Virtual cockpit lighting option

[Mustang 1-1]

Hello, I was doing some vr night flying and wanted to change the virtual cockpit to have white backlighting, rather than the NVG green. I prefer the white lighting and it would be cool to change it up. Has anyone been able to change the backlighting or is it always going to be green.

[Atlas]

Do you mean in the game?

[Rufus]

...if you did that in RL your goggles would bloom, and be useless.

[Mustang 1-1]

Yes @Atlas in the game. Rufus I didn’t think about that, but I know some of the members have white backlight cockpits and don’t use nvg, but was still wondering if it’s possible in tue virtual cockpit.

[Rufus]

That's my point.  The reason the lights aren't white is because that is incompatible with NVGs, so if they were to give you the option to have either white or blue/green backlighting, then you should lose the ability to even invoke/use NVGs with white lighting.

Though, in RL I have known of pilots that have used NVGs in cockpits with white lighting by turning the lighting to nearly OFF...and even when doing that, the results can vary from jet to jet. 

I've been involved in several on-aircraft lighting evaluations and it's not as straightforward a job to get it right as one might think.  In some cases i've even seen it come down to what NVGs are intended for end usage, and compromises being made to accommodate more that one type in inventory.

[Nikolas_A]

The HAF F-16 Blk 52+ which I'm going for, has a strange mix of green and white panels. But the HOBO switch on the throttle grip turns off all non-NVG lights.

[Rufus]

...that's cool.  I'm aware of the HOBO switch, but still learning just what it does.  Contemplating trying to fit this switch to a Cougar throttle grip...not really sure why or what for, I just think it's a cool idea!

[Mustang 1-1]

It would be cool. I believe the throttle grip body is the same except there is just a hole for the button. We would need a part number for a button and I assume it’s just a normal spring loaded button that cycles the lights? We would also need measurements on where to drill for the button. It’s a cool idea but would be somewhat difficult.

[Nikolas_A]

It's more than the paddle on the stick. So the grip castings are different

[Rufus]

Affirmative.  I do have some decent pics of the HOBO around...someplace...and as I recall the button is a standard Otto push button and the lever actuates it in a similar manner to the Paddle, but the mounting for holding the lever is cast into the grip.

I don't know if the metal in the TM TQS grip can be soldered/brazed or not (I expect not) but I'd bring some of my jewelers skill out of retirement to build up the shell and then re-paint, if that could be done.  Other alternative would be to 3D print a bottom shell, I suppose... .

[Mustang 1-1]

Rufus I wouldn’t trust the thrustmaster metal lol. I have an original casting and I am sure a little metal work like metal weld epoxy or actual welds, could be used to attach two hinges for a paddle, kinda just reducing the paddle switch stick mechanism. I would also just use the stick paddle switch (Otto p1-10047), but the original switch would be good. It’s something that isn’t very common and very commonly used but it would be so cool and is rare. Now I don’t know about modifying a real grip to add it, or at least I wouldn’t want to risk my casting. I was talking to a member about adding a cms switch to my block 20 stick and apparently mason controls did a mod where they made a resin mold and stick it to the stick and made it work. So I figured I would try that for my stick at some point, because my stick has the same look as a cougar, it just doesn’t have a cms switch, but I still use it as the real deal is pretty neat.

[Nigel]

Rufus,
The Cougar is cheesy pot metal sorry to say. But if you find one to copy you could fabricate a mount then fill it with resin and no would know.  Think Kukki had one for sale maybe the new owner would scan it for you.

[Fhyndoh]

lost PLA casing of Zinc or ZAMAC might be the "easiest" if a 3d model could be found with a HOBO switch.

M

[Rufus]

Rufus,
The Cougar is cheesy pot metal sorry to say. But if you find one to copy you could fabricate a mount then fill it with resin and no would know.  Think Kukki had one for sale maybe the new owner would scan it for you.

Concur.  We have some stuff we use at work - something we call "dental cement", though I really don't think it is that, and some grey resin that can be filed but is tough as nails - that I'm sure would do the trick if I ever really want to give this mod a go.

Here's those HOBO pics I mentioned - I got them off the forum here...someplace.  Claim them, if they are yours!

[Mustang 1-1]

wow that design looks a lot simpler than  thought. If we could just 3d design a mechanism and the paddle, we could get some printed from shapewys out of aluminum.

[Nikolas_A]

We could just screw it from the inside

[Mustang 1-1]

We could. You would need to drill a hole for the button which shouldn’t be that hard and then add the mechanism. Otherwise it seems pretty simple to do, we just need accurate measurements on where the button and mechanism goes.

[Marvin]

Changing the cockpit lighting is easy.  Just search through the 3D cockpit file for the block you want to edit. 

