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Author Topic: Red Dog's pit - I finally started  (Read 716137 times)

Offline AiRdAncE

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Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #645 on: July 01, 2007, 04:53:29 PM »
Quote from: "Red Dog"

I expected some comments about my legs from you  8)


No comments, but I saved it to my special folder on my hard drive, and I sent the link to Jody ;)

HEHEHHE !!
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Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #646 on: July 02, 2007, 02:50:58 AM »
God Work RD, the servos worked very god Nice Pics and video !!!

Offline Nikolas_A

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Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #647 on: July 06, 2007, 03:00:59 PM »
Quote from: "Red Dog"

The VVI and AOA are backlighted and I also feature a square led to simulate the OFF flag driven by the UCC. Luckily in my cockpit, I always have power, even when the MAIN power switch is OFF  :D


Olivier, I have a bunch of OFF flags. PM me if interested.

Nikolas

Offline Red Dog

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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #648 on: September 08, 2007, 08:16:43 AM »
Finally I was able to work a buit on my pit.
The house move is mostly done (boring wall painting assignements are completed) and the kids and wife are pretty well installed so I can devote a little time this week-end on the cockpit.
My wife is pretty happy she now has a real cosy sleeping room without wires, buzz, computer and aces2 :)


I decided to leave the pit in the garare for the time being as I need to make heavy modification to the center panel. 

The idea being to install a LCD into the CP to implment the AOA, ADI, VVI, Machmeter and Altimeter.
Two smaller 6.4 LCDS will also be installed behind the MFD. I decided to stop looking for a suitable LCD for the HSI. I will keep the instrument not functionnal and use one of the 6.4 LCD behind a MFD to have it on screen through F4 gauges.
Beside small updates on the CP, that's the plan.

Yesterday, I started dissasembling the CP and it's now totally stripped.
The big question is how will I fit the TFT into the CP ...  :wacko:

Answer is .. probably by building a new CP ... I still should have Jason plans available that I didn't use till now since I got that one all made in aluminium

Since the Cp is also stripped, Now is a good time to implement the Fuel Flow with an OSRAM driven by the UCC? more on this later.
And while I am at it, and having wet my keyboard with Davide video of the 4 analogue gauges with Leo Stuff.. I'm tempted to inquire if it's possible to make that a reality into my cockpit, so more on this later

Glad to be back on the thread, I feel like being at the start again.  :-P




« Last Edit: February 18, 2016, 04:04:35 AM by Red Dog »

Have a bandit day
Red Dog

Offline Strale

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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #649 on: September 08, 2007, 08:43:13 AM »
Hi Olivier,

i was just able to find that small LCD module
and behind i found the following informations:

LCD MODULE BS-110(C)    2000 ;4.14

nothing else

hope it helps

Davide

hey ... b.t.w.
Your PIT needs to be implemented with Betainnovation's stuff !
Don't miss that chance. looking the gauges moving is a breathless experience.

@Leo ..... 1% for Marketing support .... LOL (just kidding of course!)
Strale (Skype: Strale_64)

Offline Red Dog

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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #650 on: September 08, 2007, 10:01:15 AM »
Davide,

Yeah, I know about Leo stuff and I agree but honest, I just need someone to make me a total price to implement those 4 gauges only.
I have been always avoiding to buy redundant hardware and so far, my feeling is that except for the air gauges The UCC already fills all my need.
So I am considering Beta Innovations stuff, but I don't want to pay a high price for redundant hardware that I won't use. It is my understanding that the Hardware bundle we can get from Leo is not only a solution for the gauges but also for leds and LCDs, .. which I don't need.

Someone prove me wrong, I'd appreciate :)

I just would like to have the RPM and FTIT and NOZ POS implemented, all the rest I can leave without




Have a bandit day
Red Dog

Offline Crease-Guard

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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #651 on: September 08, 2007, 02:00:28 PM »
RD, you can buy an EF lite which is much less expensive and only has two ports.  One port you can use for ALL the round gauges on the right instrument AND aux panel.  The second port...you can use for whatever.  I know Leo has been working on some stuff for the other analog gauges and if those come to life, you'll need that second port for those. 

Leo Mike and I are also working on a CMDS panel and the MLU TWP panel using the OSRAM displays.  Those will plug right into an EF port when all is said and done.

So, the EF lite is perfect as it may be able to do other stuff, but the two ports you'll be using just for the gauges so there won't really be anything redundant there.

