I FINALLY entered into the VR world!

[Marvin]

Hey guys,

I'm sure I am late on this epic event here but as the title indicates I finally entered into the VR world.  As an old school and HARD core Falcon 4 fanatic I have always been against this simply cause I didn't want to give DCS any attention.  I still and will always support DCS and purchase all their mods but other than a few hours into each mod my interest was always lost.  So this is not about DCS.  I am only commenting on DCS as it is the platform for me to enjoy the experience of VR.

So let's talk about VR.  In simple terms if you haven't tried it yet, get off your ass and try it out.  It is incredible!  I had no idea it would be that good.  Its evident to me that what your eyes see your brain thinks.  Cause when I am under VR I am convinced I am there.  So much that I feel that lightness in the legs when I am rolling around at altitude.  I was even getting so convinced that at one point I looked down and saw the 3D leg of the pilot and moved my own leg thinking it was my leg.  Yeah its that crazy! 

I always knew VR gives you a sense of depth perception and a actual 3D perspective but had no idea how convincing it was.  The scale is literally perfect.  When I look around it feels like the exact same 1/1 scale.  The jets, tankers, and buildings are MASSIVE not forgetting the sensation of speed and flight is so realistic.

I will be the first to admit that it's not perfect yet and not where we need it.  The resolution is not the best as you have to jam your face into the MFDs to read the fonts, and can't really identify a tank from a rock on the ground until you are flying over it, but it is certainly not a deal breaker to stop me from enjoying it.  I would imagine technology will only get better and I do believe this is the future of flight sims.

Should the technology improve to where we can see high definition I could totally see myself scraping my pit and building a lighter and more compact setup on a 6DOF platform.

Anyway my only point of this is to encourage you to really step up and give this a try if you are being bold like I was and refusing to have an open mind and try other things.

Now if I can only convince the guys at BMS to look into VR support!

[Redneck]

You are absolutely right @Marvin on all points.
I had the pleasure to fly a couple of dcs birds with the ocules rift.
The immersion is so high it even made me wanna throw up when i was done flying the UH-1.
Flying the F-18 and A-10 was a hell of a ride.

One draw back for me, cause i wear glasses while useing the rift i couldnt read the text of switches in the pit. I just couldnt  get it focused. Tried it with out glasses it even got worse.
But other then that, if you ever have a change to try 3d, try it you wont regret it. Oh and bring a paper bag you never know.....

[Firebird]

Welcome to the VR world.  Been using Oculus Rift for over a year now and it NEVER gets old.  Just as any new platform, there are tweaks needed to improve certain areas, but as Marvin said.....After a few minutes, your mind tells you YOU ARE THERE.  Hopefully resolution issues will catch up, (and will probably be far ahead of my checkbook capabilities) but in my humble opinion, the plus's far outweigh the minus's on this platform.  Would love to see BMS jump into this arena someday.

[Marvin]

You are absolutely right @Marvin on all points.
I had the pleasure to fly a couple of dcs birds with the ocules rift.
The immersion is so high it even made me wanna throw up when i was done flying the UH-1.
Flying the F-18 and A-10 was a hell of a ride.

One draw back for me, cause i wear glasses while useing the rift i couldnt read the text of switches in the pit. I just couldnt  get it focused. Tried it with out glasses it even got worse.
But other then that, if you ever have a change to try 3d, try it you wont regret it. Oh and bring a paper bag you never know.....

That's a resolution problem and applies to everyone.   That was one of my initial draw backs as well to VR (Right now).  I can't really read them that well either and have to push my head really close to be able to read it well.

And what do you mean "try 3D?"

[Marvin]

Welcome to the VR world.  Been using Oculus Rift for over a year now and it NEVER gets old.  Just as any new platform, there are tweaks needed to improve certain areas, but as Marvin said.....After a few minutes, your mind tells you YOU ARE THERE.  Hopefully resolution issues will catch up, (and will probably be far ahead of my checkbook capabilities) but in my humble opinion, the plus's far outweigh the minus's on this platform.  Would love to see BMS jump into this arena someday.

Agreed!  The two main complaints I am reading with the "screen" affect and "resolution".   Screen no big deal.  After a few minutes your mind gets use to it and you adapt to that reality.  Resolution yeah it certainly is a draw back but depends on how you use it.  For me right now VR flying is for the experience of being there.  I fly around, navigate, do AAR and it gives me a great simulation of flight.  I still use BMS for combat operations where I need to really see all the fine detail.

[salaxi54]

This is a very interesting subject. Of course, even in VR, a cockpit is still essential (methinks), as it would combine the visual with the touch. It's a totally different thing to toggle switches in thin air than feeling the resistance of the switch for example. I am entertaining the use of a 'sort-of' VR set of goggles, but for RC flight use. The only virtuality in that is the feeling that you're riding the model yourself. But as technology advances, these things are getting uber-cheap. What troubles me is the wearing glasses obstacle. I have problems both with far and near sight, and if view through the goggles is not sharp, it's a serious matter. Doing a quick market research i found a set named Eachine VR 007. This of course is supposedly strictly for RC model use, including antenna for reception of the models' camera. But i quote their description: "Customized eyeglass, myopia below 400° needn't to wear glasses."
Dunno if this is real or not, but willing to give it a try this summer, while i plan to build another EDF plane. Yes, i understand this is applied to a whole different hobby, but the tech stuff is actually the same. Another drawback of the model mentioned is the ultra-low resolution of 480x272, which i don't know how it feels when wearing the goggles.
But as things advance, and prices drop, i can imagine the adaptation of something cheap and identical to cockpit use. Roughly envision a set of higher resolution, and an RC model camera shooting the monitor screen while at the same time you have trackir attached.
Just thinking out loud..   