Look for this in your preferred block 3D cockpit file:

// floodlightcolormod r g b where r g b are float between 0.0 to 1.0
floodlightcolormod 0.4 1.0 0.4; // green

and change it to this:

// floodlightcolormod r g b where r g b are float between 0.0 to 1.0
floodlightcolormod 0.9 0.6 0.2 // orange-white

[Mustang 1-1]

wow jody thanks! after seeing a lot of your cockpit videos with the "bulb look", I have to say the warm white look is way more appealing than nvis.

[Marvin]

Agreed..  There is no doubt most F-16s are equipped with NVIS but I still prefer the white look.  Specially with simulators as I find the green doesn't look authentic.

[Rufus]

I think the actual color the USAF uses is a blue-green...I know that it's noticeably different from what's in Navy/USMC cockpits.  It's been a long time since I've been in a Harrier, but in Hornets it's definitely more green.  It was white in pre-Night Attack A-D jets, but I think all of those are out of inventory or have been upgraded now.

As for the blue-green vs green, I really don't pay any attention to it.  I can see them both, and that's what matters.

[Nikolas_A]

I think the actual color the USAF uses is a blue-green...

Indeed, all real panels I've had,  had this bluish tint. I think I even found some bi-color blue-green LEDs but it was too much fuss to implement

[Rufus]

As I recall, the color on some of the replica gear I have from either Kukki or Martin can select/blend color - I'd like to know more about how to do that.   I know there are RGB tri-color LEDs out there, but I've never seen anything about how wire them to make them set or blend colors.

I'd go with blue-green in my pit if it weren't for things like my TM MFD bezels and such being actual green.  I'm already used to working in/with green lighting over decades, as it is.

[Rufus]

...ok.  So just found that this was just announced from TM at the recent simcon in Houston.  If you look close, you can see it includes the HOBO switch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGPNjTbVcqg

Frankly, I still think the Cougar grip is a better "1:1" replica (no idea what that switch above the Cursor is for, and I'm not one for adding switches to replicas - just give me the thing as designed), but I'd certainly want one of these for a desk setup.

[Marvin]

...ok.  So just found that this was just announced from TM at the recent simcon in Houston.  If you look close, you can see it includes the HOBO switch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGPNjTbVcqg

Frankly, I still think the Cougar grip is a better "1:1" replica (no idea what that switch above the Cursor is for, and I'm not one for adding switches to replicas - just give me the thing as designed), but I'd certainly want one of these for a desk setup.

Yeah I wanted TM to do a throttle like this for 20 years.  But why they chose to fuck it up with that scroll switch above the airbrake is beyond me?  Specially when they added the console underneath with all these functions, you don't need to add one on the throttle grip..  But...  THey added a HOBO switch though!

[Foghorn]

HOBO switch?

WTF is a HOBO switch?

[Marvin]

HOBO switch?

WTF is a HOBO switch?

Hands On Black Out (what I was told).  Its a paddle switch under the grip that transitions to the NVIS lighting?

[Rufus]

...ok.  So just found that this was just announced from TM at the recent simcon in Houston.  If you look close, you can see it includes the HOBO switch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGPNjTbVcqg

Frankly, I still think the Cougar grip is a better "1:1" replica (no idea what that switch above the Cursor is for, and I'm not one for adding switches to replicas - just give me the thing as designed), but I'd certainly want one of these for a desk setup.

Yeah I wanted TM to do a throttle like this for 20 years.  But why they chose to fuck it up with that scroll switch above the airbrake is beyond me?  Specially when they added the console underneath with all these functions, you don't need to add one on the throttle grip..  But...  THey added a HOBO switch though!

Ditto,  I hate that too.  Maybe someone can 3D print a replacement top shell to get rid of that... .

[Rufus]

HOBO switch?

WTF is a HOBO switch?

Hands On Black Out (what I was told).  Its a paddle switch under the grip that transitions to the NVIS lighting?

I think it also kills your exterior lighting...or just does that?

[Marvin]

HOBO switch?

WTF is a HOBO switch?

Hands On Black Out (what I was told).  Its a paddle switch under the grip that transitions to the NVIS lighting?

I think it also kills your exterior lighting...or just does that?

HMmm good question..  I think if it does it would switch them to NVIS settings at the least?  Those are standard switches in most military vehicles.  We even have them in our Police vehicles.  lol  It's tactical to have a switch that instantly cuts all your lighting off.

[Andiab]

When HOBO is activated all non NVIs compatible interior lights goes off. What panels ir instruments it is depends on the aircraft configuration.