Jay

Offline Strale

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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #652 on: September 08, 2007, 05:46:44 PM »
One Question ....
One Reply !

Olivier.... UCC is Great ! I understand You .... but as Jay told
there are "smaller" solution that will surely make the job !

Cheers

Davide
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Offline Red Dog

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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #653 on: September 09, 2007, 06:33:39 AM »
Thanks both of you for the input;

I did my homework: (somebody has a red pen to correct the errors and give a rating?)

Suppose I want 3 gauges (NOZ pos, FTIT, RPM) implemented with BetaInnovation solution.

I'd need:
EF Lite: 199 Can$
DX10 8 bit analog output card: 99can$
Noz aircore: 119 Can$
FTIT aircore : 130 can$
RPM: aircore : 130 can$

Supposing I do myself the bezels and tin can, I'm looking at 677 can$ which is 470euros.

I understand the EF lite can do much better than only the aircore gauges:

Quote
Feature list summary per Port:
Multiplexed Mode: 56 LEDs
Direct Mode: 15 LEDs or 15 Lamps & magnetic switches through power output card.
GLCD Mode: 192x64 graphical LCD
CRT RWR Mode: CRT based RWR output.
8-BIT DACs Mode: 10 DAC outputs. (i.e.10 x Air-Core Gauges)
Leds, Mag switches, 192x64 LCDs, RWR output, all that is taken care of by the UCC in my cockpit.
This is what I mean by redundancy. I'd buy a EF lite that can do a lot of stuff which I won't use.

I'd wish for a gauges only solution that would only take care of the gauge part. That would be more interesting cost wise.
Don't get me wrong, I do understand Beta Innovation dilemna and I already think that the EF lite is already a great initiative regarding the EF card that's already quite expensive.
So I am not ranting here, just explaining my way of thinking in an objective way I hope.

But I'm stuck in a corner,
  • I tried the opencockpit gauge solution and the lack of proper documentation and the fact that each user has to program the servo or stepper behaviour, makes it a very difficult solution for one to master although quite inexpensive. Anyway, for the time being I discarded the opencockpit features in my cockpit for those reasons and also the noise of the servoes which is not natural in the cockpit IMHO
  • The UCC is not supporting working gauges for the moment. It's planned but it seems pretty far away in any future developement
  • On the other hand I read there might be problems with some gauges in OF and it's sharedmemory. So far, the only working gauges I have seen were implemented through F4AF. No way I'll revert back to that one when we have OF. I'm sure the problems can be solved by programming tricks or future updates, though
  • And finally, as I posted earlier the EL sheets experience, Mike started to think of a way to backlight his panel with those and it seems they will be powered by the Beta Innovation LBC-PWM card, which probably needs the EF lite as well as I understand, so If I want to backlight my panels with the EL sheet, I will probably need to buy the EF lite anyway... which would be again overkill for only panel backlight

That's where I am at the moment, I helped the UCC development as Jay helped the betainnovation stuff and that's where my loyalty lies. I can't leave the UCC, I owe it the best beta test and ideas I can come up with - even if the development is pretty slow (and lack of progress on the CMDS aspect  cough, ....)
I won't replace the UCC feature with other hardware (especially since it does the job pretty well) I'm trying to find the best possible way to complete the 'working instrument' part of the pit without spending too much money on redundant hardware.

Quote
there are "smaller" solution that will surely make the job !

I think you're wrong Davide, The UCC is actually quite smaller than the Bi stuff.
Even the EF lite is powerful enough to replace the UCC. I'd say that the only part where the UCC beats the Beta Innovations stuff on paper is on the RWR.
And pricewise, the Beta Innovation is not smaller either ;)
But Leo stuff is quite more 'updatable' and much more versatile which is a great advantage (without mentionning the support which is top notch) - The UCC lacks only a working gauges to be complete IMHO, unfortunately it's a big part those days.

Anyway, sorry for the long post (thanks for reading if you made it up to here :) )
I'm not closing doors to anything at the moment, I'm just thinking out loud and I will further think as where the best course of action lies with all the great inputs we get from here.

At this time I feel the 470 euros cost to have only the three gauges working is a bit steep.
Especially whith the possibility to implement the gauges on a TFT placed behind a MFD (which are not functionnal at the moment - so I'm wouldn't loose anything) through F4gauges.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 06:35:48 AM by Red Dog »

Have a bandit day
Red Dog

Offline AiRdAncE

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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #654 on: September 09, 2007, 07:25:36 AM »
I'd wish for a gauges only solution that would only take care of the gauge part. That would be more interesting cost wise.

