to Simtek, because I understood from a previous post from @Willy that those guys are really kind and try to help out a hobbyist.
Within 3 hours I had a reply from Simtek  :thumbsup:
He told me that the unit is most likely loosing the -15V, and gave me a few pointers to check after opening the instrument. I will do that this weekend.
That's what I call SERVICE (yes, with capitals)   :clap:

to be continued ...

Offline Willy

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1296 on: February 16, 2018, 03:40:32 PM »
Who did you talk to at SimTek.  I'm wondering if I know that person.
Beau "Willy" Williamson

I better go find my monkey!

Offline henkie

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1297 on: February 16, 2018, 03:40:42 PM »
BTW, what you can see in the picture -
bottom left is a DC/DC converter from eBay for just a few $. It converts a DC input voltage to a (lower) positive *and* negative output voltage. In this setup, the input is 24VDC, and the output is -15V and +15V. This DC/DC converter can supply up to 3 Amps on the positive output and up to 2 Amps on the negative output. And the positive and negative output can be set *independently*, so an asymmetric output is also possible. I plan to buy a few more, very handy stuff.
Link: https://www.ebay.de/itm/3A-DC-DC-Buck-Step-down-Dual-Power-Supply-Module-4-5-35v-to-5V-12V-15V-Adjust/322825084415

The breadboard holds 7 ICs (PIC, 2 DACs, several OpAmps), and can generate two sin/cos pairs of signals. The 4 trimpots at the right side set the output amplitude to 10V. Above the breadboard is the perfboard PHCC Motherboard which connects to the PC using RS-232.

Above the perfboard are the two pulleys for one drive unit of my 3-DoF platform on which the pit will be. But that will not be in 2018, still buying parts after making sure I selected the right parts  ::)
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 04:33:40 PM by henkie »

Offline henkie

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1298 on: February 16, 2018, 03:41:29 PM »
I will send a PM @Willy

Offline Willy

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1299 on: February 16, 2018, 03:42:49 PM »
Willy,

I like to stay with Eagle, as I paid for a license.
That was before CadSoft was bought by Autodesk. I do not upgrade, because I do not know whether I will then be sucked into the new subscription policy. I have Eagle version 7.6 IIRC, and that does all what I need.
As I have good result with Itead, I stick with them. At the moment they have an offer of max 100 x 100mm for $19.90. That price is for *10* boards! OK, I will have to add shipping cost and taxes, but if I choose (any) other manufacturer, I will have to pay that as well.
The "Quad Sin/Cos" board is ordered, but it will be several weeks, because of the Chines New Year.
Yes, if you bought the full version, then I would agree.  Hang on to that 7.6 version as long as you can.

Willy
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Offline lightning

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1300 on: February 16, 2018, 07:26:11 PM »
Hi Nigel,

yes, I got all GNDs connected to the power supply GND:
  B is the +15/-15VDC power GND,
  K is case GND,
  M is roll signal return,
  R is pitch signal return.
All tied together.

I also sent an email to Simtek, because I understood from a previous post from @Willy that those guys are really kind and try to help out a hobbyist.
Within 3 hours I had a reply from Simtek  :thumbsup:
He told me that the unit is most likely loosing the -15V, and gave me a few pointers to check after opening the instrument. I will do that this weekend.
That's what I call SERVICE (yes, with capitals)   :clap:

to be continued ...

Nigel and I have seen this behavior on many Simtek and AMI devices. IIRC sometimes it has been caused by trimpots that weren’t adjusted properly; other times it’s been caused by a bad trimpot or loose connection internally.  Should be an easy fix, whatever the case may be. Simtek has always been awesome about providing support and answering questions.

Offline Nigel

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1301 on: February 16, 2018, 08:50:27 PM »
Henk
David is right, we've repaired half a dozen of these. There used to be pics in my build thread but thanks to Photobucket they are gone. Let me know how it goes, i will be glad to help.

Offline Willy

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1302 on: February 17, 2018, 11:38:04 AM »
Nigel,

Was it "Trim" pots or the Servo feedback pots.  I would guess it is the later based on what I've seen when I was at SimTek working with the techs to tweak up my instruments.  My FQI has a pot that is a bit loose internally that could use to be replaced.  It results in some very minor reading difference in the feedback loop depending on which way the pot is being turned to reach the null point of the loop.
Beau "Willy" Williamson

I better go find my monkey!

Offline henkie

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1303 on: February 18, 2018, 11:39:08 AM »
OK - the weekend was too short (as usual), and when making plans real life always seems to require changes  ::)
But I managed to do a visual inspection and a few measurements.
This SADI has a "tube cover" for the rear part and a separate "tube cover" for the front part. So, the mechanical stuff stays safely protected. I took a few pictures. You can see that the model is 10-0335-01.
Here are my notes so far.
  • PCB #1 (near the mechanical unit)
      etch says 70.1253  ink writing: 50.0137.07  IC: LM747 and 4 TO220 power transistors
  • PCB #2
      etch says 70.0719  ink writing: 50.0137  IC: ? (I cannot read it)
  • PCB #3
      etch says 70.1252  ink writing 50.189.01  ICs: two LM747
  • PCB #4
      etch says 70.1251  ink writing 50.13? (hard to read)  ICs: two LM747
  • PCB #5 (near the connector)
      etch says 70.1251  ink writing 50.139? (hard to read)  ICs: two LM747

My tests so far.
First I did a visual inspection for broken wires (especially at the joint on the PCBs. As expected, that all looks fine.
Then I connected power.
  pin A to +14.86V
  pin B to GND
  pin C to -14.86V

As suggested by Simtek, I measured at the black wire solder connection on PCB #1.
The voltage is -14.82V. After the diode the voltage is -14.05V.
So the wire is not broken, and the diode seems to be OK.

Then I checked the power supply on the LM747 ICs. Pin 4 is the -V power supply connection and pins 9 and 13 are +V power supply connections (but according to the data sheet pin 9 and pin 13 are internally connected).
On all PCBs (except PCB #2), pin 4 of the LM747 measures -14.04V, and pins 9 and 13 measure +14.15V.
As the IC on PCB #2 is unknown, I measured the voltages on all pins.
pin 1  -11.17     pin 8  -14.06
pin 2  -10.72     pin 9  -14.06
pin 3  -10.67     pin 10 -11.18
pin 4  -11.19     pin 11 -14.01
pin 5  -11.19     pin 12 -14.07
pin 6  -11.19     pin 13 -11.19
pin 7  -14.07     pin 14 -11.19

What strikes me is that on this IC all pins have a negative voltage ...

BTW, there are *no* trimpots on all 5 PCBs!

... to be continued ...

Offline henkie

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Re: Henkie's pit
« Reply #1304 on: February 20, 2018, 05:21:33 AM »
I now know that the "mystery IC" on PCB #2 is a 4047 monostable/astable multivibrator.
Those negative voltages on ALL pins is probably not correct ...
I wonder whether I made a dumb mistake while measuring  :DOH:, so I will do my measurement again  :reading:
However, I would have made the same mistake measuring the voltage on all 14 pins, so it definitely is very suspicious!