This is from the flight manual:

  [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]  

[Foghorn]

Hmm, interesting addition.  Must be either fairly new, or not a US thing.

So a couple of "riddle me this, Batman"...

1.  Who is still flying vipers that do not have ALL of their cockpit lighting NVIS compatible?

2.  Why in the holy F would you be in injun-country with your lights on in the first place?  Second step of the FENCE Check, anyone?


 

[tiger-31]

1.  Who is still flying vipers that do not have ALL of their cockpit lighting NVIS compatible?


 

I would hazard to say countries with a much lower budget than the US 

[Rufus]

HOBO switch?

WTF is a HOBO switch?

Hands On Black Out (what I was told).  Its a paddle switch under the grip that transitions to the NVIS lighting?

I think it also kills your exterior lighting...or just does that?

HMmm good question..  I think if it does it would switch them to NVIS settings at the least?  Those are standard switches in most military vehicles.  We even have them in our Police vehicles.  lol  It's tactical to have a switch that instantly cuts all your lighting off.

In the Hornet there is such a switch on the left throttle, but it's a 3 position toggle switch.  Current Hornets also have dual mode formation lights, and I think those also get toggled - went looking for pics of such on Vipers and couldn't really find any.

[Rufus]

Hmm, interesting addition.  Must be either fairly new, or not a US thing.

So a couple of "riddle me this, Batman"...

1.  Who is still flying vipers that do not have ALL of their cockpit lighting NVIS compatible?

2.  Why in the holy F would you be in injun-country with your lights on in the first place?  Second step of the FENCE Check, anyone?


 

Not all Hornets have NVIS lighting, so I wouldn't expect all Vipers to have it either, just as a matter of biz ops...however, most if not all Hornets that are that old are not in operation these days...those would be mostly in the USN Reserves, USMC, and a couple I can think of up at Top Gun...maybe.  I can't remember if the A+ and A++ upgrades included lighting changes (which I should know - because I did some of first of these jets)...but I'd think it did, if that hadn't been incorporated previously.

I got the impression someplace that the HOBO is a part of the MLU update...as such it really depends on the upgrade path and cost as to if an operator chooses to include such.  We had a Block 40 show up on my line for a static display a few years back but I didn't get a chance to look in the office - only reason I ID'd it as a Block 40 was because I could see that it had a WAR HUD...which I also thought might have been out of inventory these days, so that was "unusual" to me.  Had I been able to go up the ladder for a peek the HOBO would have been something I'd have looked for, but expected not to find.

I was once up for a job as an F-16 Configuration Manager...but I turned it down after learning a bit more about how F-16s are produced and sold - they pretty much configure and sell Vipers like airliners, on sort of direct-to-operator basis.  Which is NOT the way the USN does biz.  I made the mistake of not asking for enough money to merit enduring that sort of headache...

[Rufus]

1.  Who is still flying vipers that do not have ALL of their cockpit lighting NVIS compatible?


 

I would hazard to say countries with a much lower budget than the US 

Sometimes it can get even more complicated than that...I've worked with at least one Country that wasn't allowed to maintain an "Attack" posture by Treaty (which was how I first got educated on the reason for the use of the F vs F/A designation) - as such, I'd wager they were also not allowed to maintain a "Night Attack" posture.  But that would all depend on how the Treaty was drafted and signed.

Stuff is always more complex than it may first look.  But that's a guess... .

[Andiab]

Hmm, interesting addition.  Must be either fairly new, or not a US thing.

So a couple of "riddle me this, Batman"...

1.  Who is still flying vipers that do not have ALL of their cockpit lighting NVIS compatible?

2.  Why in the holy F would you be in injun-country with your lights on in the first place?  Second step of the FENCE Check, anyone?


 

I will try assuming the answer to 1 is for countries operating earlier block version with upgrades such as MLU. Not all panels were replace at the same time and there was an interim period with mix of both types of lighting.

I do t know the full answer to this but its at least what i have been told.

[Marvin]

Hmm, interesting addition.  Must be either fairly new, or not a US thing.

So a couple of "riddle me this, Batman"...

1.  Who is still flying vipers that do not have ALL of their cockpit lighting NVIS compatible?

2.  Why in the holy F would you be in injun-country with your lights on in the first place?  Second step of the FENCE Check, anyone?


 

Don't quote me but I believe the MLU's were the first to have the HOBO and I mean from the 90s if I am not mistaken.  I do believe the Greek 52+s have them as well.   I agree with you it would make sense to just set all your lights up during the Fence, but I guess it doesn't hurt to have a switch to instantly transition to more efficient NVIS lighting, like console flood lights off, some external lights etc?  It is probably just an option you can add during the purchase and maybe someone the US never implemented?