I second that - I'ld vote for more of a modular design for the Beta Innovations stuff. The fact that I need to buy a solution with a lot of functions that I don't need right away has kept me from buying Beta Innovations products. That's why I started out with OpenCockpits cards. Although I know that if I want full functionality to the pit (which I do) I can't avoid Beta Innovations.

Soooo..... Leo.... How about a LEGO-wise, bus-based modular solution ? Bricks with ribbon cables ? ;)
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Offline Strale

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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #655 on: September 09, 2007, 12:02:18 PM »
Guys,
sorry but i don't agree with You.

@Olivier:
I completely understand Your point of view and i also think that UCC is one of the most nice boards i ever saw !
As far what i can understand is that the problem are the 470? for a redundant system .... ok ... i can understand but on the other hand we see people running mad for original gauges that won't be easy to interface so i think that having those gauges working is relly WORTH the price
Take also in consideration that with Your actual Setup for the VVI and AOA you might be able to drive them with the cheaper aircore motors (305?)

Of course my own few cents point of view

@Kim
Kim ... talking about a commercial or marketing strategy i think that's quite normal that "compatibility" or "modular solution" are a little bit difficult to "bear" for people that spend their time to provide those special boards.

i'm sure that LEO hope that his customer buy a complete line of products from Him ... but this is how usually it works out there too !
Think at EPIC, Phidgets, Realsimulators and so on

I'm a proud UCC and EFFLUX owner and my sim will get life from these two powerfull boards and i don't care about redundancy (hey ... how much redoundant systems are within an aircraft ?? .... eh eh eh)

Cheers all

Davide
Strale (Skype: Strale_64)

LeoL

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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #656 on: September 09, 2007, 12:30:01 PM »
Sorry guys, but I just can't help you here. I decided long ago not to design single function cards because the market is already saturated with them (OpenC, Phidgets, etc.) and I'll never make everyone happy. You want gauges, someone else will want only the LCD, and someone else only LEDs, etc. I think you see my dilemma.

Basically, I cater to users that are looking to build a full cockpit and offer them the flexibility to grow their interface as their project needs grow.

As for gauges only, look at the Plasma+NITRO, it will cost you ~$100 less than the EF-LITE+Dx10 combo. Oh and FYI - the user manual provides sample schematics for each available mode allowing you to build your own add-on cards (Dx10, 7DCA, etc.) For those that can't be bothered, they can of course buy them from me.

The LBC-PWM card is standalone controlled by a pot or can be controlled through the Dx10 card. So there's no conspiracy between Mike and myself to force anyone to buy an EF to control the panel backlights...although now that you mention it, that would have been a great idea.  :firedevil: The EL backlight on Mike's panel can be controlled by anything you want and only requires a 12V source. So any PWM source should work.

Quote
I'd say that the only part where the UCC beats the Beta Innovations stuff on paper is on the RWR.

I dunno about that. Seems to cover that pretty good IMO...but I'm biased.

http://www.betainnovations.com/temp/f4af_rwr.mov
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKg11SHZZ5A

Quote
Soooo..... Leo.... How about a LEGO-wise, bus-based modular solution ? Bricks with ribbon cables ?

Yeah its called OpenCockpits. I Innovate and let others duplicate:P


Offline Ka-Bar03

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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #657 on: September 09, 2007, 12:46:32 PM »
IIRC Leo outputs to 7 gauges ATM with more coming. The Fuel Flow and ALT are in the works now.

Leo makes his living doing this stuff, so his support and development are food and lightbill driven,  :-P ,

not to mention keeping up payments on his Lamborghini  :biggrin:


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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #658 on: September 09, 2007, 12:58:09 PM »
Quote
IIRC Leo outputs to 7 gauges ATM with more coming.

It supports up to 10 gauges and any value in the SM can be used to drive gauges. Of course you would know this Mike if you'd just have connected all that junk I sent you and played around with it some!  :pound:

not to mention keeping up payments on his Lamborghini  :biggrin:

Actually its a BMW...Bus, Metro, Walk. (Metro = subway for you Americans)
« Last Edit: September 09, 2007, 01:01:37 PM by LeoL »

Offline Ka-Bar03

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Re: Red Dog's pit - I finally started
« Reply #659 on: September 09, 2007, 01:15:08 PM »
oh, I still need the 3 small AC's ,thanks for the reminder  :whistle: 8) and  :butt:

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