[Ugamanuga]

I've build my own vr goggles by the time or dk1 came out and they where supperior by far.
so, I know quite a bit about this topic.
the main problem with the vr headsets nowadays will always be the resolution. the dpi that is needed for a somewhat clear picture can't be rendered by any graphics card (sli is dead aswell) in a fluid framerate.
even foved redering will be too slow.

I've tried the pimax 8k and even that resoution was way too low for my taste.
I predict 10 years plus until we get a somewhat usable vr experince.

I've scrapped vr for a multi projector setup.

[Focaldesign]

Concur but remain sceptic.
I have been doing some casual DCS F-15 in Oculus Rift and indeed you really feel you are there. First hard landing was actually making me sweat. Dogfighting is just amazingly intense and your neck hurts after a 30min BFM session.
But the resolution sucks, and I still can't place it above the tactile feedback of having my fingers feel actual switches & buttons.
So I use it for a change of mood, but BMS in my never ending work in progress pit remains my main goto.

My hope is a combination of both in years to come. Not VR but AR. An actual physical pit in a green screen/room and augmented reality glasses projecting only on the green part and not interfering with the actual pit.

[Tulkas]

  For me right now VR flying is for the experience of being there.  I fly around, navigate, do AAR and it gives me a great simulation of flight.  I still use BMS for combat operations where I need to really see all the fine detail.

Same here. I have a full F16 cockpit for BMS "serious combat operation" and a bare-bones VR cockpit with a central stick extended modded warthog for just enjoying the VR flying experience. As you guys said, formation flying, AAR or landing the AV8B  on the boat never gets old on VR, it is just amazing. I have to say that very time I go back to TrackIR with BMS feels a step back but that feeling gets quickly override by the depth of a BMS mission which gives you immersion on a different level than just sensorial.

 Cheers

Tulkas

[Marvin]

Well written!  But don't worry I am putting pressure on the team to get VR with BMS.   So cross your fingers we get that soon!

  For me right now VR flying is for the experience of being there.  I fly around, navigate, do AAR and it gives me a great simulation of flight.  I still use BMS for combat operations where I need to really see all the fine detail.

Same here. I have a full F16 cockpit for BMS "serious combat operation" and a bare-bones VR cockpit with a central stick extended modded warthog for just enjoying the VR flying experience. As you guys said, formation flying, AAR or landing the AV8B  on the boat never gets old on VR, it is just amazing. I have to say that very time I go back to TrackIR with BMS feels a step back but that feeling gets quickly override by the depth of a BMS mission which gives you immersion on a different level than just sensorial.

 Cheers

Tulkas

[MrWell]

Hi, I'd probably said this before in here, so sorry for repeating myself but I hope some developer read this sometimes.

The mixed reality in the way to go for us pitbuilders, actual VR goggles models tend to have stereo front cameras for Augmented Reality, well that is not enough for us. We don't need some little monster or flying soccer that seem to be flying in our room. What we need is that the VR presents us our cockpit and behind it the beautiful sky/runway!
So we need a tool to be able to draw in 3D a line to show the simulator VR program were to present the cameras feed or where to present the simulator display.
There are may programs to draw/design/sculpt in VR. You get kind of a pen and you just draw in the air. You can even save those 'pictures' in 3D, so it wouldn't be difficult to create that mask to split cameras' feed from game feed.

It would be awesome to just draw a line around the pit frame and, along with 4k stereo cameras, be able to enjoy out pit in real size and real distance, even with our displays, BUT at the same time being able to look outside, down, up, back... no more 180 or 270 screen but 360 horizontal and vertical full screen! wouldn't be?

My VR-pit dream lays up these sentence 
Cheers

[jjbravo]

The F-14 will be epic in VR!

[sagrzmnky]

The F-14 will be epic in VR!

Learning to fly F-14 is going to be a challenge compared to the F-16. The fly by wire system is so much easier than the old stick and rudder days. I can't wait to try it out. I can see myself unintentionally experiencing many flat spins in the near future.   

[sagrzmnky]

The F-14 will be epic in VR!

The F-16 will be out in the near future. I just wish that the AIC boards and Pegasus stuff were capable of operating in DCS. I hope someone figures that out when the time comes.

[jjbravo]

Agree, working on solving that myself.

[Marvin]

I wouldn’t worry too much.  DCS F-16 won’t be anywhere near that of BMS.  Specially in 4.34.  You boys are going to be I for a surprise for 4.34!  It actually takes work to fly it now.  Using the weapon systems is also a lot more work and if you are not paying attention you have a high probability of missing.

I’m not trying to trash DCS.  I am enjoying it quite a bit right now in VR.  But I cannot help by notice how simple it is to fly and deploy weapons.  I mean you actually have to put a great deal of effort to try and miss.  So I’m not really sold on their so called detailed list of avionics for their Viper if you look at what we have this far.  I mean 4.34 is two years plus in the making for just a few enhancements to make sure it’s perfect and DCS are doing complete mods in 6-8th months. 

That being said.  I would be lying if I said I wasn’t excited to fly wirh a human RIO in F14.

[jjbravo]

Agree with all your points Marvin.
Excited for the new 4.34 release!

(You can be my wingman anytime )

[Rufus]

There are ways to fly with a human RIO in BMS...and I'd like to try integrating my front seat pit with someone's back seat one day...should I live that long...

...I'd like to see some of the surface to air AI from FAF ported over to BMS.  Make that ALL of the surface to air AI from FAF.

[Tulkas]

I share wet dream with mrwell, mixed or augmented reality is what I want.

BMS VR means giving up my physical cockpit which is a no go for me. Now, combining my pit with a external view VR... that would be the ultimate! 360 degrees withou projectors or screens! Let's see if masking or using a kind of chroma goes somewhere in the near future..

Cheers

Tulkas